I need some cheering up quick though… I haven’t eaten in over a day. I tried but just makes me feel sick. right now im on the caffeine (morning) and alcohol (at night) diet
she said "no, never" or "no, not now"?

btw, nobody’s going to be able to cheer you up. if she’s for you then hang in there. but if you’re not for her then, as painful as it is, you should get out.

well I guess its kind of in between no never or just not now.

here is a short summary.

we had some bad times. nothing really that bad (no cheating or anything) and she even admits they werent really bad. but for some reason she cant get over it. Even though our relationship has been great for a while.

she says she cant do it until she takes care of whatever her problem. I found out she has even gone to counselors over this.

She came to the conclusion something is wrong in her head that the only way she could get over this was to just break up and hope that completely ending the relationship. Then getting back together after some amount of time starting a "new" relationship. Of course with the chance that during this break she will decide to just completely end it.

It all sounds really weird to me but I believe what she is saying. I dont think she is just trying to mess with me. But at the same time Im just kind of stuck here by myself waiting…
You are a chump if you believe what she is saying.

What she told you is a load of shit.

fixed.
if thats the case you should really reconsider what youre doing. I think marriage is one of those things you should only do once. No need to rush

I agree. Im more so just taking this a normal break up. Havent talked to her since. If she’s for real about this then its something she has to figure out on her own

good for you. Don’t make the first attempt to contact her either.
get your money back from the ring and take a vacation with buddys
I dont really have the option of vacation or meeting people. I just got back from a vacation so it will be a while before the next. Im also in my last year of gradschool trying to finish up my thesis so I can defend it by the spring (this means 12hr+ workdays, everyday)
Then focus on yourself for awhile. You can think about marriage when you finish school.
1. Sorry
2. Don’t wait around for her
3. Focus on yourself for a while
4. Let her contact you
consider yourself lucky for getting out when you did…as bad as it sucks its better this way than if she said yes and it fell apart shortly thereafter…ask me how i know
You just keep doing your thing, and give her some time to think about it. It might be just the initial shock of your request that she is taken aback. Don’t give up hope yet, the ball is in her court basically, and its quite a big decision as wel, so its ok to give her some decision time. No need to push her, once again give her some time to think about it, and maby within a decent short amount of time ,she’ll turn around.

Whats an appropriate amount of time? I’m still going to just keep up my daily routine anyway but just wondering.

You shouldn’t be thinking at all about any amount of time for her to "think." You need to move forward as if you two are through. Focus on yourself. If she comes back in 4 months you will then have the choice if you want her back or not.

I’m more skeptical in this thread, I think like a lot of women she is intrigued by another man and wants to explore that before "settling" on you.
keep busy

If you find yourself sitting home alone and beginning to think about her, go out and do something. Call some buddys and grab some food, go to a movie, go walk around the mall, etc…

Yeah thats the plan. I was kind of pissed off that I missed my morning workout yesterday. I made up for it today. working 12+ hours a day helps out a lot too.

We dated almost 3 years. The more I think about this the more I realize that I’ve been in a similar situation before with a different girl and I got to be the guy just sitting and waiting. I really hope that is not the case with her though. She has always been a very caring and honest person so I really think she is serious about this.
If I had proposed to my girlfriend and she said no our relationship would probably end right there for good, I really don’t see how a relationship can recover from something like that. Return the ring and move on with your life I say.

My father proposed to my mother 3 times before she said yes and they had been dating over 2 years already. She said, "What is the rush? I’m not going anywhere." On the 4th asking she finally said yes and 35+ years later they are still together

It depends why she says no.

I agree in certain situations it could end up fine, but this doesn’t sound like one of them. I do find it odd that she said she wasn’t going anywhere, but didn’t want to get engaged though.

Because not everyone feels engagement and marriage are something that have to happen. They were happy not engaged and just dating. They also were (like the TS) finishing school/important jobs and there was no rush. They finally decided it’d be best to get married when they had some money saved.

why are you giving him false sense of hope?

You have to assume the worst in these types of situations or its just going to prolong the pain and confuse him more and possibly have him ruin the situation when he calls and talks and does whatever.

If someone told me straight out that my girl wasn’t coming back it would have helped a great deal.

Let me give you some advice that your feelings are going to make you ignore:

Never, EVER, believe what a woman tells you. Always, ALWAYS believe what she does to you. Her actions speak much louder than any of the shit that comes out of her mouth.

Do you really want to be with a woman who has these issues? Do you really believe that what she is telling you means that you have a healthy foundation with which to build a marriage? Do you really believe that these serious issues can be resolved in a matter of months?

First of all, it takes YEARS for some people to resolve issues like this (whatever they are, they are serious enough to make her not commit to you).

Honestly? I think she is just using you as a placeholder and she has low interest in you and is hoping something better comes along before the pressures of society forces her to settle with you.

Get out of this now and move on to a woman who is willing to treat you right and give you the commitment you deserve.

In the meantime, focus on your flaws and try to correct them.
I agree mainly with what everyone has said here.

But, can you explain what "her problem" might be?
I don’t know if she’s told you in great detail but that could be a really clear indicator of whether there’s a future or not.

Yeah I’ve been meaning to do that but I’ve been keeping myself busy.

Now that I look back I pretty much got by in the relationship showing her the minimum amount of love. Enough to keep the relationship going but I later learned that it really bothered her. This was for maybe the last two years. Of course I did nice things for her but I will agree I could have done more.

We almost broke up about 6 months ago over this. She explained it to me and like I said after thinking about it I can agree with her. Since then I really made the effort to change things and even she says things have been great since then.

A couple of months ago we some how got to talking about getting married and I told her that was something I really wanted. (up until now I had pretty much refused to talk about this). So she was very happy. She told all her friends, parents, and we even looked at rings a few times.

We had a talk around a month ago as she said that she really want to get married but that it would be nice if I wait to ask her for a little while so she could get close to finishing school (this means 6-12months) but that it was up to me when i do it.

We are both in gradschool so we are pretty much at our stress limit at all times. I graduate in about 9 months and she has another year or so. She wanted to wait since she said that the stress of planning a wedding would be too much to when she was just starting gradschool.

So I managed to wait about a month… which may have been a bad thing but she said she was planning on telling me about her break up idea last weekend anyway.

Her reasoning is that for some reason she cant get past the times that I didnt show her enough love. Even though she admits that the last 6 months or so have been the happiest she has ever been.

She talked to friends about this and went to a few counselors over this and came up with her idea that if she totally break off the relationship and then we get back together she will be able to forget.

Thats the short story. I’m still not really sure if I buy it but in the mean time Im just doing my own thing.

In a nutshell: Low interest in you.

Probably saying shit so she doesn’t hurt you.
I’d say her fear is pretty valid honestly. The whole time of engagement and right before engagement is always very exciting. They say women are their happiest when engaged and men tend to be very excited about the engagement to the point that they forget any problems the couple has. What your gf is thinking right now is "what if the second we get married he gives up on me?" To be honest, I’d probably feel the same way she does. I certainly wouldn’t want to convince myself I was about to make a lifetime commitment to a guy who couldn’t even shower me with love during the first few years of us dating.

Not trying to rain on your parade, just giving you another woman’s opinion on what she could be thinking. Though if it were me I have absolutely no agreement to the idea of breaking up just to try and get back together later as if it would solve anything. To me that’s just another way of saying, "Let’s be single. I’ll date a few guys and see what they are like. If I don’t feel anything like I do with ______ then I’ll know our relationship is the one."

Thanks I appreciate your view. I agree that I think this is a bad way to do this if in fact she is really serious about it. I could understand saying "no we need to wait longer" so that she could see if my new attitude is going to last.

To be honest I always loved her a lot. She was always saying how great of a girlfriend she was because she was so low maintenance which is really probably what started the whole thing. And I was always worried that if I do really nice stuff for her early on she was going to start to expect that from me all the time.

Had she brought this issue up a longtime ago we probably wouldnt be in this situation though

dawt.

it might be over, it might not.

if she’s genuinely honest, she’s doing the best thing for both of you as a whole.

She can focus on herself, and you do the same. If when she gets over it she decides ‘well let’s try this again’ – she’ll get ahold of you. Until that day happens, just keep movin forward…so if it never does – you’ll never have to stop and start over the moving on process.
I got this email from her today this morning.

I’m sorry I wasn’t able to talk to you yesterday. It was completely insane
and busy. I realize I’ve fallen behind in a lot of things for classes and
am kinda freakin out right now. I hope that you are doing relatively
ok.Today is going to be another crazy day but I will seriously try to call
you. I want you to know that I’m not like pushing you away or whatever, I
just am so freaking busy right now that yeah – I dono – I have to get ready
for class now but I’ll try to talk to you later.

Now what I dont think im replying to it. But I guess I would answer if she calls

This is good. Don’t reply. Let her call you.

The fact that she is reaching out to contact you shows she cares and I’m sure she’s also partly worried that you aren’t trying to contact you every second. If she finally contacts you and says something along the lines of "why haven’t you called?" just very calmly (make sure you say it calmly and non-chalant) say you wanted to give her the space she asked for.

and then, because she’s so oblivious to your feelings, say "…………….and i think we need some time apart" and decide you’re not going to contact her or reply to her attempts to contact you for at least two weeks.

This almost seems counter productive but I think its a good idea.

I’m trying to understand the effect of doing this from her point of view. Maybe the point is to show her that I’m not just going to be one of those emotional support guys that to wait at the sidelines?

I also forgot to add to the story that we did spent nearly a whole day together after we broke up. I was staying at her place for the weekend when we broke up(I live 150miles away while in school) and I already had a few drinks that night so she wouldnt let me leave although I did try.

The next day we talked a lot and I found out that part of her worries were that I just changed so quickly and she didnt understand why or if it would last which is understandable.

I had a good explanation for why I changed so quickly and she said that really changed her though on the whole situation. She said that she was hopeful that this break idea would work but not to confidant (maybe a 5 out of 10 chance) but after I talked to her more she was a lot more hopeful (more like 7-8 out of 10). But who knows.

Wow, so I was right

Yep. Aren’t you always?

Yes, this is true….. I’m kidding. But I am a little shocked that she really confirmed that is was about your affection’s changing or worrying that they will change. Honestly though I don’t know how to play this. Ultimately it’s your life. Part of me thinks taking 2 weeks from her would be good for you…but at the same time if you want to be with her it doesn’t really equate that you would stay away from her when her main concern if how you feel about her.

In other words part of me thinks you’d be fine doing what you are doing now. Focusing mainly on yourself, giving her space and letting her contact you, but making sure she knows you aren’t contacting because you respect her wishes to have space and you are there for her

I talked to another girl today and she had the same conclusion. That I should give space but that at the same time I should make sure the she knows that its not because I dont love her anymore.

Her suggestion was dont talk to her but at the same time try and do something nice for her to show that I still do care like send some flowers to her place. sounds like a good idea to me..

I agree, I think that’s a nice idea. If she is stressed about school that’s a very sweet gesture.
Well she called just called and we talked for an hour or so. She still said that she is hopeful that this can work but yet still has doubts. She said that yesterday she felt really happy because she finally broke up with me since it has been something that has been worrying her for a while. But that its probably just because it let a lot of stress off her mind. She tends to do this where she will be really happy one day then sad the next.

She said that she would like to come spend the weekend with me in two weeks and I agreed.

I brought up the idea of not talking anymore if she though it would help her do this and that maybe we dont talk until I see her in two weeks. She said she doesnt know if she could go that long but maybe in a few days. She is going to try to not talk to me for two weeks but said she might call if she feels that she is ready to.

So thats the plan. I’m just going to try and somehow keep my mind off her for the next two weeks.

that doesnt sound so good. if her reaction is to feel good that she finally broke up with you, that means shes not actually happy when she is with you. and if thats the case, you should not be wanting her to come back. you want to be with (and marry) someone who feels awesome with you.

i’m hoping you wrote it out wrong, or mis-quoted her, but if thats what she actually said, i think thats a bad sign

I didnt look into it too much. She did admit that is probably just the stress of trying to figure out if she wanted to break up or not. And that finally making a decision either way took all that stress away.

She also tends to that. She has days where she is really happy then the next day she gets really depressed. (she is on meds for this but still happens)

Also, I dont know it it helps or not but she is a psychologist so I think she tends to really think about things. Maybe to much so sometimes.

But anyway I did flat out ask her if this is just over for good. That if she had already made up her mind it would be much easier to just do it now. And she said that it is not over and she still want to try and make this work.

I’m probably being too optimistic though..

Wait so this other girl said don’t talk to her but send her flowers and give her more attention? I guess proposing to her showed you didn’t care at all

It kinda sounds like she wants the best of both worlds and she’s trying to keep her options open right now in case she doesn’t find someone better she’ll have a fall back. If it were me I’d leave her and tell her when you decide what you want come talk to me but I can’t promise I’ll take you back. I know its hard but be strong man there are plenty of other women that won’t jerk you around.

I completely agree.

You are putting the ball in her court and telling her that it’s ok for her to treat you the way that she is.

Do you honestly like just being someone who she goes to when she only wants to?

What about your feelings throughout this whole thing? What about all of the stress that this situation is causing YOU?

She doesn’t give a fuck.

You’re giving her all of the power and letting her control the entire thing and you’re doing nothing but laying down like a doormat and letting her treat you like shit.

Get ahold of yourself.

This is a perfect way to handle it.

Just because she has some shit to figure out doesn’t mean you have to lay down and pay for it as well.

True, and also avoid that "I am not ready yet" bullshit excuse.
I’d almost guarantee if you found the time to meet other people and start dating and SOMEHOW she finds out you’re doing this…. she’ll want you back in a heart beat.

Eh, I don’t know. I do believe that she could be interested in other men, but maybe she DOES have some psychological issues she needs to work out. Not knowing those issues makes it difficult to for me to judge but if she’s seeing therapists she obviously has a lot going on in her head at the moment.

Just hang in there. Do your daily routine, don’t try to contact her, just let her know that you love her and you’ll be there if she changes her mind. If she does just want to be a whore and explore other men, then well, at least you didn’t marry the wrong girl. But if she does want to work on herself first, then give her time.
all right im drunk but fuck! i cant do this… I just wish I had a reason to hate her like my other ex. but she has helped me more in life than anyone else i know… i cant stop thinking about how i fucked this up so much. I still havent called her yet though…

my most recent ex set the bar pretty high when it comes to "showering me with love." i have settled for much much MUCH less in previous relationships, etc, and i sure as hell won’t do that again.

you didn’t give us any examples as to what you’ve done for her, so i’m just taking your word on that.

i don’t understand how breaking up with you and starting over one day will help this situation. is this the only issue between the two of you? is it possible that there’s something else that’s bothering her?

if showing your love and affection is the only issue at hand, i think staying together and working through this would be the better solution than breaking up. in fact, if it were me, i would’ve brought up the idea about looking into couples counseling. communication is the most important thing in a relationship, and i think that every couple could benefit from counseling.

actions speak louder than words, regardless of what sex you are!

agreed. always turn a negative situation into a positive one in your life. there’s always a lesson to be learned.

recently i planned and got us a free trip to hawaii that we took in august. her parents got us the hotel. i got us the tickets for free. we live about 150miles apart while in school but she did live with me this summer. part of this is that in the summer when she lived with me I didnt spent enough time with her. I had to spend a lot of long hours at school working but honestly if I could do this again I wouldnt have even gone to gradschool

I try and send her flowers and random messages as often as i can. everytime i drive down there to see her I try and do something nice for her. (bring her a small gift or just make her a nice dinner).

i think part of it is that she doesnt realize that being a gradstudent means insane stress and that ive managed to make time to talk on the phone to her every night and to see her every weekend. to do this means I put in 60+ hours of work mon-fri. So that i can just drive down to see her and spend a whole weekend just hanging out. She is just starting her first semester of gradschool right now so she is starting to understand that.

wow… you sound like a good boyfriend, imo…

i’ve been in a few ldr’s, and the distance was 10x greater than that of you and your gf, so i can relate. i think you’re doing a fine job. if this is more than what you’ve been doing in the past, then you definitely need to keep this up.

with that said, your gf needs to be a little more understanding and realize that your grad school studies come first. she should be proud of you, not hold it over your head!
Heres a small update:

She ended up calling me yesterday and we talked for a few minuets nothing serious just small talk. It was kind of weird and awkward since we have pretty much talked everyday since we met about 3 years ago. Then just out of no where no talking for a week or so.

We have talked a few times in the last day and I dont even try and ask her to talk about US. I did notice that she got jealous when I told her something that a girl from school said to me (the ex doesnt like this girl for some reason).

Guess I will just have to see how it goes this weekend.

I’m not exactly sure why she is coming to visit me (its a 3 hr drive). I hope its to try and work this out with me. But just to be safe I already packed all her crap she left at my apartment for her.

Well, it kinda sounds like typical behavior of somebody who has another person she’s talking to and is feeling him out while leaving you on the string.

It’s likely that she could be making the drive up to break up with you.

That’s worst case scenario.

agreed. weekend’s over. i’m dying for news
Man, walk away. If it is meant to be, she will come back to you. My fiancee and I broke up a year and a half ago for similar reasons. I spent months trying to get her back, a year actually. Right when I was about to give up, she came back to me. Mind you, I did date other people in the meantime. If she comes back to you, then you guys were meant to be. Otherwise let her go.
Well she stayed at my place the whole weekend and it went pretty well. Not as good as it could have been but oh well. She pretty much acted as if she was still dating me whole weekend so it was cool but kinda weird too.

She got to my place on Friday and we went out for dinner and drinks. Went back to my place and talked a lot and watched some movies. She is still sticking to her original story that she really wants it to work out with me. She told me that since we broke up she has been happy. And that she needs to figure out why she is happy not being with me. She said that she does not think its because I’m gone but more so because the stress of the whole situation is gone somewhat.

We did pretty much the same thing on Saturday. Out to eat, some drinks, then went back to my place and finally has some amazingly good break up sex. Her friend picked her up on Sunday and I guess she was crying a lot on the ride home.

After she left I went and got my money back for the ring. Then went out and got a bunch of new clothes and a new ipod to distract me for a while.
Right now we don’t really have any plans on seeing each other for a while. I might be staying at her place for the weekend when I go visit family for thanksgiving.

She sounded really serious about the whole break up and then get back together thing still. But I’m not really counting on it. I’m going to take viper’s advise and work on being happy with myself for now and if at some point in the future she decides to come back then I’ll deal with it then.
She said she has been HAPPY since she broke up with you…LMAO cut off all contact with her, she’s playing you like drum!
I’m glad you got the money back for the ring It sounds like you are doing really well considering you are both not together. Maybe this time apart has kind of made you realize you can live without her. I think your idea to just live for yourself is a good plan
You have to be the man and make the final decision to break up and stick with it. She’s torn between wanting to break up with you and not wanting to be alone. You don’t need to stop talking to her but it’s a good idea not to visit too often. Say "It’s not meant to be, but I’ll recover."

Yeah I’m doing alright. It might be the drugs though.. I went to the Dr last week for something totally unrelated and left with some depression drugs. I’ve only been on them a week but maybe they are kicking in..

I just plan on concentrating on myself. The last really hard break up I had I ended up working out a lot more and lost 60lbs. I’ll have to think of something to improve upon for myself for this break up.

good for you.

i totally agree with everyone. you should concentrate on yourself. if i were you, i wouldn’t even think about the thought of you two getting back together. i’m not saying you have to jump into a new relationship if/when that presents itself, but just don’t have thoughts about her on the front burner. for the record, i’m not totally discounting the idea, but actions speak louder than words! if she were into you, wouldn’t she make more of an effort to fix all her issues?

maybe i’m the only one, but i was kinda when i read the post about still seeing each other/hanging out. it seems like she’s getting the better end of the deal, imo. she’s not attached to you, still gets to talk/hang out with you, and you two recently had sex. either she wants to break up with you or she doesn’t. seems like she’s a little bit of a committment phobe.
The more I reflect on this situation the more I realize that she messed up plenty of things that led to this. There was a thread in the main forum about crazy girlfriends and after reading other peoples stories I noticed that my ex would fit right in there.

I agree though that even now if she still wanted to work stuff out she would be making the effort. I haven’t heard from her in like 3 days except a text message or two. I’m not counting on anything right now. I already boxed up all the pictures and anything that reminds me of her.

I’ve been keeping myself very busy which is also helping me get over this. Put in a few 15 hour work days in the last two weeks and went out drinking with friends a few other days. Right now I’m actually feeling pretty good.

Good shit bro.

Sounds like you’re taking off the rose colored glasses and seeing your relationship for what it really was, which generally happens once you break up and have space for yourself.

This is good because you need to realize that it’s not right for her to try to dick you around, but it’s also not right that you allow yourself to be dicked around.

it seems as though she’s happy with the way things are right now. i’m not saying that it needs to [or should] be "your way or the highway," but she needs to make more of an effort. in fact, if she cared about you and deep down wanted to be with you, she would make more of an effort.

i’d say be honest with her and let it go.
I have another update:
Just a little more background on her first. She is in gradschool for psychology which involves her doing a lot of counseling of other people but also means she has to get counseled by other psychology gradstudents a lot too.

I got a weird text message from her yesterday. Just when I though she didn’t care at all and I was getting over her. It said “I probably shouldn’t tell you this but I really love you and you’re such a great person.”

We ended up talking over my lunch break for a while. I guess she had been getting counseled earlier that day and through that process realized that she really wanted to be with me. She said that out of all her friends she realized that I am the only person that has always been there for her and the only person she can really trust. She also said she is totally not happy anymore at all.

She also realized that one of the big problems of our relationship wasn’t that I didn’t show her enough love (that is still part of it) but that she didn’t tell me when things bothered her. She pretty much said that she never wanted to bother me with her feelings because she thought I would get mad at her. So we came to the conclusion that the reason I thought everything in the relationship was great is because she was hiding any problems she had and acted like everything was great until the little problems she had turned into huge ones.

Anyway, we are still not together. She said she still needs to deal with other issues she has and I’m becoming quite content with being single for now anyway (the attention I’m getting from girls right now is great).

I believe in marriage etc but I think it should be for the right reasons and not just from the perception that ‘marriage will fix things – we’ll be together and everything will be okay’ (to the original poster, I’m not alluding that you think this way, just saying in general). If she has issues she needs to deal with them first. See how it goes, I mean if she says she still loves you and may still want to be with you, don’t let her go just yet.

Current boy is ready for marriage and seems to think everything will be okay if we do. I’ve explicitly said that we have a lot of issues we need to deal with first before we even think about going down that path. Doesn’t mean I want anyone else, nor does it mean I don’t love him. It just means that marriage is that important to me that I want to think long and hard about it first because I really only want to get married once…

She thinks a lot like you do.. I know that she really wants to make sure that she only get married once. I think that part of why she wants to make sure that she knows why she acted the way that she did.
So just a little up date in case anyone is still reading this crap.

I called her up yesterday and told her I was just sick of her back and forth shit between telling me she really loves me one day then hates me the next. I said I was sick of her fucking with my head and I told her I don’t want to talk to her anymore. I said maybe in a few months we can see if we want to talk but until then I dont want to hear from her. She freaked out and started crying a lot. I was pretty cool about the whole thing and didnt even cry.
good move. whatever happens, this will move things forward.

remember, whatever happens is for the best. It always is.
If this helps her focus and you get married, great. If she decides to break it off, that’s also great.

The only bad things are stasis and ignorance.
Update on her next move.

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I’m broke. Worst financial situation i’ve ever been in. I don’t get along with my mom for the most part but I live with her and my step dad while in school which, barring me finding a better job soon, means i’ll get done in Feb. of 09. I’m seeing a psychiatrist for the first time in my life on Tuesday.

As i’ve posted in here before, I have anger management issues, they are up and down. When im broke I hate my life, when I have money im happy. Even then I have a short fuse, i’ve gotten in more fights than I ever wanted to get into.

I feel like im depressed right now. Seems like nothing has an effect on me. Florida loses, whatever. My bank goes into negative this past weekend because I was lied to, I got pissed off for an hour and was back to whatever.

I’ve seen people on here talk about leaving the country or whatever to start over and I got to thinking about it. I know someone that lives in Canada and said I could come and live with them. Is a female. I just figured, if I have the chance, i’ll pack up, head to canada no matter how much people claim it sucks, an throw the peace sign to Atlanta and United States as a whole. New phone number, new country, new address, find new friends….start over. Right now i’m in a never ending battle working jobs I hate, being around people that lie to me non stop, friends I don’t actually think care. I just want to hit the re-start button. I’ve also SERIOUSLY considered suicide the past 2 weeks. I have plenty of drugs at my disposal.

So, OG is looking for advice. I think the most excited and happy I get right now, is when I think about leaving everyone and everything behind and starting over.

BTW, Im in school for massage therapy, as I was originally planning on going to college but im in such debt I figure that may be out of the question. I can make money rather quickly anywhere knowing what I know and have been trained so it’s not like it would take me long to make money no matter where I move IMHO.

I’d finish school first.

Secondly, will moving change your circumstances? I know your feeling, as I’ve felt this way before, back when my life was in shambles. The thing is, moving won’t fix anything for you, and can likely increase your problems.

You need to take an inventory of your life, figure out what’s missing, and take steps to address them.

One step at a time, ignore the rest which you can’t do anything about, and before you know it things will be better.

If you have major time sinks, such as WoW or whatnot, I highly recommend quitting them or at least suspending them until things are better.
Finish school and then move. Keep in mind that the things that plague you here probably will anywhere else (esp moving somewhere so similar to the US). But a change in scenery can help.
Nothing puts my mind back on track better than getting out of this place for a bit.

well its not like anything bogs me down.

I work four 10 hour shifts a week monday through thursday.

I have school at night from 7 to 10 tuesday to thursday and clinic 2 times a week on sunday in the afternoon.

Maybe 2….3 times a week I will stay at my best friends apartment 20 minutes from here because we go out on the weekends and he doesnt drive, but his brother usually pays for all the alcohol, gas, or entry fee for me being the most sober of the bunch. I enjoy dancing and doing that sort of thing but now that looks rather dead because the club that I have been going to for a year has changed their DJ around and the music and its just gotten bad. Not many good clubs in Atlanta and im not really a bar guy.

I play NCAA 2009 on XBox 360 maybe 2…3 days at the most…a week for 1,…MAYBE 2 hours a day.

So it’s not like im doing that a lot.

I’ve taken my own anger management "course" multiple times. Each time I feel like im making large improvements but something will eventually happen that sends me back like 3 years. Right now I feel about as hateful as I did 4 years ago when i was near my worst. The only real difference is I can control my temper for the most part, unless you really tick me off.

I’ve gone back and forth with myself for the last 2 years about if I want to stay in Atlanta or not. Don’t like the traffic, don’t like the amount of people moving here, don’t care for the weather and the lack of rain that forces water shortage laws to go in effect. We have the most ridiculous laws on gas/oil that has forced the city into a state of mayhem right now because of the shortages in the city.

Like I said, obviously my temper will follow me. But i’m a bluntly honest and straight forward person. There really isn’t a person I would bite my tongue around at any given time, which hurts me, but at the same time, I really don’t lie to people. But, I feel….or seem….to be a giant target for people to let off their utter bullshit to. I’m also a failure with women lately, 3 dates in a month, 3 failures. This was before my financial crisis this past weekend.

So I just feel as if a complete scenery and state change would do me better. Make new friends, start over. It’s hard to work on my anger management and temper right now because it seems like that is what everyone around my expects. If im being nice to people and im not being an asshole than people think something is wrong with me, I basically resort back to it all because its like thats what people expect out of me. I need new friends, people that expect me to be nice and NOT happy when im an asshole.

but since YOU are going then the problems YOU have are going to go with YOU.

running isn’t going to leave them behind.

fix yourself before you do anything else.

so what did the psych say?
shit i expected. it was actually a social worker, basically the same thing to me except she cant give the drugs i probably need.

she made a good point, dont latch onto the money and live my entire life around it. but its hard when you’re 3 weeks late on a car payment and its getting close to repo time, just lost a job, and dont have money for gas to go look for another job.

i think when i do find a job, ill be alright. hopefully. i need to make a fake server related resume tonight

and as far as me considering suicide last week, she had a interesting way of making me look at my life next time i think like that and her idea works….so far

good luck w/ everything

ill need it
I don’t know why but i have this strange feeling you should try living in France for a while. The people over there are enjoyers of life, although still hard work needs to be done to get your life in order there, i feel you might be a lot more happy in Europe. But anyway for your anger issues i would try the second thought thing. When your first thought is, ‘i wanna kill that person’, you stop. And then put a second thought ‘negativity leads to nowhere, so why should i get angry? Its useless’ , basically the point is that you push the foot in a conditioned way on the brakes in your brain every time you have an anger attack and turn the right cheek instead of getting into a fight, you’ll steer away from them, just walking away and don’t want to get involved. That’s a much better approuch then what you usually do, namely putting oil on the fire, making things rather more bad then good.

Suicide is not a way how you deal in a mature way with problems. Asking for help as you did now is a better and mature way, anti-depressants are only symptom supressors, and not problem solvers. You want to deal with the root causes of your problems, otherwhise they just keep coming back. Simular counts for going abroad, although it is indeed true that a different location can mean different better/worse oppertunities. You have to understand that your troubles travel along with you, the reason: Its how you approuch things in life that matters. A succesfull approuch is constituated in its behaviour. If i give a smack into the face of a police officer, im bound to get kicked to the ground and arrested. If i cooperate, i will face a better convo and walk away. So its just a silly example to emphasize how one action createds a reaction that is unsuccesful, and in the second one a reaction that is succesful.

Every action has consequenses, you have to make sure that you stay calm and reap positive consequenses for yourself always remember that.

Next is that you shouldn’t rely on people, what love will you think to receive from hugging thorn bushes? Especially when you are in a selfish enviroment, you’d better beware not to automatically accept everybody’s ideas, because big chances are that they are only out there to forfill their own lives, not to seldom at the cost of walking over other people’s dead bodies. Remember trust is something to be earned over time, don’t give it all automatically, let them work for it.
i dont give out trust easily. like i told the social worker, my problem is i have unrealistic expectations from everyone i meet. so im working on that.

the problem im running into now, is this. i already have someone to stay with in canada. room and all.

im in massage therapy school in georgia, i have until february when im planned to graduate.

the issue is these hours are not transferable. even in the province id be staying in, they dont have massage regulations to practice privately, but soon, from my research, they will have a nationwide certification that requires 2000 hours. my training will net me 750 hours. but right now, it doesnt matter. and in georgia you have to renew every so often and so forth and so on.

so a side of me says quit and head to canada now. which i cant do anyways because i dont have the money to even make the drive.

the logical side of me says to stick it out, finish the school (if i can, im so financially fucked i havent made a payment in 3 months). that way if this doesnt work out in canada and i head back to atlanta i have something to fall on. then of course, as im extremely analytical, the other side of me says if i succeed and everythin between us goes well in canada, all that time i spent here at the school and waiting is useless.

and until she told me i can stay with her, i could have moved to california and been happy. i guess i just have this mindset about 20 years of failure in georgia. when im on vacation, im happy. of course i am, its vacation. but its like, the minute i hit the georgia borderline heading back to atlanta, i get hateful again. i dont feel that way if im still in florida or tennessee, but once i hit georgia, angry. its like i know my life full of financial failure, bullshitting friends, etc…etc…is just waiting for me.

its why i want a new place to start over. start clean. talking to her, seems to me i will like canada. right now, my 2 emergency room visits are owning me. my credit is bad. im sick a lot because i cant afford to get extended surgery and shit done on my to fix my sinus problems. in canada, health insurance is dirt ass cheap. cost of living is cheap. right now, it fits what i need and ive never had a problem adapting to new places. like i told her, i can stay at a friends house, i never complain. too noisy? i dont care. too dirty, ill clean the bitch up . my ability to open up to people and make friends is actually a lot easier than you might expect considering some of the threads ive made on here, just right now, ive closed that off because i know i wont be around for much longer.

what do YOU do for your friends that they dont do for you? you always complain about how everyone is fake and shit but is it really them being fake or BSing you or is it your unreasonable expectations??

if you dont call ppl, go see them, talk with them…why would they do the same for you???

i consider us friends but i only hear from you when you need something….but that does not bother me…bc well im here and if u wanna hang out you will call… i invite you over every so often you chose not to come over…so i what to tell you man but moving is a temporary solution to a fucked up problem…

i think by seeing someone is a step in the right direction… good luck and if u wanna talk give me a call…

i call most of my friends when i want to hang out. not a big talker on the phone unless im drunk

like saturday

like with ATL crew, I hate driving some of the lengths i drive to hang out with people when all of ATL crew knows i have little money, but no one is willing to come to a meet ITP or closer to OUR area. Its always that kennessaw area. im willing to come to the next party you throw at your house regardless.

and honestly man, ive wanted to move out of atlanta for the past 4 years like REALLY badly. it goes back and forth, but in reality, i considered moving to florida with some OTers back 4 or so years ago before i was financially fucked.

seems to run in my family

my mom was born in connecticut, ditched it right when she graduated high school, dad left the north when he got done with college, my step dad headed south with no idea of where he was going when he graduated college in ohio.

they both feel like a scene chance is necassary. i havent talked to my dad about it yet because i dont want to talk to him abot it over the phone.

i know im not going to run from my anger issues, that shit will follow me around regardless until i target in on killing as much of it as i can. i realize that 100%. i just want a fresh start. i cant afford my own place here in atlanta. i can’t afford to split rent right now with anyone in atlanta. shit id struggle if i lived with 3 other people right now because of my debt building up.

of course, my debt will follow me, but at the same time, im not going to have to pitch in on rent for a few months up north until i get my feet settled. cost of living is cheaper. their gas is cheaper (for now). i have a better oppurtunity up north to turn my financial situation around as well as work on my attitude away from a city ive disliked being in for as long as i can remember, but BIG time disliked for the past 4 years.

I ask myself though, and im sure everyone does, outside of my family, who in the fuck would honestly miss me when i leave?

my friend ray and his brother, i hear from neither of them for weeks until one of us wants to go to hole in the wall and then ill get a phone call. ill call ray every other week but the convo is short lived as shit. 2 minutes max it seems unless football is on. so ive gone back on texting him only because we dont talk much outside of football and females.

all the people in the club that enjoy seeing my up on stage dancing, i know none of their names, they dont know mind. thats my fault, and theirs because neither of us have put the care into asking. so i dont cry over that, but it leads me back to wondering, if they never saw me again, would they realize i was gone?

i say no, a lot. but once again, i think a lot of it is because i have unrealistic expectations of other people that i NEED to work on. It just seems difficult when i live with people ive wanted to move away from for a year in a city i dont like living in.
.

NP man and i knew that what i said in the thread was kind of harsh but i was being honest with you just like i always have been with you.

no we’re not best friends but we are friends and if you need something or just want to chill i am here for you man.

i got love for ya you ornery bastard. as for this weekend i will know by the end of the day whether or not im going to Alabama for my dads 50th birthday to take him fishing. i will address the post in the asylum when i get to work and have time.

if i end up staying here this weekend ill watch the game with you amanda/ayden permitting.

I am going to post this in the asylum bc i think it shows growth and some insight into your situation and i think the other posters in that sub forum could benefit from knowing what you said in this pm.

seriously.

a change of scenery isn’t always bad but your problems will follow.

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Anyway, I’ve been dating my girlfriend for about 6 months. She had a job when we first met, but then she quit after about 2 months and she has been unemployed ever since. Whenever we go out, I always pay for everything, ALWAYS. She bought me a ticket once to go see a car show, which was only like $35 dollars. I have probably spent over $800 on her the last 6 months. We’ve gone to plenty of shows, seen movies, out to eat, we’ve done fun activities, I paid for it all.

This is such bullshit. She is always whining about how she never has money, yet she has gone to like 4-5 concerts with her friends, gone on out of state trips with her friends, and she smokes weed. I asked her how the hell she is paying for all that crap if she never has any money. She says that her friends smoke her down for free, and her dad gives her money when she is going somewhere. WTF?

Her parents have recently gotten divorced, so she says she has been depressed and that’s why her friends have been smoking her down for free. 2 days ago i told her that she is a fucking bum and that she needs to get a job because i’m getting sick of it (I got really angry because she was at my house and she was worried that she doesn’t have enough gas to get back home, RIDICULOUS)

I really love her, we get along sooo great and she love me too, but I don’t like dating someone who gets stoned a lot and sits around not doing shit all day. What should I do? Should I give her some time to get over her parents divorce? She gets really sad and says that she feels really abandoned because her mom just up and ditched her family, leaving her to do all of the cleaning and everything (her brother and father are slobs). I feel bad for her, but at the same time I keep encouraging her to show some strength, get over it already, and take care of her own life.
Keep dating her but stop paying for her.

And also stop keeping track of how much money you’ve spent on her (which will greatly decrease because you’re done paying for her).

You not paying for her has nothing to do with her being unemployed (ie. it’s not to motivate her to get a job), but it’s because it’s not the 50s anymore and women are able to get jobs.

Also, you’re not rewarding her (by paying for her) for having a pussy.

How do you know she’s dating you for you and not for your money?

Dude. You’ve only been with her 6 months. Just get out now, find a woman with a job, who doesn’t smoke, and doesn’t have emotional issues to deal with.

This shit is not worth it at all…and come on man, you’ve given her 4 months to get a job. You may be able to overlook this now, and a little longer if you stop paying for her, but eventually, you’re going to have to ask yourself "is it worth it to stay in a relationship with a financially irresponsible person?"

And seriously, think about this. If you stop paying for her…what the hell are you guys gonna do? You’ll be dating a girl who can’t go out and do anything because she has NO money. Now, I’m a big believer in doing stuff that is free or low cost, but it’s normal to go out and do things that occasionally cost money.

Also, from your post, you sound like you’ve reached a point where it’s bothering you…so why continue to let it bother you?

She can get back to you when she gets her life in order. It’s not your job to fix her, especially after only dating for 6 months.
I dated a girl that moved in with her sister and bummed around for the longest time. She didn’t have a steady job (worked for her Dad doing small work-at-home stuff) and never had any money to pay for anything. Her mom paid for her car/insurance and the little money she got from her Dad she put toward gas. It was really annoying to wake up every day at 6 am to go to work and have her sleep in till noon then send me a "good morning" text when I had already been up for 6 hours. She didn’t seem to care at all.

I eventually helped her find a job when she had three bills due all at once and needed like 400 bucks to pay it all off and had ZERO cash. She stayed working for a while till she decided to move across the country (but we had broken up by then).

I agree with MattThom01. Don’t waste your life with a relationship like this. Work is good for people. People that don’t work don’t deserve much from life but usually bitch about it anyway.
Falconer- I know she isn’t using me for money. She has never asked me for money or asked me to take her somewhere. I am always the one suggesting that we go out and do something.

rkbergman- I know what you mean with those annoying "good morning" texts she sends you after she finally wakes up. There have been sooo many nights were we have stayed up all night together, then in the morning I just get dressed and go to work without any sleep at all. Then she texts me "good morning babe" at like 1 pm after I’ve already been working since 8am. It’s like "I hope you enjoyed your wonderful sleep".

Thanks everyone. I think i’m going to mix all of your advice together and

1. Stop paying for her and taking her out
2. Explain to her what I feel
3. Giver her like 1 more month to get her shit together
4. If I notice that she is just repeating her same patterns and still making the dumb excuses then I will wish her good luck and tell her that she can get back to me when she gets her life in order.
If she wants to start finding a job take her to

Thats how I found a job for myself and for her and it has helped a ton of friends as well

If she doesn’t have to ask why would she? Look if she is broke but doesn’t need money she isn’t going to get money. Find a more independent person if independence matters to you.
I’d dump her – to be quiet frank about it.

I have no problem playing the "man" role and paying for everything – but if we’re playing gender rolls, she’d need to play hers too.

She just sounds like a lazy woman to me – I honestly would escape now. Unless like i stated before – she makes up for all the money and time spent putting up with it and I don’t mean with sex. I mean with affection, appreciation and doing her part in the relationship.
yeah so I talked with her about this. I told her that she seems lazy and that I won’t wait for her much longer to get her shit together. She got very defensive saying that she is trying he hardest, and then she of coarse referred to her parents divorce as a big reason why things are so hard on her right now. We talked a little bit more about it, and the next day she told me she will be doing babysitting this weekend and that she will take me out afterward. I guess she got the message.
ooh…babysitting.

That’s what, a weekend? What’s her plan for the future past that?

My advice is to stop caretaking and if you really want to change this relationship, carve out the role you believe you want.

We’ll see if that’s what she wants too. My guess is that she may not.

But you already know that which is why you’ve played your role as you have till now.

Seriously..this girl sounds like my ex. Whenever she found a good job, her emotions got in the way and she quit. Always something to do with her not being able to take her boss’ shit or coworkers or whatever.

Anytime I would try to tell her that’s it’s never smart to quit before finding a new job, she pulls her rough childhood card. EVERY FUCKIN TIME. How her deadbeat dad made her this way and blah blah blah.

I basically paid for everything for years. There was always an excuse for not having enough money to pay for bills. But yet I saw her getting her nails done, hair done, eyebrows waxed. And whenever I confronted her about it she got defensive saying how she’s never able to pamper herself etc. etc.

The only reason I stayed with her so long was because we had a kid together. Been broken up with her for 5 happy years now. I check up on her from time to time and she still hasn’t changed. It’s been 10 years since I’ve known her.

So I say give her an ultimatum and if she can’t support herself soon, that’s it…run for the hills.

This dude is giving sound advice. Really man some people won’t pay for themselves if they don’t have too. Independence is a pretty good trait if you ask me.

Generally speaking, the only time a dude should pay for a girl IMO is when…

1) She’s your wife
or
2) She’s your fiance
or
3) You guys split the bill or whatever else it may be.
or
4) You guys switch off paying for each other
or
5) You want to
My estranged wife is exactly the same way (divorce in two weeks). She’s "unemployed" (as in, couch potato) and gets her hair done while my son wears pants from Wal-Mart with a hole in it.

Run, don’t walk!
Gotta be careful with women like this.. trust me im seeing it 1st hand..

Living with my GF of 2 years.. and we got a place together , in a nicer part of town and more room.. so far she hasnt paid a dollar in rent , due to whatever excuse she can come up with at the time. Now i make a decent wage , but coming up with $1300 bucks on short notice is still difficult to do , and basically she started writing the rent check out of my checking account, but didnt put her part of the money in , and resulting in the rent check for august bouncing (twice) .

I have told her basically she wanted this place so bad for her daughter , and all that..well im doing way more than my part ,and she isnt.. so she can deal with the landlord , and find someway to explain it ,and pretty much do whatever it takes to make it work. If not she can find somewhere else to live on her own. Im done with babying her and fixing whatever problems she has when she doesnt do what she needs to…

so far she is borrowing a months rent from her grandparents .. though my gut feeling is that the same problem will happen again in october..

keep an eye out man, and dont let them guilt you into anything.. i have heard it all from my GF " my kid needs a roof over her head" and everything else you can think of.. which i agree , the kid needs a roof , but she needs to work to provide for HER kid.

Sorry to hear that, have you looked into options for living on your own yet?

…Hearing stuff like this gets me so pissed.

Not to Hijack somone else’s thread.. but yea, thankfully my family is always there for me , and i can go back there anytime to get back on my feet , and get my life , and finances figured out.

its not like this hasnt been goin on for a while.. but i have basically laid down a deadline.. and we’ll see if she is able to do what it takes .. not just for me.. but for US , and for HER kid…
i just broke up wit hmy 8 month girl friend,

she smoked pot every day,

no job,

not in school,

no car,

no health insurance,

staying with aunt and uncle.

feels good man

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I wouldn’t go that far. They like to be treated like you’ve got something going for you other than "her."

If you’ve got a life and you’re active, and she comprises a "portion" of your life, rather than half, or 3/4ths, then chances are you’ll be able to be a good guy and she won’t look down on you. Now if you seem needy or as though she’s worth more than you are, she’s going to abandon you.

Be polite and courteous, but don’t be a bitch.

Define treat her nice and respect her.

Men who don’t adhere to these qualities get their asses handed to them. You attract what you are most of the time. If you’re a douche, you’ll attract a douche, if you’re an idiot, that’s what you’ll get:

Any man who exibits any combination of the following behaviors consistently will do well with meeting attractive women.

a2.) DOESNT invest all his emotion/time into a relationship too early on. He remains an ambiguous challenge

As you can see from the rest of the thread no, it is not possible to be nice and keep your GF.

Well, let me rephrase, be "nice" but dont be a fucking faggot and let her walk on you, keep your self respect and KNOW that there is a ton of lady’s out there.

Talk like she is special, treat her like she isnt and maybe a little on holidays.
I can’t remember who said it, but work on being a "Good" man, not necessarily a "nice" man.

Be respectful and polite. Be confident, secure, autonomous, in control of your life. Don’t make your world revolve around her, and you will be fine.

Who is "everyone"? I certainly don’t like being treated like crap. I have too much respect for myself to tolerate that. I had a few different guys pull the asshole treatment on me thinking it’d keep me around. It didn’t work out so well for them. Then they called back a few weeks later wanting to know what happened

How hard is it to just be yourself, and treat others (whether a potential love interest, friend or co worker) with the same respect you would want?
be a good guy by respecting her (when she deserves it). reward her only when she exhibits good behavior. stand your ground and speak out if the bitch steps out of line. girls look up to a man who doesnt take bs from ANYONE, including the gf.
im talking to two girls right now, both swear up and down I am the cutest sweetest man alive. Take it for what you will.

I have never been the "asshole" I don’t have alot of relationships but the ones I do have last.

bingo.
when I stopped being a pissed off faggot, and started having fun, women wanted to come around me more. At least 3 of them did, which is more in the last 2 months than I’ve had in the last 4 years.

AWESOME

Exactly. That kind of man is a keeper.

Yeah…uh that would be me from another thread.

Otherwise you show her disrespect? No thanks.

Who peed in your Cheerios? Don’t be so bitter dude.

How would you feel if your girlfriend treated you this way?

Nope….not a shred of truth to it.

Why? It’s all about perspective.

So picture that I have this hot g/f that all kinds of guys would like to date. I’m Mr. NiceGuy and she takes advantage of that and treats me like shit. Then we break up…..ok….so most people see that simply as losing or finishing last.

However, from a different perspective, perhaps we weren’t right for each other. Perhaps I needed a g/f that likes nice people and will respect that….and yes, there are hot ones like this.

Everyone likes easy and simple answers….such as:

• Hot chicks like bad boys
• Nice chicks aren’t hot
• Being Nice = No hotness for joo

But come on….realize that this doesn’t apply to everyone….or even the majority. Sure on OT, that’s all you’ll hear about….but this is not a representative sample of the US or even the world.

Everyone is different and wants different things in a mate. The trick is finding one that is perfect for you…..so if losing this hot chick that isn’t perfect for you moves you closer to finding that other hot chick that IS perfect for you……how is that finishing last??

AMEN to this!!!!! I think if you are lucky enough to find the right person for you…The one who "completes" you and together you feel "whole"..well…that by NO means if finishing LAST, it’s more like winning the lottery that was a 1 in a million chance!

Just be yourself and NEVER try to change who you are to please anyone!!!

Thanks….I’m glad you liked it.

It’s so interesting to me that so many chase the hot chicks…simply because they are hot. I saw this so much in my Frat that it was kind of funny…but back then I was all caught up in it also but found that most of the ones I was chasing were just not right for me. Then I found one that was hot and good for me and wow….what an eye opening experience!

But you know…this concept isn’t just applicable to relationships. It can also apply to jobs, homes, friends or anything else we choose to have in our lives.
women don’t want a puppy dog for a boyfriend. I learned this years ago, but only started practicing it recently.
I’m so afraid for you, because you already hold her on this ridiculous pedestal, and that if anything could have her turn on you in the future. As long as she loves you for you (which will stand tyhe test of time after 8 months or so) she’s worth it. You should never change yourself just to keep a woman, either you are right together or you aren’t It’s a tough pill most people don’t like to swallow.
Most girls want a man who will treat them like a princess but is not afraid to put them in their place.

So, yes you can be "nice" and keep your woman.

Big thing is:

1. Don’t back down on things you WILL NEVER change (these are the things that define you and if you don’t know them then you don’t need to be dating and need to take some time to figure out who you are).

2. Never listen to what she SAYS. Always look at what she DOES. Actions speak much louder than words.

3. Don’t get too comfortable. If all you do is lay around the house and you never take her out, she’s going to get insanely bored with you.

4. Don’t be afraid to argue. Don’t wimp out when you disagree. Don’t be afraid to hurt her feelings. Learn the difference between "being there for her" and "giving her space".

5. Have a life outside of her. You don’t have to spend every day together. Have friends, have a social life, be your own person.

6. But above all else, don’t base your happiness on whether or not she’s happy. If you are with her because she makes you happy, then you are going to live a rough life. Be with her to SHARE your happiness with her and enrich each other’s lives.

You don’t have to be a dick to do these things, but sometimes you have to be really firm because a girl will shit test the shit out of you, push you to your limits, and push the boundaries almost all the fucking time just to see what you are made of.

Ditto! I always love "hearing" what Coottie has to say

(I only read this post)

Women respond when you provoke emotion from them. Many of them go back to the assholes who treat them like shit / abuse them / whatever because the guy provokes emotion from them (this is subconscious).

Don’t be the jerk who treats them like shit.

Be the guy who provokes them in positive ways. PUA push/pull is really effective. Look into and see if it’s something you’re comfortable doing. Being the nice guy/good guy puts you at a disadvantage, but it can work. Make sure you’re provoking emotion and keeping her interested. Don’t get complacent.
Cheers

Took the words out of my mouth..

Well I’ll agree with that

I agree wtih everything you said except these 2 things. You shouldn’t be afraid to disagree but arguing really isn’t necessary. You can have a calm mature discussion about things instead of arguing.

And what exactly do you mean by "don’t be afraid to hurt her feelings"? I don’t think you should be trying to hurt someone’s feelings if you care about them. You should feel free to express your opinions and disagreements but you can do that tactfully without hurting the other person.

It’s my sloppy way of saying not to be a pushover. Two things that keep a nice guy from standing up for himself is he doesn’t want to argue and he is afraid of hurting someone’s feelings.
I always calculate this by what you do when a girl doesn’t show interest in you.

I still dont know how to handle those situations, it’s almost like you can’t help but be needy.
there’s a fine line between being "nice" and being a sappy pushover. Be nice but don’t overdo it (this is a problem I had in the past). women don’t want to be treated like crap but they don’t a boring, wimpy momma’s boy either.
I think about it like that friend we’ve all had who just kinda hung around and sat on the couch, who really didn’t do anything. No one wants to hang out with that guy. If you don’t get out and have fun, while doing things other than sitting around being in love with the more recent woman, then of course the women will find other men to hang out with who are more enjoyable.

I’ve learned in the past few months to
1. Only call women when I have something to talk about or do…do not be the guy on the couch.

2. Be fun and be positive. I want the women I’m after to make my life more entertaining, they want the same thing.

3. Fuck them like a warrior, and break something like a lamp or a clock. You want it, and they want it too.

I’m really sweet, caring person. I’m working on making myself have fun and to trust women enough to not keep an eye on them 24/7 in fear of them cheating on me. I already have the sex part down, which is the easiest but an equally important part. Eventually I think emotional intimacy comes in, which I’ll probably fuck up, but not initially. If a woman has a guy who makes life fun, doesn’t bitch and whine all the time, and fucks like a chinese whore, what else could she want?

/thread

Hey Thanks!!

girls don’t love being treated like crap and the ones that do are not the ones you should be involved with to begin with, so push that thought out of your head.

it’s only been a month, emotions are running high, so go with them, but keep your head on straight. you should be nice and respectful, especially since you care for her. makes no sense not to.

if you think you’re going to get screwed, you will. therefore, stop thinking that way. there is some truth to that, mostly because nice isn’t good enough to keep a relationship going. if that’s all you have to offer her, then the relationship will fizzle out.

don’t get lazy nor complacent. put effort in to the relationship, offer her more than just "nice". keep her interest level high and don’t forget to be selfish to an extent. remember, she shouldn’t get lazy or complacent either. she should be putting in the effort and trying to keep your interest level high as well. if she does, then you should be doing the same in return.

since you say she’s crazy about you, it means you’re doing something right, so don’t worry about it too much or she’ll pick up on it.

I think I just experienced a soul-changing experience. Really weird, but I think now I’m going to start acting like that.

EDIT: I was going to bitch about how so many women go for the assholes who abuse and mistreat them, but instead of whining I’m going to just wonder about that but not let it get to me. Fuck, I think I really am going to change. Seriously.

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The story is as follows:

This primarily involves 2 "friends" of mine, both of whom I went to high school with and have been fairly close to since then (I’m 25 now).

Friend A – I live with
Friend B – Is closer with friend A than me, but we’ve spent quite a bit of time together. The only reason he’s around any more lately is because of friend A.

So, June 2, 2007… we plan a round of golf with a bunch of buddies, a BBQ in the afternoon and a trip down to some bars in the evening. Obviously there is alcohol being consumed all day long. Fast forward to the end of the evening… we (A, B and myself) take a cab from the bars to friend B’s house to drop him off, fully expecting to continue taking the cab home where A and I live.

Friend B comes up with the idea to drive us home, which is about a 10 minute drive straight down a 90km/h highway. This was obviously not the smartest move, but he was fairly insistent about it and tends to do this sort of thing quite often (I’ll come back to this). Anyway, we get around the corner from his house where he goes to enter the expressway. The roads in the area are under construction, so in his infinite wisdom he grabs a construction pylon from out of the drivers window of his car and continues to drive down the onramp dragging this beside him. Upon entering the highway, he lets it go and immediately there are lights behind us as he nearly took out a cop car with the thing. Needless to say, we get pulled over… he denies having drank anything but gets the breathalyzer and blows over. Car gets towed, he goes to jail for a few hours, loses license for 90 days.

Fast forward to now. After a few court dates, the trial is set for February 12th. He wants friend A and myself to visit with his lawyer this Wednesday night and has concocted a totally fabricated version of events that he’s trying to get us to recite at his trial. Friend A being much closer to him now, even moreso due to some other circumstances I won’t get into… seems more than happy to oblige. He confronted me last night about this issue and it got fairly heated. Lying under oath is not something that I am taking lightly. My point to him was that both friend A and I were in the car and saw the same things — if he is willing to go out on a limb for you and recite the fabricated story, then having me do so as well is only going to increase the potential for the prosecutor to find some holes in the story. I have yet to be subpoenaed for this trial and have said repeatedly I don’t plan to attend unless I am.

I’m having a tough time with the moral side of this, mainly because he has a long history of bad judgement, driving drunk, run-in’s with the police (mostly minor issues) and so on. I’ve since come to realize that I am mostly done with being associated with either of them. Friend A is moving out of our place at the end of this month and I’m looking forward to being done with them. I’ve recently gone back to school for my MBA part-time, and it’s time to cut out the party animals.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance

Then don’t go. Or better yet, go, and tell what really happened. You have to do what you feel is right.

And as for your friend…if he makes bad choices, he needs to learn to deal with the consequences of those choices.

Next time he asks about this, give him this simple answer:

No

Thanks… I told him to give me the lawyer’s address and I’d meet him there Wednesday. I haven’t heard from him yet and if I don’t before later I’m just going to tell him outright I’m not getting involved.
theres no moral issues associated with keeping your friend from having to waste 5000 dollars. lie your ass off.
you are a shitty friend if you dont. a truly horrible horrible friend. you either put him into about 5k debt, or you help him just stay out of debt or even jail.

morals have to include understand the results of your actions

here is what you are faced with

Freind A: $0
Friend A: -$5000

You: Lie
You: Honest

you just told him to let his freind donate 5k to the government, what if he has kids? student loans? a mortgage? or a car payment or anything else?

i totally disagree. you need to either be a friend or dont be a freind, theres no half way there.

ive got too many people who have gotten owis in iowa city and elsewhere to know that you dont learn anything from getting arrested, you learn you should lie your ass off every time.

The guy was stupid enough to drive while intoxicated…why the hell should he get out of it?

If he has loans or shit…TOO BAD. That’s his problem.

If he got himself in debt 5k on a credit card, would you still want him to get out of it?

And for the record, anyone who is stupid enough to knowingly drive drunk is not going to be my friend, or would stop being my friend at that point. Same for if a friend asked me to do what is being asked in this situation.

the OP’s friend should have considered the results of HIS actions…not to mention, what if the OP does lie, and gets shot down in court or charged with perjury? Wouldn’t he be fined or perhaps sent to jail?

Then the OP’s friend is being a bad friend, by your logic.

He’s already paid out the ass for this.

There’s no moral issues here? What about the families of people who have been killed by drunk drivers? What about the need for him to learn a lesson? What about lying under oath?

Believe me, it was only a matter of time before something like this happened to him. He already has friend A to tell his version of the events… If I decline to do the same, he’s no further ahead or behind.
I would not go to court and lie under oath for anyone – not even my own family. It could land you in hot water as well if you are found to be lying. You may lose your friends for doing what is right, but if they are asking you to do something that is not right, then perhaps they aren’t really your friends.

. I wouldn’t lie under oath. And I agree with you that it is time to cut these friends out of your life. You don’t want to get into any other trouble because they’re being immature guys. Best wishes and good luck.

exactly, hes already been punished. why not help him out.

Its not a matter of time before he kills someone, that argument is bullshit. Ive been drinking and driving since i was 14… *(i dont anymore)… i did when i was 14 b.c if i was drunk and my mom picked me up, i had my permit and if i didnt drive she would know what was up.

see what the lawyer has to say at least.

well this thread would be considered evidence of perjury. perjury is near impossible to prove or charge.
and most lawyers wont risk their licenses to get someone off on an DUI.

It’s not my place to judge whether or not he’s been punished… that’s for the court to decide.

I won’t comment on your situation, but certainly the advice coming from you needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Yes, perjury is likely very hard to prove or charge. But 0% chance > 0.1% chance.

yea it is your place to judge that. its your moral code. which seems to mean if your friends down forget about him

whereas i would rather do anything to keep my friends out of trouble…. jail and fines are wasted resources in my book. its not justice if you dont hurt anyone to begin with
i truly dont see how anyone equate the legal system = justice.

it doesnt. jail for pot/non violent crime/ anything that doesnt hurt someone doesnt = justice

a fine doesnt = justice either, it just means more money going out of your friends pocket

Let’s put it this way:

If he went through a RIDE program and blew slightly over while driving me home, I’d legitimately feel bad because it just as easily could have been me or someone else in that position. I’d go to court and do whatever I could to help him out.

However, that wasn’t the case as I outlined above. Now I am being asked not only to lie about how much he drank, but his reasons for the pylon incident which was 110% his own fault.

For the record, I drove his damn car home the following day after it was impounded and spent the following 90 days giving him rides so everyone could still hang out.

He’s had his license back since September and he’s still drinking and driving… albeit not to the same extent, but the lesson needs to be learned. He’s been in countless accidents due to his careless driving, had speeding tickets and so on. He can’t keep getting a get out of jail free card.

(And for the record, he’s not facing jail, just a license suspension and possible fines)
when you live in a society and reap the benefits of said society, it is your _moral_ responsibility to abide by the rules, just like anyone else, whether they be in your mind "just" or not. If you do not agree with said rules, take extra precautions to not get caught, or avoid the situation altogether (i.e. not driving down the road with a pylon out your window). Friend B is horribly irresponsible and this situation could’ve been easily avoided. Although I think it should be said that original poster and Friend A should have "insisted" on taking the cab home in the first place, but that is neither here nor there. I think if you don’t want to lie, you shouldn’t have to and it is your duty to tell the truth if subpoenaed..just my 2 cents

I agree fully.
don’t lie under oath. people who drive drunk deserve whatever shit happens to them.

Let’s hope he learns his lesson then.
You have to do what YOU think is best.

I for one have never drove drunk or rode with anyone who has been drinking. Whatever fines your friend has to pay and has already paid, well, there is a thing called consequences for our actions.

I don’t believe I would be able to lie for anyone in a court of law or anywhere else for that matter. Morally speaking I believe to lie is rude, disrespectful, and plain wrong.

You really have two options. You can either go to court and tell the truth, or don’t go (unless you receive a subpoena) and disassociate yourself from these people. Ultimately, you have to do what you think is right, because you are the one who has to live with that decision.
I’ve had three cousins, on three separate occassions, killed in motor vehicle accidents because the other motorist(s) were intoxicated.

Want to talk about morals? How about the thought of defending a possible future vehicular murderer? Yeah, it’s farfetched, but it’s a possibility.

Those who drink and drive are irresponsible, moronic, and complete waste of the oxygen we breathe.

You have a head on your shoulders, don’t succumb to others bullshit. Do whats right.
im sorry about your cousins, but….

a possible future murderer?

so by your logic everyone with a gun is a future murderer kuz people who own guns sometimes murder people! give me a break. yea its farfetched.

No, by my logic people who drink and drive are possible murderers. What, am I wrong? Come with me to the cemetary, I’ll show you how farfetched it is.
no by your logic people with guns are possible murderers, come with me to a cemetary and ill show you how far fetched it is.
Yuppy is simply wrong about this.
Sometimes we forget that there is such a thing as right and wrong, black and white.

This thing is really, really simple.
If you are subpoenaed and tell the truth then you are morally in the right and have nothing to worry about in the realm of legal problems.

If you go and lie and he gets off.
And if he kills someone while driving while drunk.
You are a part of that. Legally you will bear no responsibility, but morally … morally you got to live with yourself.
Malicious,

Do you want to reinforce bad behavior?

I would not recommend offering any attention to life-threatening acts of stupidity, "friend" or not.

If one of my friends does something stupid, I hang up the phone.

Its the fastest way they will learn.

Most of the time the person wakes up and realizes "shit, we can’t play xbox anymore, its time to stop being dumb"

If they don’t, its no loss.
If a close friend of mine asked me to lie under oath to save one of his friends and I said no, and he left it at that – I wouldn’t be mad. He respected my morals and everything would be fine between us.

However, if he kept asking, pressuring or worse yet started yelling at me, I would be offended and outraged.

Black & White case with me.
I fucking hate drunk drivers. I would testify against his ass. It’s illegal for a reason. Other people’s lives were in danger. Fuck him, he needs to learn a lesson.

w/e; if you lie for your friends you are a loyal and true friend.

thi is a fucking misdemeanor, stop making it murder. save em some money/fines/suspension time
Just to clarify, it was the driver himself who asked me to recite a fabricated story… not the other friend.

The two of them are joined at the hip and from what I understand he didn’t even think twice about saying he’d do it. They are both a couple of morons

He tried to relate me doing him this favour to a bunch of stuff he’d done for me in the past (installing a garage door opener, helping me work on my car, helping us move, etc.) I couldn’t help but laugh that he thought this was on the same level.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your input. I was curious whether I was being a shitty friend by my reluctance to lie on his behalf.

Is it bad that I hope he gets everything that’s coming to him?

I’ve lied for my friends about trivial shit… this is not trivial, and the fact that you think it is tells the whole story for all of us.

Alright.

I’m following. Smart move so far.

You put yourself in danger by driving with him. I hope you never do it again. What he did was foolish, and could have severely injured himself or someone else. The consequences of a DUI are getting more severe as time passes and I believe they should.

You are making the right decision to not lie, nor support that process. However I can’t tell you whether you should or shouldn’t attend the trial or take the stand. Think about what could happen if he doesn’t face the consequences? Can you imagine someone’s daughter, mother, brother, father, sometimes child — dying or severely injured in a car accident because he chose to drive under the influence? Can you imagine yourself the type of person who defends or even invests any type of relationship with someone who would do such a thing — making a mockery of justice and the laws which protect you and I?

To be honest, I would probably go to the trial, but this is just me, and I’d take the stand for the "Prosecution" and when it came time to answer questions, I’d tell the story "exactly" the way it happened. I’d make sure it was told so that he would pay the price for what he did, in order that he is prevented from doing it again.

Party animals are fine, criminals are another story. There is no moral consideration here. If you lost someone to a drunk driver or they were injured, there would be no god damn moral issue. He has a history of it, he needs to be stopped. This isn’t about loyalty or ratting someone out — this is about saving potential lives and keeping your own character intact. Imagine him behind the wheel killing your mother. That smug look on his face in knowing he’ll try to get away with it.

You’re already involved. You were there, you know the truth. If that man kills someone down the road, you’ll be partially responsible — perhaps not legally, perhaps not even morally by the judgment and opinion of others, but you can bet your ass you’ll know it inside, and it’ll stay there.

He’ll be ahead by your omission of the truth if you stay quiet.

He was trying to manipulate you. If I did this, then you’re obligated to do that. Fuck that.

There is no friendship when one person isn’t befriending the other. He ended this friendship long before you did.

I absolutely agree. If he has drug problems, alcohol problems whatever — I hope he gets help, but I also hope he pays dearly for the choice he mad.
Oh and just for the record:

drinking and driving is trivial.

As long as no one gets hurt. If you cant walk you cant drive. but if you can walk and talk fine, may be a little buzzed and can concentrate on the road, then its not a big deal.

People die drinking and driving when they drive like idiots, not when they decide to obey the speed limits and drive safely home. just kuz your drunk doesnt give you a free pass for driving like a retard… but just kuz your drunk also doesnt mean you should be grouped in with those retards every time

you are nobody’s real friend
Guess not… told him not long ago I wouldn’t be telling anything but the truth at his trial and to let me know if he still wanted me to attend the meeting with his lawyer tonight.

Obviously he said no, then of course followed it up by saying our "friendship" was over. I said I didn’t need "friends" like him and wished him the best of luck.

Case closed.
Mostly I like you Yuppy.
Mostly you seem to have your head on straight.
Mostly.

DUI is not trivial. The only way you are going to learn this is when someone close to you is seriously hurt by another drunk.

It would be fun to shove this thread in your face when that happens.
You know, you are here crying cause your Dad is dead and looking for support. Instead of giving you support we just yell at you and rub this thread in your face.

Truth is, assuming your Dad isn’t killed tomorrow I will forget about this thread. I am a pretty sympathetic guy and will probably be the first person to show you some sympathy.
Pity.

No.
Cause he needs to see some repurcussions for his actions if he is ever going to learn a lesson about how he is acting.

i went out partying in hollywood one night. i saw a guy drive his car into the center island. it was a rice rocket and the guy drove it up the fucking curb on the center median. i thought he was injured so i parked on the side of the road and watched him for a minute or so. he didnt move at all so i got out and ran over to the car to check on him. the guy passed out and was sleeping. he shattered the front passenger window it wreaked like booze inside.

being buzzed is being under .08. anything more is illegal and illegal for good reason.

"You will not perjur yourself so that your friend can get away with a DUI, therefore you are a shitty person."
how does make any sense?

he refuses to even meet with the lawyer. who will tell him to not lie

this guy refused to even goto the meeting to learn what its all about.

more than likely the meeting was about HOW TO ANSWER the questions, instead of WHAT TO SAY.

lawyers wont risk their licenses getting barred for some punk with a drunk driving infraction

this meeting was probably a standard practice

because in law, you dont ask questions that you dont know the answers to.

I never refused to go, I simply told him I wouldn’t be lying under oath and left it up to him as to whether he wanted me there knowing that… which he said he didn’t.

Their case would look really great when friend A got up there and told the fake story and I went up and told the truth

here’s the thing. would your friend take a bullet for you? probably not.

at the end of the day, you’re the one who needs to live with this not him. by the way it sounds, it seems like he’s more or less a person you grew up with and is acquainted through him like that.

bottom line is do whatever is going to make you sleep at night. if you go up there an lie, and then worry the next 2 months if you are going to be prosecuted for lying under oath then its not worth it. if you can live with that, go ahead.

by the way, $5000 is not that much money. its not going to devastate his life if he has to pay that fine.
5k is a lot of money for most people who get OWIs. it took a friend of mine over 2 years to pay off the owi he got driving my car home from the bar

No, it’s really not. I’ve had 3 friends killed and one paralyzed in the past 18 months in separate incidents involving drunk drivers. The last one, the guy blew 0.9. Drinking and driving is in no way whatsoever trivial and I cannot understand why anyone would think it is.
Yuppy, you’re skimming the story and living by standard.. Stop being so ignorant and read.

I actually find one flaw with this analogy.

You have two type of gun owners:

Type one: People who research the gun they purchase. Take a gun safety course. Then go to a firing range and practice with that gun until they are comfortable with it and are able to shoot dead on target. These type of people, in the event of someone entering into their home, will grab the gun and identify loudly that I have a gun and not afraid to use it if you do not leave. Or, at the VERY least, get a good visual on the person in their home BEFORE shooting. (this is taught in gun safety, I know for sure cause I took the course)These people can be compared to sober drivers.

Type two: People who are afraid of being attacked or having their home broken into. They go get any gun at random, keep it loaded, and never practice shooting it at all. (Don’t laugh, I have seen this happen). Then the day comes that maybe their SO or teenage child tries to quietly come home at a late hour. This person grabs the gun in a panic (not being able to think clearly) and ACCIDENTALLY shoots and kills their SO/child. This person can be compared to the drunk driver.

So just because it is UNLIKELY that your loved one would come home late without you knowing it (you could kill someone while driving intoxicated)doesn’t mean it CAN NOT happen and why would you want to risk it even if the chances are slim??????

but you have 2 types of drunk drivers, the one who can handle his liquor and the one who cant. thats like saying im going to shoot someone when i go hunting possibly everytime.

if i slam 10 beers, get up and take a speed limit trip home, i shouldnt have to worry about getting pulled over and having my life turned upside down.

whereas if someone gets drunk, drives home @ 20 mph over the speed limit, and is swerving, they should have hell to pay.

i just wish i could go get drunk, and call for a police escort home without getting into trouble. it would prevent both unnecessary risks for me and the pubic and then i could wake up and have my car at my house. thatd be sweet.

how hard is it to arrange to have someone to be a DD? Or call a taxi?

at your logic.

The issue is, there isn’t 2 types of drunk drivers, there’s infinite types of drunk drivers.

The effects of alcohol on reaction time, etc. have been proven again and again. Add the variability of human nature into the equation, along with other factors like weather and road condition. You can drive home at the speed limit, but when some kid on a bike jumps out at you and you’re so tanked you can’t react quickly enough, then you’ve got a problem.

The reality is, people have been drinking and driving forever and they will continue to. Cracking down on it will reduce it somewhat, but there will always be someone who will continue to risk it.
Very simple.

When you meet with the lawyer, tell him you will only speak the truth about what happened on that night. The lawyer will remove you from the witness list, plain and simple.

No need to go on trial or take the stand

maybe he shouldn’t have driven drunk

you know, drunk driving fines are absurdly easy to avoid.
Just to follow-up, his lawyer called me Wednesday night and I returned his call yesterday.

He asked if I would be available to attend the trial to tell my side of the story. I let him know that I was aware of the version of events that my "friend" was planning to present and told him that I wouldn’t be saying anything except what actually happened. I said my presence would be detrimental to the case. He seemed quite taken back, and said "That’s shocking… and surprising" as if he actually believed the story he had been told. He thanked me and that was it… all of 30 seconds.

Anyone know what the usual deal is with defense lawyers and fabricated stories? I figured that the guy had to know some or most of the facts were being twisted…

I know NOTHING of the law. We have people in law school in this forum.

But common sense…
the defense lawyer is there to serve his client in the same way that any professional is there to serve his client.

If his client walks in the door and says, ‘This is how it happened….’ I would imagine that the lawyer wouldn’t be motivated to argue with the guy. Well, he would be, he would be motivated to challenge the guy in the way that he thinks the prosecuter would challenge the guy. But to look at the dude and say, ‘You sir are a liar.’ doesn’t really seem to be in the lawyers best interest.

As such, it might take a slap in the face (like what you did) for a lawyer to wake up that the client isn’t being honest with him.

First of all…good for you for sticking up for what you believe in no matter what the consequence. I for one respect your decision.

I think some defense attorney’s are just out for the money or how many wins they can achieve …I mean seriously, have you ever heard about how they make rape VICTIMS look like the actual CRIMINAL???? Don’t think for a minute those attorney’s don’t "know" the truth!!!
Cause God knows a rape trial is just a formality.

Why would a woman make up a story about rape? Get real. If people actualy did things like that, don’t you think it would eventually hit the ivy league colleges and the media? Why haven’t we ever even heard of someone that fabricated a rape charge.

Nope.
If he has a dick, you must convict!

Girl power!

Keep the sarcastic stupidity out. Nobody said that a woman won’t make up a story about rape…

ok nancy grace

most supposed rape victims are criminals: Falsifying reports/drug use/sodomy/perjury/
And the conclusion to the story, he got off on the charges somehow… as I expected he would because that always seems to be the case.

At least you’re not caught up in any of it, then.

And now he has another opportunity to hurt someone.
i don’t care if it’s my brother

if he got a dui, it’s on him.

people who get dui’s, or even don’t get them, but do dui, are fucking idiots, and need to be slain.

too many people die from thsi shit. if you think you’re responsible enough to drink, you should be responsible enough to not drink.

are you serious?! that’s light punishment. tell your friend to relax, this shit ain’t a big deal.

don’t lie for your friend. make him eat the shit.

Whatever you do, do NOT take Yuppy’s advice
@Malicious,

I have been in a similar situation with a friend who reminds me of your friend B. He always drove drunk, cheated on his girlfriends, did stupid shit and lied, etc. etc. ad infinitum, and eventually I got tired of bailing him out. It was a conflict for me, because we were CLOSE friends, really really close but eventually I couldn’t take it.

He cheated on his girlfriend and asked me to corroborate his alibi. I had done this before for him but I just couldn’t do it anymore. We don’t talk so much anymore.

It just happens that way – people turn out differently over time. I hate the thing where to be a real man/a real friend/accepted you are expected to back up somebody who really isn’t even a good friend of yours when they do some stupid fucked up shit like homeboy.

With respect to your situation specifically – DO NOT LIE FOR HIM. Perjury is fucking serious and could have disastrous long-term effects. And plus – how does your friend ever expect to get out of anything after what he did was so over the top?

what.the.fuck.?!

wtf are you crazy?

you just pull stats out of your ass!!

It’s all about who you know…..

duke lacrosse

and that only makes news b.c it was a race issue…. it happens a lot thats why the conviction rate of rapists is rather low

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Before she left I was helping her get shit ready, I ended up driving her to the airport, lugging her luggage to the ticket dude (her luggage was so heavy and I didn’t know I had to carry it a mile, I was sweating like crazy when we got there). I basically hanged out with her until she went through that checkpoint where only people with Tickets can go. I gave her a little kiss and said have a good trip yadda yadda and when I got to my truck she text my phone that she was got teary eyed as she watched me leave and was crying a little bit.

That made me feel damn good! (Is that wrong? heh).

Anyway, she’s gone for 2 months, it’s been a month now and things have changed a little bit. It’s VERY difficult to get in contact with her via phone because for some reason the signal is garbage. There are random times it’s good though, with that said.. it’s been 2 weeks and I haven’t talked to her on the phone once.

I’ve texted, because we can do that but it’s progressed into say.. I’ll text her, and I wont hear from her. Then, one day i’ll get a message saying something very random about something.

When she first got to vietnam she would give me the play by play, im doing this.. im doing that.. etc.. she even told me she didn’t want to be there and that she wanted to come back early (mainly I would imagine because she had a boyfreind now and wanted to be with him).

Now it seems she’s having a blast, maybe so much of a blast she really doesn’t care to talk to me. I’ve tried calling her, sometimes she’ll answer and i’ll hear a couple words before the connection dies and i’ll text her and sometimes I get a response but.. it seems maybe we’re growing very far apart and I dont like it.

So, what do you think? One part of me wants to say "what the fuck?" and the other wants to just.. say fuck it, and just ignore it and wait for her to get back and go from there. It’s been a very long time since i’ve been in a relationship, I really dont like shooting from the hip on situations like this because just this morning I texted her again and thought to myself "It’s been so long since i’ve heard this girls voice"..

I hate that, I dont know what to say to her, dont know what to do. Im either going to sit around and do nothing or im going to say something and I dont want to make a mistake either way and I dont have anyone to talk to in my real life about relationship advice. I know iwishyouwerebeer is a pro on relationships and a lot of you others

What do you think?

p.s I think I should’ve made this thread earlier.

The last communication I got was these

Lastnight before I went to bed I text "Goodnight! Lov ya!" and then right after I got "Me too. goodnight honey".

Then in the morning when I woke up (night time there for her) I got "What u doing? Call me when you have some time! Hate you heheheh".

The hate you thing is an inside joke..

Anway, im rambling..
you sound like you live in different areas and timezones so its natural that you would grow apart, because you are apart.

Just sit back, wait, talk to her when you can. tell her you love her. wait for her to come back.

Yeah that sounds like a good thing to do I guess, like I said.. im probably just paranoid since for the past 2 days i’ve been sick as a dog at work bored with nothing to do.
1) Don’t hound her.

2) Don’t wait around hanging on her every little shred of communication.

3) and most lastly, don’t let her believe you’re waiting around, hanging on her every little shred of communication.

This last point is most important.
and you havent ‘grown apart’ you are just living in 2 different places
Its seperation anxiety, everyone gets it. It is possible that she is growing apart but it’ll only get worse if she knows you are worried. Play it cool man, real cool. Go out and have fun in your own time zone.
Two months isn’t long enough for a couple to drift apart. She might be very busy and needs some space. It sucks that you two aren’t able to talk, but that’s not her fault. If she’s really into you, everything will be cool when she gets back, and you know that she’s coming back. The worst thing that you can do to yourself is worry.
You are cute. Anywho, please please believe me that I am not trying to be negative and not trying to pick on you. This very well could be just seperation anxiety on your part…but I feel it’s more than that. Based on everything else you’ve said about this girl she’s very selfish and I don’t think at the end of the day she is devoted to this relationship as much as you.

If I was really into someone (say my bf) and I was going on a trip for 2 months you better believe no matter how "busy" or how much fun I was having I’d be keeping the lines of communication open. It’s understandable to go maybe 2 days without talking on the phone due to cost and reception…but a week? When I went to Europe in August for 2 weeks I called my boyfriend every other day and texted in between. I was having the time of my life, but I was still miserable without him.

I’m not trying to make you feel worse…it’s just I don’t trust this girl at all from everything you’ve written about her and your relationship. Obviously the best thing you can do now is calm down and not try to contact her so much. Let her try to contact you. If she doesn’t…I think you’ve honestly got to rethink how much she’s worth to you.

Yeah, i’ve been rethinking that for the past couple of days, she’s becoming less appealing to me by doing this type of shit. She’s mentioned to me before about how her culture is very different than american culture and it’s shown but still.

There are a couple of things to think about here though that kind’ve make things a little "off" on what you said (which is dead on to me).

She didn’t marry that guy for me so she HAS to be thinking some sort of long term with me because her mom was really pissed off, she shot her parents and the family down because of me on the marriage thing which made her family pissed at her. She borderline lost her virginity to me (dont ask me about why I say borderline). I’ve helped her mom twice since she’s been gone bringing her places etc. I’ve actually gave her (her, not her mom) 500 bucks cause she was in a bind in Vietnam trying to get her teeth finished (she needed dental work I guess). It is the chinese new year over there so she said that’s part of it I imagine. I dont want to say it’s coincidence that after that she doesn’t get in touch with me more but maybe now that she’s able to get out of the house she’s really busy (the fuck do I know, right?)

I mean, im going to give her a call tonight and hopefully get to talk to her but beyond that phone call im going to follow your advice to make her work a little bit I think. I dont want to give this the light of day if I dont have too, the fact that I even bring this up isn’t really a good thing but when this relationship crumbles im sure you’ll say I told you so, hehe..
I don’t really know what kind of advise to offer but if it doesn’t feel right, then babe- it probably isn’t.

I kind’ve want to go out on a limb and say she really doesn’t care for me anymore and we’re pretty much hosed, time will tell on this one though I guess who the hell knows i’m pissed off and she isn’t talking to me. Maybe I was the american guy she was giving a shot and now that she’s back in vietnam with all her friends things have changed in her mind. Doesn’t sound right to me, I tried to call her 2 times tonight and both times she answered and couldn’t hear a word I said.

I texted her and told her I couldn’t hear her and to call me maybe that will work and it’s been an hour and she hasn’t even responded.

I am thinking of texting her and just saying "I’ll just talk to you when you get back in the US". I know it’s rash but, maybe she’ll get the idea that I am not going to sit and try and get in touch with her anymore.

I dont know, frustrating, sick of going through women like this.. I just want one to be able to put up with my shit. I can put up with anything.

All I can say it My bf needs his teeth fixed, and well after a year and a half I still wouldn’t give him $500 towards fixing his teeth. It’s not your job to be so accomodating. I actually just told him this and he laughed because he would never even ask me for that kind of money, even now.

Anywho, I’ll appreciate an update. If you do realize the relationship isn’t worth all the effort you’re putting into it I’ll still be here with a

STOP! You’ve done far too much, you have got to see that. You are the one constantly trying to get ahold of her. And I know you want to talk to her but she’s had plenty of chances to make the effort sweetie. You have got to wake up and notice that. DO NOT call or text her again.

You also have to realize that you do this to yourself. You choose these women and you pretty much bend over backwards for them when you shouldn’t be at all. This is what I’ve been trying to get you to see since your first post about this girl and any girls in your past. You can say all day long "why do girls always like the asshole!?" until you are blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is girls like "assholes" because they are actually a challenge. And you an fight that that’s an awful truth but it just is. Most girls don’t want a guy who has nothing to live for but his girlfriend.
Crow- you’ve already made your decision Do what’s best for you… we’re here to support you.
Yeah I dont plan on having any communication with her anymore… you’re right beer, she is completely ignoring me now and i’ll make my opinion on that known through my silence.

I just wish this wouldn’t have happened like this. I wish it would’ve happened over the phone or in person, not through stupid text messaging. I never should have givin her money.

Of course, everyone deserves that kind of respect, especially you….it just shows what kind of person she is. She’s a selfish child still. We can assume it’s due to her different culture but I doubt whatever, the fact of the matter is she is being a real biotch.

Ive gone through breakups in the past and im tellin ya, when you have people to talk to about it.. it’s 10 times easier. This morning I woke up expecting some sort of text or missed call but nothing, she didn’t call, text.. etc.. and I thought to myself "what a cunt" and it made things easier considering I gave this chick my HARD earned money and helped her and her mom while she’s been gone.

Here was my rude awakening.

This morning because reading on this forum has taught me a little bit about of how people act with a gal and what kind’ve "men" they want etc. I am a different person all day, I have to be this corporate guy during the day and when I get off work I have to be a teacher to people (I teach brazillian jiujitsu) and when im with her, talking with her or whatever I honestly dont want to be a teacher, i dont want to be anything but me and that honestly isn’t what a lot of girls want hehe. I’m just a kid in my heart, I still play video games and once a month whenever I can I like to get out and drink with my old highschool buddies.. Though when I was with her helping call her phone company because they are overcharging her a month or we’re out to dinner, a movie.. etc i’m of course what you would expect, but it’s under the sheets, behind the closed door that I didn’t think you had to be that guy.

I guess it’s dawning on me and I hate the fact that it’s becoming more and more obvious what you gals want out of a "mate". Guess that’s life, another thing that just doesn’t seem right to me, but is in every way.

Heh

It’s not even that you have to change yourself though. It’s just you have to handle things almost always a little differently in the beginning of a relationship. You also have to kind of accept that there are so many women in this world, all of them have different qualities. Casually dating for a while could be very beneficial for you. When a girl falls in love with you it’s a different story.

Just an example. When I met my bf I didn’t want a relationship whatsoever, so I was very aloof with him about what I wanted. I guess he was really into me because well I could tell and he always called and wanted to hang out. This scared me a little bit. Then one day he stopped calling so much, and I became intrigued. ME! The girl who doesn’t fall for this shit. I started calling him more and he started being a little more "busy." I was immediately more attarcted to him. He’s a super nice guy but he’s not a pushover-there’s a huge difference.

He’s a total goofball, and I mean goofball. I’m practically and at him all the time (he can atest to this). He, like you, has an actual life but also enjoys to unwind and have fun by playing video games. My point is it took a bit of playign on his part, but once he had me hooked he had me hooked, I love his qualities. I don’t know you personally of course, but I can guess that you come on too strong in the beginning and are just choosing and committing yourself to the wrong kinds of women. I’ve seen you, you are damn attractive and I know a lot of girls would like to get with a brazillian jiujitsu trainer who might have a fun personality.
I think IWYWB hit the head on the nail.

You need to understand and accept what is going on. Not only do you need to swallow the truth, you also need to digest it. Until you not only tell yourself the situation, but understand it as well, is when you’ll really take a step back and realize your position in this.

You’re a good guy. You’re trying your hardest, for a long time now. It’s time to realize that even though she might be perfect for you, maybe she isn’t worth it.

Why?

Cause your value is higher.

"If you love something, set it free. If it was destined, it’ll come back."
Thanks very much

Right before valentines day too

Well you never know. Watch she calls you tomorrow to wish you Happy Valentine’s Day and then you are really confused And dont worry about it being V-Day, it’s a stupid "holiday" anyway. You can be romantic anytime.

I think if she did that my head would literally explode after all this. I wouldn’t put it passed her but I doubt it, she’s got no interest in me.

Either way my mood has been set for the next week, heh.

What should I do on valentines day? Im with you on the "another fuckin holiday" thing but… should I text her and say happy valentines day tomorrow night before I go to bed? (assuming I dont hear from her still)
In response to my last message me: Why do you ignore me, you want to be single?

Got a message from her "What does ignore mean? Please tell me, I didn’t say that I wanted to be single why do you think that?"

..

I just dont get this

Can someone mail me a manual?

Stop contacting her.

Edit: NOT EVEN ON VALENTINE’S DAY!

Do you really don’t think she knows what the English word "ignore" means? If so, yikes, you two probably are too different.

Anywho, you should not contact her tomorrow, it’s a fabricated AMERICAN holiday that she probably doesn’t understand anyhow, and she’s in Vietnam. Somehow I think the idea of calling/texting her a happy v-day will just fly over her head. Not to mention if she doesn’t respond you’ll be crushed. You’ve already put in too much effort, stop contacting her. Let her contact you. In the meantime keep yourself busy. If she doesn’t contact you I think you’ve got your realization and hopefully you’ll have mentally prepared yourself to break up.
I think she’s now realizing your level of seriousness. Either you’ve never showed it to her, or she was completely neglegent to your needs.

It’s selfish of her to act like she cares now, but not before.

Play your cards right.. If you respond, keep it LIMITED and just about emotionless.
Maybe I missed it, but how long were you two together?
it’s probably a bad idea to come on here and write this wall of anger/ranting/text…..

As I type this it sounds like i’ve done wrong but im not a bad guy so I dont know what to think.

I followed your advice, and she did celebrate valentines day. I dont know how but I turned her down, I think she was expecting me to get flowers to her in Vietnam and when I think about it, I regret not calling her mom and setting something like that up. I feel like an idiot, and depending on the conversation I have with her tonight i’ll do that.

Im not into this serious relationship type of crap, im sick of it and even though maybe it’s just me at this point i’d rather be single and play the field a bit.

This morning im at work, I know it’s night time over there and I know it’s valentines day. Im trying not to text her and I dont, but then I get a text from her.. she explained to me briefly what she did that day. She was with a couple of her single freinds who didn’t have men and they had soup etc whatever talking about how terrible men are who the fuck knows.. At this point through the 10 text messages im reading im wondering when she’s going to show some sort of compassion for V-DAY (Yes, I was looking for that, because remember the past 2 weeks she’s ignored me and pretty much been acting like she’s an aquaintence of mine/freind rather than her BF) and what do you know, nothing.. no miss you, no love you.. nothing.

So, I tack it up and pull the "im from vietnam im different" card and think nothing of it, but still in the back of my head it builds up that something is not right.

Then I said "I love you very much, I miss you and have a Happy Valentines Day, im alone too it’s ok!"

She said she had a terrible Valentines day and then said what would put me over the fuckin edge. "You’re alone? Maybe you can go hangout with your freinds or your mom or someone else I dont know what to tell you."

Then do add insult to injury right after that I got the "There’s something I have to tell you but i’ll tell you when I get back in the US, I have to go to bed now".

Then, I try calling her, she picks up but it’s a little late and she can’t talk. I say goodbye and texted her pretty much this: "Dont text me, im so confused over these text messages the past couple of weeks im about to leave you. Yes, im serious, I can’t stand these text messages dont text me, we need to talk, when you wakeup call me I need to talk to you."

So, as fucked up as it sounds and I know you’re probably shaking your head at all of this wondering why.. why.. why..

Im thinking im going to do this..

When she calls me.. .wait.. she’ll never call me.. when I call HER and the planets allign and she picks up the phone im going to ask her a few baseline questions after she has the complete understanding of just how confused I am with the text messages. Her english I can understand perfectly, her grammar.. not so much.

1.) Do you love me?
2.) Do you still want to be with me?
3.) What is it you need to tell me? (I bet she’s marrying that guy, which could be a deal breaker for me, I told her she better not do that and like I said, she said she wasn’t going too, pissed her parents off and then.. she dissapeared).

Then, if I get what I want im going to tell her how fucking confusing it is with her and texting and that im going to try and call her a few times a week and beyond that i’ll see her back in the US when she gets back in a month.. that’s that, boom bang done. Then i’ll talk to her when she gets back in town if I have too.

I mean, I dont want it to be 20 questions but I just want to get this shit out of the way and move on or be done with it. I dont like sitting here in limbo waiting for her to "tell" me something and to fuck me around like she’s some princess.

Cunt, im going to hurt motherfuckers tonight in training.
if her thing she has to tell me is her marrying that guy im going to be so mad.

She told me before she went that she was going to do it, and then I got pissed off and almost left and ended up just crashing asleep on her bed and in the morning she said she was sorry, she wasn’t going to do it and that she wouldn’t do anything like that to hurt me. I said "Damn right, other girls you know can do that, you’re taken! heh". And I thought nothing of it, she said in vietnam that she broke the news to the family and her mom and decided she wasn’t going to do it.

Now, after all of this distant shit she has something to tell me.. and it has to wait till she gets back in the US (Basically what I interpret that as is this…. "Tony, im marrying this guy, and I dont want to tell you or talk about it until we are both in the United States and there is nothing you can do about it or say about it".

So, if that’s the case then I think it’s see you later Vietnamese woman. because if she would fucking tell me that’s border line kiss my ass.. but to try to fucking swindle me.. that’s fucking terrible and you can go fuck yourself.

Ok im pissed off still, i’ll try to come back when I cool down.

The thing she has to tell me is really bothering me, really, really bothering me. At this point im just hoping I get the 800 dollars (total) that I gave her back. Then at least I didn’t lose anything but brain cells and time and iwishyouwerebeer can say I told you so..

And if that’s the case beer, I will never, EVER question or doubt you ever again.
I’m really sorry your dealing with this shit. This sucks.
I’m so confused as to what is going on? Why are you still the one calling and texting her?

If she’s got something "important" to say to you, but only when she gets back to the America then FUCK HER (not literally). Stop waiting around for her. I don’t even think what she has to tell you is that she’s marrying that dude, it’s probably as simple as she’s not in love with you and doesn’t want to date you anymore. That would obviously explain her lack of care in your relationship.

You need to stop contacting her and try really really hard to mentally and emotionally move on. That way when she does come home you are at least a step closer to being over her dumb ass.

Yeah I just broke up with her, figured this is just too crazy for me.

Now get your ass out there and CASUALLY date. I can’t stress casually enough. Because I think you’re the kind of guy who falls for every girl he meets, and you’re just too young.

Im 26 if you didn’t know

Who says 26 is old??? I’m 23 and I think 26 is old. I more mean that you need to casually date because I get the feeling you’ve never been a casual dater And I think you learn a hell of a lot more about women and relationships in general by casually dating.
you straight dog… she’s just having more fun than she thought, but she’s gonna be all up on yo dick when she’s back, trust me…

We’re back together…

For now.

I know i know i know

Ive broken up with her twice

First time she came back to me

this time I came back to her

Honestly, we’ll see how things go when she is back and then i’ll seriously make a ruling on it

*sigh* That right there isn’t a …I give up.

I know, well

i’ll be honest, she had it coming the first time because she took a joke WAY too far so that I wouldn’t lump in with me actualy dumping her.

I did though, tell her I was done with her while she is in vietnam. She did NOT understand why and then pretty much told me to piss off because that hurt her pretty bad I guess.. Then I explained to her everything to her about what she was doing.. not talking to me etc.. and then we kind’ve made up

Still though, something is missing…. im kind’ve put myself in limbo here and i’ll just let shit slide and see how it works when she gets back. Over her vacation I dont want to make any decision so i’ll let her not call me for days etc and ill deal with that..

when she gets back, and I take her out to dinner or WHATEVER i’ll really understand if something is "going on". If there is more bullshit im going to cancel my subscription with her.

I know, I should just move on but I have nothing to move on too and no motivation to do it right now with the shit going on in my life so I figure I may as well give her the benefit of the doubt and see where it goes from there.

Believe me, im hip to this bullshit now and my mindset is this: if she fucks with me when she’s back, she’s out of my life.
When I was 19, I dated a girl who was Thai (raised in US), who went to Thailand to see extended family for 3 months during one summer in college. I waited for her and it worked out (that is, until she decided she was a whore 2 years later). We couldn’t text each other then (didn’t really exist is 1996), but we wrote a letter every week or so. Man up and wait. She’s in a different part of the world where international communication is spotty at best via cell – don’t misinterpret if things were fine when she left.

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I was down in Hong Kong and Guangdong, China last week… lady I know introduced me to her friend who really had a thing for me. She just flat out told me since I don’t think she knew how else to approach it. This girl’s from Zhuhai, mainlander tried and true. Thing is.. I really liked her, too. Now I’m back in the US and we’re 13 hrs away…. Not a huge thing, this is 2008.

She speaks moderately good English so I can get points across to her via MSN or email but here’s my main question:

I know next to nothing about Chinese "courtship" customs, ie, what is acceptable/not acceptable but also, I have no idea how to even proceed.

This is a weird question, no doubt… we’re both on opposite sides of the planet but the last thing she said to me was basically"keep in touch.. I really like you" when she gave me her MSN info. Sure beats cell phone charges…

I’m as white as snow and don’t know a lick of Chinese. I have a lot of Asian American friends but they’re all ABCs.. not China-Chinese.. my other friends who are "Chinese" are really from Taiwan which is like comparing the US to South Africa due to their post-1949 history, so they’re really no help.

Need advice! Anything? TIA

My girlfriend is from Italy. It’s different there too. The key is learning! Get yourself a lonely planet guide for learning Chinese, learn the language. The book also teaches you about customs, sex, everything.

Use cheaptickets.com to buy flights. You can stay 3 months at a time, and she can do the same probably. Or you can just go back and forth based on your finances.

Me and my girl do it.
Is that guy that was going to meet a girl in China off the internet still around?
my girls from vietnam and it’s a culture shock to be sure…

i’d think twice about asian culture, it’s much different than european/white culture

I mean this nicely…but why bother?

You’re way far apart…what are you expecting to come of this?

you’re right… that’s a big thing.

The world is small and it’s a 15 hr flight though

Being serious… distance isn’t a huge problem but trying to figure out such cues are… thanks for the replies.
it would be hard to read cues, if she speaks moderately good english. she might not know how she is saying it, or how you would take it, or give u the wrong idea

i dunno what advice to give you.. i dunno if this is something that can work out taken the distance as well as the language

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I absolutely did not I can’t imagine doing that to someone else. He was pretty damn hot though. Except for the married part, that just wasn’t going to fly with me.

Well That would completely disgust me if a married man tried that hard to get with me.

That guy shouldn’t have gotten married, that’s for sure.
I think you’d be amazed how many single women hit on married guys too, it’s not a one way street. A buddy of mine at work has women hitting on him constantly ever since he put the ring on, must be something about wanting what you can’t have. I can’t figure it out either.

That + people get married to the wrong people and find themselves seeking others.

Yeah he admitted to not feeling the same way about her anymore. What’s even sadder is she is pregnant.
As a female. I’ve been in the exact same situation and trust me, he’s just looking for booty. Don’t be fooled or blinded.
well done, glad to see there are still some people with morals.
That sounds more like begging and then assault than seduction.

i think he wouldnt have had to beg if he wasn’t married

it was more awkward feeling than flattering. Kind of froze for a sec too, didnt know what to do because like I said before he was attractive but completely unavailable to me.

A married dude tried to do something similar to me a while back.
Its not flattering. Its disgusting… huge turn off imo.

Well, that doesn’t seem to apply to this situation, even if I agree with it.

What if he went home to file for a divorce?

Highly unlikely, as I mentioned before she’s pregnant. Not only that why would I get with a guy who is willing to cheat on his wife?

Nobody feels the same about their spouse after being married for a few years. That’s part of growing as a person. The only way a marriage will work long-term is if the people involved keep redefining their relationship, so they always know what it is about the other person that they’re in love with.

More marriages in the USA would last longer if more people took this approach, instead of naively expecting the spark to stay lit without help.

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( IBwhypostupaprivateemailontheinterweb IBwatifsheisamemberandreadsthis)

"I am sorry that it has taken me this long to find time and sit down and respond to you and i hate my self for that. I dont have a computer at home so for now I will just be responding at work…. Thank you for staying positive, If i take my anger out on you I appologize.

I love you Ryan(dats me) I am sorry for everything… Where did US go?? thats a really good question I feel like while I was so centered around being there for you and helping you through that I stopped being me and became someone different… and now I have to find the me that I am now and get on track in order to find an US …. we got tossed aside when we where lost we both became focoused on finding our self and not keeping an us.

I was not mad I was touched. You are so far from last place with me its not even funny. I know you love me I know you care for me and that you would be with me in a heart beat if I would let you …. I know that….. Baby I do. thankyou for answering when i called and talking to me til i fell back asleep and thank you for being you and being so understanding I am sorry to make things so hard on you….

you know when you first asked me for space i thought oh we will be back together in a month or two and then that turned into 6 months and that was soo devistating and to plan things that never happened was just hard to take and then that 6 months turned into 10 and I sat there going where in the hell did this come from i am sorry about everything. I would love to spend sunday with you this weekend if you want to come up and hang out.

I LOVE YOU MY BABY.

My dearest Love,
xxxxx ""

I was leaning towards this. she called me like 10 mins after she sent this email. I didn’t answer, she said she may try to call me again later
She dumped you. Move on.

Institute a no-contact-rule.

Be prepared. She will come after you hard, as nothing spikes a woman’s interest like refusing to have anything to do with her.

This woman is only interested in what is best for her. Given the chance, she will suck you into a relationship that will be even more one-sided than before.

She can’t wait to use you up and discard you.

/thread
what has she done to earn your time and attention?

can you have a relationship with her and still respect yourself?

if you disrespect yourself by giving into her, should other people respect you?

holy cow that email is flowery is shit. I can practically smell perfume coming from it.

But…it’s all style, no substance. Ignore it, just keep going on with your life.

thats what I thought.. It didn’t say anything useful.

Nothing really good point. I just still believe there could be good in her. Maybe I am blind.

I could see it being onesided.
She’s a total user. Make a date with her and then stand her up. Then never speak to her ever again

You sir, win 3 free internets.

Damn Yail that is spot on and really struck a cord with me. I was just with a girl just like that. When I finally dropped her stuff off at her house, that she left at my place, boy was she pissed when she got it. I guess it finally showed her that I wouldn’t let her use me.

OP listen to him in the end it will save you a ton of heart ache. I was just like you too. I fell for this girl hard and connected with her like no other but in the end I couldn’t let her use me like she was. Sometimes I think about her but I know that what I did was right and I still haven’t contacted her and only ran into her once. Shes out of my life and what I gained from it was experience and self respect. I deserve better and so do you.

I kind of already did that, last week she wanted me to go to a Dr apt with her, we talked the night before she got an attitude onthe phone, said she would call me back, never did. So i didn’t go to her appointment, and didnt bother to call to let her know.

She wasn’t always like this, so it makes it hard to believe that’s the way it is now. She finally hit a nerve this past weekend, which is probably the only reason I feel slighty ok with not talking to her today.

wtf, who calls an ex to go to a doctor’s appointment with them? Wait..she’s not pregnant, is she? Does she have an STD?

A needy girl who had a bf that did whatever she wanted.
I think you haven’t lived as a man until you’ve dated a girl who thinks it’s her god-given right to string you along while she "figures things out".

Life is TOO SHORT to be messing around with chicks who don’t have their head on straight.

Don’t respond, don’t call, don’t take calls. As far as she is concerned, you have disappeared off the face of the earth.

Who cares about "you, I, him, her", what you are saying makes sense, but you are entirely trying to feed the ego when you want to feel that person’s interest in you spiked. That only has self interest.

Maybe she is in lust with him and it’s hurting her. In this situation I would advise, yes, that it is time to put an end to an old case, but instead of no contact, have excessive contact that is completely fruitless for her.

But end the pain on her end, don’t spike interest with her by cutting off communication.

Do what I did, just talk to her and say that it’s complicated and hard on you due to the present nature of things.

I just kept on talking to my ex about how I still cared for her but no, I cannot get back together with her now because of this and this engagement etc, I would love to but can’t, but no really I can’t. Entertain her until she doesn’t feel like she’s been officially dumped but she took a break and loss her chance.

Then she will go away, like you really want.

And Yail, you sound wise, in a negative fashion. You know exactly what you are talking about, but fashion that girl to be someone that will use you up and spit you out – yes, if you are foolish enough not to guard your heart, or ignorant enough not to see it coming.

But we grow up from that shit if we learned anything, and recognize, yes if I am a dolt and walk back into this worthless relationship, she will have her way and spit me back out to the curb. Duh. This is nothing we both do not know, she wants to use you up, like kicking off at the side of a pool, she just wants that boon and she’s done with you. Nothing new under the sun.

So we don’t go back. It’s how we don’t go back that makes the whole thing as easy as cake. Admire her, admire the times you had with her, comment her, but let there always be some excuse as why you cannot get back with her, and it’s never in your control.

This way, you both walk away, clean deal, sealed. You can still talk later to her if she grows up, could still get a job and work with her, because you let her off easy.

Note that he is leaving with the upper hand. Let him give it up, at least not lead her on to things. That’s what I see is happening.

You have other engagements that do not allow you to get back with her because "its complicated, it’s difficult, it’s hard", and she will look for explanations. But she won’t want to hear them for long. And then you are really free, and she doesn’t terrible, like we feel when we get dumped.

Do onto others

Its weird how reassuring it is seeing someone type that.

The girl I was seeing wasn’t like that in the beginning either or so I thought. All my friends saw it and hell even my parents saw that it was a one way relationship and that she was using me. I didn’t see it because I was involved and felt really connected to her so in a sense I shut those sensors off and didn’t see it until after it started going downhill.

You need to make up your own mind about this but if any of this rings true for you or if you ever felt like you were being strung along and used while she figures things out. You need to really reread everything that was said here and take the advice doled out. I did and in the long run I think it was the best decision I could have made for myself. Hurt like hell I’m not going to lie to you but it was for the best.

Denial and infatutation are a funny things…

Again more self worship here. Why should online females have to go to a forum to listen to him to save heart ache?

Just don’t give any heart ache, don’t give what you wouldn’t take!

It’s difficult right now (true), it’s hard to explain (true), I have other obligations right now (true, breathing for example). She will not want to hear that for long, as it’s all bullshit to her, she just wants you. So she will go on her way.

And all was fine in the land of Nod.

Caused by desire, he will deny that it would be impossible for her to be using him.

Infatuated by lust, he will not deny her presence.

In the end he gets hurt, she moves on fine, and he may one day tell how to ‘get them back’.

Shag that, there is enough BS in relationships. Be strait up, tell her you have engagements, she will screw off.

You have the least negative advice in this thread completely different from what others have been sharing with me (IRL and online)
I haven’t fully decided what to do. I kind of feel like each relationship has it’s own rules and etc etc.. so the same advice doesn’t always apply?
I am starting to see though, where it seems impossible to be worked out. Keep it coming this is pretty enlightening.
Alright dude cool.

Like this world is full of suffering right? We already know we could walk back into X Y Z relationship and get our ass handed back to us. Knowing that contains a lot of power about how to deal with the entire situation because your goal is to walk out as the nice guy that didn’t get messed over, which is exceedingly rare.

IF you are considering getting back with her, expect NOTHING. Really, have no expectations, and guard your heart.

Each relationship does not have it’s own rules. I’m serious when I say humans are virtually all alike, and that a same set of rules nearly applies to everyone, and I know this because BEEP, Rogers Wireless, Hello my name is X Y Z.

Everyone thinks they are special, they are the valued member. Not really.

Now that being said, each relationship is messed up in the fact that you are bringing two people together, and one person is messed up enough.

So there are rules of engagement. Never become attached to any woman. For them, at that stage, you are nothing but another victim of the vampire. Why? Doesn’t matter now does it.

May I presume you are currently undecided on this one, and you may go back?

If that is the case, it’s time to put practicality into play, and to not expect anything, and to guard yourself, and to call bullshit where it ought to be called.

But not to take it personal, and to make any engagements none personal.

It’s never an US vs THEM. It’s always US relating THEM. You can always just relate in a different manner, such as disinterest, and provoke interest. This is what Yail suggested. Allow me to presume that this is a ‘get me back’ attitude we suscribe to. That’s bullshit, no one has time for those people anymore.

Respecting that person like you would want to be respected.

Say you want to break it off, you don’t want to let her mind be screaming "why didn’t he call me back, wtf happened, what did I DO??", and some love that result. I think it’s kind of sick.

So you have to give the call back, explain the wtf, and make certain that she knows she did NOTHING, even if she did everything.

Do unto others type thing. Forgive her totally mentally, and act like nothing happened physically.

So if you have to go into a couple of e-mails about this situation you have, and that you still have interests in her but cannot pursue her at this time due to those obligations, you are letting her off thinking it wasn’t her, and who likes the blame game anyways?

Plus, if for some messed up reason you need to talk to her in the future (due to "omg i love you again"), you treated her real good, and she might consider taking you back, because she never got you the first time, so you are in fact still having the effect of Yail’s method, the interest is still peaked because she could not get you back, yet you have established relations so you can bridge back to her, and you don’t come off acting as an ass.

Thats pretty spot on and I wouldn’t have seen what I typed as self worship until you called me out on it. It took me a while to see it but I reread what I wrote a few times and you’re right. Though there is one thing you’re wrong about. I’d never give someone advice to ‘get them back’. I don’t believe in trying to hurt the other person. I’d rather just move on with my life without trying to get back at anyone as it serves no purpose. You’re advice may be the best for his situation but I don’t think it’d work in mine.

I have faults and I’m learning about them and working on them as best as I can.

Sorry for the derail OP.

Was actually referring to the impression I received from another user on this forum. You seem Johnny on the Dot werd up
Regardless of whether you were referring to me or not it was spot on haha.
I’m getting better. I got a late start on the relationship stuff so its been a rough 2 years learning stuff I think I should have learned back in highschool. I’ve met some interesting people in the last two years to say the least and its really opened up my eyes.
That’s good. This is kind of end comminuque, but it is unique that individuals can recognize their defects, it is often better that they discover them their ownselves, however the fact is a discovered defect can be a dead defect, and I always appreciate the ability for someone to work on themselves, seriously it is a pathway to greatness. Always put yourself down and raise someone else in return. Sacrifice for humanity, going through trouble you didn’t have to just to make it better for someone else.

We would be in pure Euphoria if everyone did that. Unexpected bliss popping up all around us. Oh, you didn’t need to do that. Oh yes I did! Oh no you didn’t silly willy.

We can never make ourselves happy, we can only make others happy.

Out

No problem, I actually learned a lot from the derail. I really appreciated the in depth explanations in your posts btw.. Likewise to everyone else, I will consider each post.. and may come back with an update once I figure it out.

wow

No related posts.

Might be a cry for help but I have no intention of going back to where I was.

Fuck this life.
1-800-SUICIDE

CALL NOW. Or go to the ER.

What’s going on scottymcc?

Bipolar. Ultra Radian + Mixed Mania + etc.

I’m in India and the one med which worked is failing. I am done with this shit. The ER here won’t do jack shit. The last time I saw a doc on this I had to lie to stop being sectioned. Fuck this.

I’m 14 yearsd into an illness that really had no mercy, Thoughts coming into my head are rampant, it’s kinda like someone talking to you very quickily and there’s no getting aways.

14 Fucking years of this shit. I know what is coming. I am done with this shit.

Fuck life.
Looking for my shrinks number. Gotta love it, I have it in a cell phone I use in the UK and it’s out of power. I can’t find the fucking adapter.

I need to talk to someone IRL.

Man I’m really sorry to hear you’re suffering and that you don’t have access to help. What do you need? To get out of India? Is that even possible right now? Can you get back to the UK where there are docs that can help you….even if it’s just for awhile?

Don’t give up man. Life is worth living…..don’t quit. I know it’s difficult right now but please hang in there and find the help you need. Don’t let the docs there dismiss you before the treat you. Be assertive and help them understand the gravity of your situation.

You will be in my prayers and I hope you feel better soon!
if you get to t his thread first, check your PM for my AIM, and we can talk through there or i can give you my number if you want, but i figure that is more difficult since you are out of country.
So I seem to have had a fight with my father, gotta love him. I try to talk to him and my mom about killing myself and hits out with all kind of shit.

I have no love for the guy.

I talked to my mum and she is pretty adamant that she will stay with me the whole night. Lost the damn number of my shrink, will probably visit the hospital tomorrow but the truth is there are no drugs they can give that will work.

This royally sucks ass!
A good reason why you shouldn’t commit suicide.

When i was at that place were you were now, i thought that suicide was the only thing left for me. But then i came to think: this is the easy way out, but its not the right way how to deal with problems. You can’t commit suicide for each and every problem that you face into your life, you will just get reincarnated and will have to live that entire shitty life AGAIN! with all the pain accumulated up till the point were you commited suicide, and step over that hurde in order to proceed with your life.

When i was suicidal i was so self centered on all my problems, i didn’t even see how much my family would have got hurt and the misery my family would have to go thru. I live even if its just for my mom.

What you need right now is a serious reality check, those medicines are symptom suppressors and not problem solvers, you need to goto the root of your problem, and tackle it. You haven’t told us your story really yet on what the hell happend to your life, but its better that you spit it out to blow off some steam. Going to the hospital is step 1, getting medicines is step 2, getting psychiatric help is step 3. Analyzing and talking about the problem, and then with help from everyone tackling this problem together, you don’t have to be alone in this man, were here to support you.
AND stay away from your dad, actually stay away from everyone that doesn’t support you, what you need right now is people who understand and support you.

Staying away from him is impossible right now. I did find out that there are no facilities here for people with these problems, visitied my PDoc and he’s offering to meet with me whenevr and give me abode for some days in the hospital.

Changed the prescription a bit too, moving on to Klomazepam or whatever..sorry I am pretty much out of it after the Benzos I was given. I really have no idea what’s going on now and rely on spell check to give some kind of coherent message.

It waqs always comming but I think Canibal Holocaust didn’t help/

I understand your intentions are noble but for me it is ultimatly about quantity ovrer quality, the benzos m,ay help and nbe less damagng than drink …damn my english is getting worse and worse. This shit rocks!

Toaking my fasther to the shrink nedt week so they can chat. Hopefully talking to a professional in this field who knows me for severtal years will give him some insight. Probably won’t change mutch as he’s still to set in his ways but it’s something.

Dhit, my Eglish is all over the place. Benzos, a hell f a drug!
I know how it is to be in your shoes. Start eating by the food pyramid and avoid anything that’s processed. Exercise vigorously. Challenge yourself. Personally, I’ve turned into a health freak and it’s the best thing I’ve ever done. I’ve gone from always depressed, hopeless and tired to alright, hopefull and energetic. Do green tea (decaffenated), a multi-vitamin and fish oil (omega-3). Also change your perspective and attitude towards life. When I started feeling better and achieving alot I noticed that my attitude towards life was just shitty. Learn to relax just as you learn to focus. I hope that helps
When it rain it pours man, just please and try to keep a positive outlook on life and it will turn back around. There are several people here in this thread that are willing to help you in any way we can. Suicide is permanent, I know it’s pretty obvious, but just work your way through the tough time and things will get better! Just know that you are not alone..
I was just recently in similar shoes, but over a completely different matter, and let me tell you… I am glad I didn’t pull the plug. Why? Life is better than it has ever been, I don’t remember being this happy in about 4 years.
I know this isn’t what you want to here, because you are thinking this doesn’t help me, I am not going to get better, and I am going to die. These are all not true; Infact they are extremely untrue. I went from my parents calling the police on me twice, because they thought I was passed the point in which they could physically stopping, to now not even thinking about sucide. I haven’t even considered suicide in the last 4 months.
If you need someone to talk to, you can talk to me, or anyone else offering there help. But please! Please don’t give up, it can be oh so much better.

I left you my contact info in your pm box.
Can you possibly get outta India? Sounds expensive but you have a UK mobile… you have to be visiting India from what I gather.

Reason why I say that is that I don’t think Indian mental healthcare, even for the ultra-wealthy, could possibly be any good. I think you’d be doing yourself a favor if you got out.
Have you thought possibly that your shrink isnt working? Ive heard some horror stories but out of the 5 ive had only one was a moron.

This is number 9. I do feel a lot of resentment at some of the rest but the guy worked with me, went on his own time to research my condition were in the past they just said "interesting" and did jack shit.

I noticed though the young ones fresh out of Uni are useless.

Lesrning to relax right now, pretty spaced out so if my English is pretty bad it’s really because I’m a little gubed. My mood changes perhaps 5 -15 times a day. I’d love to get to the gym but social phobia makes it a problem.

Yes, I thank them and you all for the support, having a fast paced forum and advice on hand from as far afield as the US meant and means a lot. Thanks for the guys/girls shooting me PM’s. Getting blood tests towmorrow so I can start something new……hate this shit though, the waiting to see if something will work. Till then I’ll be whacked out on Benzos. One bottle of beer and I’ll be on the floor.

Thanks again, it does mean a lot. The posts in this forum did I guess motivate me to do something as soon as possible. Real problem is having something hitting me for 14 or so years constantly and running out of options. It’s a pretty drug resistant form which isn’t much known about, very little research is being done on this and if drugs work it’s by chance. If things go to shit again I may take you up on your offer, again thanks.

I was surprised at the level of Health care I got here. In the UK you wait for two months to see a doc, then wait again the same amount of time to go back. Here you can see someone within a couple of hours. The PDoc I have worked in the UK NHS. The drugs are cheap as hell – the Nimodipine in hte US may cost $60 a day, here it costs me half that for a month.

The UK won’t prescribe a drug called Gabapentin to me but here I get it and have had the best results…the US also prescribes it for this condition so I’m not sure what’s going on in the UK.

My overall condition can go up and down but overall I have had far better treatment for a fraction of the cost. 1 hour trip to an Ex-NHS doc costs about $3.00.

Last time I went to see a shrink in the UK I was pulled off everything to see what was going on, told to come back in two months to see exactly what was going on…even after telling them. Came back 2 months later and got the same shit. Eventually nearly sectioned for lack of drugs and wanting to kill my father.

Put on some shit that did little sodium valproate, did Jack shit and my new Doc (changed after I flipped) suggested I go to some kind of councilling. The people around me notice a vast improvement in me since coming to India. I can be on the equivellant of $1500 of drugs a month and pay about $40 here.

SOrry if I rambelled, I’m off to take some more of these Benzos –

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