I think a lot of our fights stem from insecurity issues, like a few nights ago I mentioned that a long time ago my friend stole a 12 pack of condoms and it was "expensive." She got hurt because I mentioned they were expensive and she felt I was trying to insinuate that I had bought lots of 12-packs of condoms in my day, which I wasn’t referring to at all. This ended up in a huge fight that continued for like a day. A lot of times I feel like I am a walking in a minefield when talking to her because if I say the slightest things wrong she blows up. We are both fairly stubborn, and I am by no means perfect either, so sometimes being the first to resolve the fight is hard.

Another issue is the sex. With all this fighting, our sex life has gone from 3x a day to maybe once every three days. I feel like she never initiates and I have communicated with her and she claims she feels all I want her for is sex. I try to show her I love her, but sometimes if I just grab her out of the blue and try to be spontanious and start sex, she will push me away saying its all I care about. I love her very much, but I also appreciate sex with her, but if she says no, sometimes I will look at porn while she is gone to finish myself off because there is no sense in getting mad at her if she isn’t in the mood, right? Well, she will get mad at me if I do that, saying things like "You cant keep your dick in your pants for one day? All you care about is sex!" I feel like I can not win here.

The last issue is our friends. Anytime I go out with my friends, I try to invite her. She always says she will come, but we always end up fighting and she ends up not coming, almost using it as a reward for her to come with me. Now this is fine, as sometimes I enjoy some guy time, but it sucks always going out with the guys and they bring their girls and always ask where mine is. This in turn leads to more fighting between us and more sleeping on the couch.

Now, dont get me wrong. This girl is amazing and I love her very much. She is completely honest and aside from the fighting, she treats me wonderfully. She always offers to pay, always cleans my laundry and the house, and never really complains. She is amazing and I love her, which is why I am trying to figure out what we can do to make this work. We have had lots of "How can we make this work" conversations, but to little avail. I guess I am just looking for advice. I would like to keep moving out out of the question because I do enjoy it there and half my stuff is in the house, and I dont want to deal with moving out during my school cause my classes are stressful enough. Will this all subside? I guess I am just stress and venting. Sorry for the long read .
unfortunately, there is nothing you can do to fix her insecurity. thats something she has to want to fix on her own. her getting mad about such little things might have a deeper meaning. is something else going on in the relationship that you are not telling us about?

are any of these fights about household stuff? who did the dishes last, who took out the trash last, the fact that you didnt pick up your dirty socks, etc? if so, you guys need to sit down and figure out a plan of who does what and when to make it fair. you both work and you both go to school so you both are equally busy. trying to even out the housework would help both of you

if the fights are only about relationship stuff, then you guys need to really think about why you are together and if you want to stay together. you cant say she is a girl who "never really complains" yet starts a huge day long fight about the fact that you may have bought condoms at some point in your life. those are not the same girl. one of the statements cant be completely true
This is a problem i am familiar with. It comes from lack of understanding and a 100% wrong approuch towards the relationship in which you ‘think’ you are doing everything alright but the lack of knowledge of the female brain is giving you ultra hyper mega stress.

The solution = taking away the stress on her side/equals to you not getting stressed.

-Always ask her ‘what do you want me to do?’ that way she can ‘guide’ you into doing the right thing. You don’t know what she wants, nor do you have a crystal ball, so this means that no matter WHAT you do, you will always do it wrong, therefore instead of ‘bringing’ a solution, let her be the one who gives a solution, and immediatly carry that out.

You see its not so much about who is right or wrong, she simply wants you to listen to her, this is defying your sense of a logical solution and these two elements make you start fighting, its your logic vs her willingness to be listened towards to.

"The Blame Game"

you did this wrong, no its your fault , no dammit i didn’t mean it that way, but why did you … .etc etc

This approuch is totally wrong, in above example your only putting more oil on the fire.

- Don’t play along with the blame game, just say to her ‘ im not going to blame you like you are blaming me because it doesn’t give any solution at all.

Just say that to her, and stop blaming her ‘ever’ in the future.

What you should do.

- Keep your distance and ALWAYS stay nice to eachother.

The big danger is that you will start fighting with ‘your opinion vs her opinion’

A couple is a team, she isn’t with you to get scolded and hurt by you, nor are you with her to get scolded and hurt by her, at the moment you guys are fighting eachother instead of the problem, in soccer you have to kick the ball , not your opponent, in a relationship it is very much the same. You guys need to start working together to solve the problem.

If there are two different opinions ,for example we could start a big fight over which colour is nicest , blue or pink. Hell not only could i start an argument with us fighting, i could kill you over the fact that you don’t like pink. In a relationship ‘this above’ is no good. Rather do it like this.

Just keep your distance and say. Ok , you have your opinion and that’s just fine , and i’ll just keep mine. Period and let it rest.

Furthermore if there are MAJOR stress factors in your girls life, then your girl is going to unleash this stress onto you. (for some reason woman think they can unleash all their misery onto their bf’s ) So if this is the case, your girl should make life altering changes so that she isn’t so stressed anymore. Ask her what she would like to do, and take her out and do fun things, strictly keep yourself to these rules and you should be fine.
if she’s getting pissed about you talking about condoms she has some serious growing up to do. Red flag.
you guys never fought about this stuff before you moved in together? that seems so odd to me. i can understand if household fights begin after you move in together, but not seemingly deep-seeded relationship issues.

if that is the case, my guess is that it stems from the stress. are both of you exercising? eating well? taking time out of your day to relax?
does SHE spend any time away from you besides work? I know you mentioned that you go out with your friends, but she needs to do the same too.

When people post threads like these it’s always good to search for the other threads they made so you can see what’s really going on.

So this girl took you back? Why? Sounds like she isn’t happy with her decision so she is picking fights over anything she can because she wants out.

And if fighting is a problem…THEN STOP FIGHTING. You are adults now, learn to communicate like adults. That means sitting down and discussing what’s really going on without yelling and screaming and whining like children. If one of you starts to get too heated then leave the room to calm down and don’t finish the discussion until you can do it calmly. Fighting does not solve anything and will just make your relationship worse and worse.

A while ago, we broke up and for those few days I hooked up with an ex. She found out about and has never really gotten over it. It has been hard on both of us to move past this, but we are trying. SOrry it took so long to respond. THanks for all the advice its great.

How the fuck do you leave out that HUGELY important detail? No wonder things are going down the shitter man, I wouldn’t have even gotten back with you let alone continued living with you after that.

so its been 6 months and she is still mad at you about it? i dont even see the point in getting back together. i can understand that it would be hard to forgive, but you guys should not even be together if she cant forgive and forget the issues.

i know its not what you wanted to do, but i think the best issue is to break up. things have not improved, and i dont think that they will.

you guys shouldnt have moved in together when things were still so unstable. living together is a huge thing not to be taken lightly, and it requires a stable mature relationship to work through the normal living together issues. you guys didnt even have that, which is why things are so bad now.

if you want to try and stay with her, you guys need to have a dicussion and move forward from the past. the problem with that is she has been bitterly holding onto it for so long, its going to be hard to let go of it now.

We didn’t live together then. We have only been living together 3 months. This happened roughly 6 months ago. She decided to give me another chance even though we both knew it would be hard.

Doesn’t matter. You two should have never ever moved in together until those feelings on her part were resolved. I doubt they ever would have been nor will they be now because moving in together is a whole other world of stress added on.

True. I was under the impression that it was water under the bridge (based on what she told me before we moved in) and that we were gonna move in and let the past stay the past. However, recently she has told me she does not think she will ever get over the past, which contradicts what she told me before, although I don’t think I could either

So what now? Have you guys sat down and discussed working through it with therapy or are you just going to end it?

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Basically, either this comedonal acne has caused some unusual amount of scarring, or I have a genetic autoimmune disorder where my immune system is eating away at my face. I guess the doctor is still researching, but either way it sucks.

I have become extremely anti-social. I don’t feel like going out anymore. I just stare into the mirror for hours, but only at home. Outside of home, I avoid mirrors and reflective surfaces like the plague. I remember the other week walking up to my friends car cause we were going to go grab dinner, and I saw my reflection, and I damn near fell to the ground and starting crying.

I have lost damn near all self-esteem and self-confidence. Everytime I talk to people I always back away or try to find a dim corner of the room to stand in. And I can’t concentrate on the conversation because I keep thinking they are looking at the texture of my face and not me.

The thing that has been killing me the most is my girlfriend. I’m afraid to see her. I’m afraid of her seeing me. The other week I confronted her about my problems, and she just kept telling me that "she isn’t that shallow" and that I "look just as good as when I met you" but I still don’t feel comfortable. My face is just getting worse and worse. She is amazing and beautiful, best thing that has ever happened to me. I’ve never felt so comfortable around a girl before, and it kills me to know that my face will probably eventually scare her away. I’ve seen the other guys waiting in line for her, and I feel so inferior to them now. I used to be really outgoing and social and assertive and now I’m the complete opposite. If she doesn’t leave me for my disfigurement, she is going to surely leave me for my massive personality change….. BUT I CAN’T HELP IT, I CANT BE MYSELF!!! I’m in so much psychological distress it’s fucking INSANE!!!

I’ve been losing so much sleep. Endless nightmares, waking up 5-7 times a night, work has become such a nightmare because I can’t concentrate, I keep thinking about my face, and I’m on the brink of being fired.

I keep imagining this life scenario of being a recluse and how unacceptable it is, and so I’ve been really suicidal. I can’t believe how much I’ve fallen apart in 2 months. I don’t know what to do. If it is the genetic autoimmune disorder, it will be very depressing. If it was the blackheads, that will be very depressing too, because I had no idea they were a problem, I HAD NO IDEA THEY WERE THERE. After the dermatologist told me about them, I could still barely see the blackheads sticking my face into a mirror, but yes they were there, very tiny. I’ve always noticed the blackheads on my nose just as much as everyone else, but I had no clue it was all over my cheeks and forehead. My cheeks were the first to scar up real badly, and my forehead was okay for a while, but a few pits have popped up on my forehead and the depression and distress has amplified quite a bit. I’m going fucknig crazy.
You need to go to other doctors and get more opinions. Waiting around hoping that the one doctor will research it for you won’t help. Also I would think that a dermatoligist could give you something to reduce the scarring.
See other doctors.

Seriously consider seeking professional counseling.

Hey man, listen. Although I didn’t have any form of outbreak in acne or anything, I definitely experienced a facial disfigurement myself. I was jumped rather violently by six people, giving me 6 stitches in my forehead that cracked open, and 5 more underneath my nose. This was Feb ’07.

I didn’t want to go out. I didn’t want to see anyone. I didn’t even look in the mirror because everytime I did, I cried. "What a monster", "Look how ugly I’ve become", "My once so pretty face..", I had all these thoughts, too. I thought that no matter what happened in life, I’d exclude myself from it for as long as I possibly could.

I disconnected my cell phone to avoid calls from friends, quit my job, completely detatched myself from every possible social event there was. I stood inside.

One day I had to go pick up my prescription and on the way I got pulled over (Maybe 3 days after this all happened). The officer came up to my car and gave me a quick look then pulled herself back about a foot. She was startled. She apologised for being withdrawn, then asked what happened. I explained the situation, and while doing so, became very emotional. I started to tear (how embarrasing, right?) and she gave me some words of advice with a little quote I remember til’ this day.

"On the plains of hesitation lie the bones of countless million; who on the threshold of victory sat down to rest, and in resting, they died."

Now, at that time I was kinda like "Um?" and didn’t know what to take from it. I thought about the quote a lot and basically wrote an essay for myself on how it directly ties into my life.

You see, life is a game. We are the player in it from our very birth, to our last breathing minute. We come across hundreds of scenarios that leave us happy, thoughtful, uncomfortable, and mostly – confused. Everything that we go through is all part of this game.. all part of life. If you give up, you lose. Is that really what you want? Do you want to be the kid who, because of a little difference in his appearance, decides that he no longer wants to play?

You’re better then that, bro. You seem very well educated, well mannered, and from the sounds of it looks like you have a lot of good things going for you. Stop being so hard on your girlfriend, I’m sure the LAST thing she wants is to cause you any emotional pain – she’s assuring you of her commitment to you, be thankful.

You’ll be alright, man. This just started, it’ll end. Surely it’ll end.

He gave you Tetracycline, or Doxy?

I would research specialists. You can use ratemd.com to find another physician in your area who is extremely competent.

The effect this is having on your self esteem and sense of self is debilitating. It’s important you seek counseling. This situation may have a resolution medically, I am in no position to promise any of that though, but I can tell you that expressing these things and really working with someone will help you develop resources to cope either while you work towards finding a cure, or whether you live with it. Life doesn’t end when our faces are disfigured. My face was disfigured at one time, so I understand the feelings. I felt good about who I was as a person though during that time, so my appearance didn’t affect me. I was also in counseling during that time however, but for unrelated things, so it still helped.

Maybe they are looking at your face, and maybe they are judging you. Maybe they’re listening to you too, maybe they aren’t even thinking about it. You really don’t know, and even if they are judging you, once they talk to you, you can master the conversation. Appearances are more important in our culture as a result of culture, not actual reality. Men who are unattractive or injured in accidents, burned — etc, still manage to effectively interact with society without being debilitated, or even feeling bad about it, but it takes working on what’s inside, working on finding another way to define yourself.

I understand your pain, really I do, it doesn’t just happen overnight, but you will cope and adapt if you have no choice, and you do have the power to make it a non-issue during social interactions, it just takes work.

You’re irrational fear has "some" basis in reality, but for the most part is irrational. Let me explain something to you. People bond with people. Those bonds once formed elude appearance. Your girlfriend sounds like she loves you. Now I’ll tell you something, and you’re going to be in disbelief, but if your girlfriend is scared away somehow, it likely will not be the result of your face, but rather your obsession, fear and anxiety over being left.

What we fear, we create. It’s a paradox in our world. If you weren’t afraid she would leave you, and you carried on as you once did, people probably wouldn’t bat an eye, but the most we fear something, the more we begin pushing solutions away, we begin to push other people away, we begin to be consumed by an irrational behavior pattern that becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

In other words, your fear will drive people away, but it is highly doubtful that your face will.

Yes, you are, but let me tell you something. It’s ok to be in this state. It’s your reaction to grief, to losing control, and losing apart of who you believed yourself to be. You associated your face with apart of "you" — and it’s true, it’s apart of your body, but it doesn’t encapsulate you. It isn’t the sum. Human beings by nature are primarily social, physical appearance is "some what" valued, but it’s not important as your ability to communicate and alter people’s states and feelings through that medium.

Get counseling, find a specialist to help you form a second opinion. I would find the best damn specialist in the field of Dermatology and Plastic Surgery I could, and I’d search for options.

You know why I say this? Because I did it.

You’re afraid. Many people would be. You must find a way to refocus who you are. You aren’t your face. These feelings won’t stay a part of your life as long as you work on feeling them and restructuring their context. In therapy you can do this. If it’s a genetic disorder, then you’ll live, and you’ll accept the outcome. If it’s something you can solve, you will. If it’s something inbetween, you’ll accept that too. You must understand this major point, you aren’t powerless, nor are you your face.

Crazy? No. You feel like you’re crazy, but you’re not. This reaction happens to people who fear or who are losing a portion of what they consider their identity. It’s important you speak with your primary care provider about how you can cope with the overwhelming depression and suicidal thoughts you’ve been having. The nightmares and sleep difficulties can also be worked on. Your primary will likely recommend a psychiatrist. I doubt you’ll need long term care, but it’s important to get that care to alleviate some of your suffering. You still need to feel the grief associated with the loss you feel, but suicide is not a feeling anyone should have to continue feeling.

You really will be ok. I do hope a solution exists, but not for your peace of mind, simply because it’s better to be healthy. I am sick with a chronic illness. The irony of our situations is my illness doesn’t currently have any physical appearance aside from my limp and dark circles under my eyes/sunken eyes. I look perfectly healthy, and even quite attractive. The irony I spoke of now is that I often can’t even go outside! I’m usually too sick or too fatigued!

See the irony? People at least "see" your face, at least see you, at least you interact with the world. I, unfortunately am often unable to. I may never be able to, but I know who I am, and I am not my illness (though it’s a massive part of my life), and I am not my face (Which I did lose for awhile), and I am not alone, although I often physically am.

You will get through this, and you’ll find a different way to define yourself if you must. You will succeed at it, as long as you work on it, which I know you will.

Damn son, you got owned. So did you curl up in the fetal position while they kicked and punched, or did you get a few good shots in?

I got two shots in.. my brass knuckles. Laid two of em out, other four got a hold on me.. Don’t remember anything after that.

It was Downtown Providence, near the clubs
Post a pic, is it as bad as you say it is? how old are you, just out of curiosity?

my acne has been clearing up the past few months. Maybe it’s because i’m getting older…

Im curious what it looks like as well…when I was around 21-23 years old, I got some bad cystic like pimples on my jaw line and neck area below it. i would make up excuses not to go out with friends on the weekends. I did different things to get rid of it, and it has healed with hardly any scarring at all. I wish you luck
Thank you for your input Dreams2Reality. That is a great quote =) And it’s like… yeah you only live once…. why not live it, and fight as hard as you can? Really I can imagine becoming social again, but what is really hard for me is imagining not ever being in a relationship again because I’m just too hard to look at.

METALLIC BLUE, thank you so much for your input. What you had to say was so great, I think I’ve read it over 4-5 times. I’ve always had a ton of respect for you and the input you’ve given others, I was actually kind of depressed when you originally ended your account here on this website. Thank you so much for your words…. It’s hard to express it while facing a computer monitor typing on a keyboard, but thank you so much.

I’ve been doing tons of research on scar treatments and trying to read anything inspirational to keep me chugging along. It’s really hard to concentrate on these things though when previous scars keep getting worse and new ones keep appearing. I’m sure it will be much easier to deal with the grief once it halts. I’m just terrified of how bad it could get….

If you need further support along the way, say so. I can’t do the work for you but I can help answer questions, perhaps of a medical nature, or help you prepare for appointments. The more competent and prepared you are with physicians, the more likely you’ll get from point A to point B.

I don’t know much about dermatology, but I know doctors and what they want and what they need.
We all have our problems TourTreaux, don’t feel alone. For me I have a massive scar around my neck from surgery about 3/4 the circumference… it’s high enough where a t-shirt won’t cover it so it’s out in the open. Some people even think it’s because I tried to kill myself, but whatever. Thing is I can’t do anything about it, or how they react, or if they stare or not. Once you start getting in that mind set, it’s easier to just not give a shit.

Good luck to you, stop playing internet detective and find doctors that will change your problem around.
wow, i’m sorry to hear about this dude… not trying to make you feel worse, but i’ve never heard of a case this severe…

i’m not saying i’d be able to do this, but you could try to explain your problems to your close friends, and they tell others, so it’s not akward when you enter the room…

another thing… my brother has almost died many times in his life to chron’s disease, and all of the doctors said nothing was wrong, one after another… but eventually, he found a doctor who diagnosed him with the disease, and he began to seek treatment after that…

for myself, i had growing issues… all of my friends were head, or 1.5 heads taller than me in middle school. that was not fun. i’m a confident kid overall, but during those times, it was hard to hang out with family, because i was the shortest, skinniest one. all the doctors told me to eat more, eat more, eat more…

after my mom took me to 10+ specialists, spent crazy money on this stuff, i was diagnosed with acid reflux, and growth hormone defficiency(sp?). gladly, we were in good finances at the time to cover what insurance doesn’t cover! i’m not 5’5"(i wouldn’t be a different height if i could choose… i love my height), and i’ve got a bit more weight on me than before. whatever it is, i can control the weight in the future, but the height was the critical part.

there’s always a cure man… especially for something as simple as acne. i know it’s not simple, but it’s not aids, ya know? so because this is something that could possibly affect you for your life, you should really invest in this if you have to, no matter what the cost is.

there are tons of ways to look at it… also, if the insurance doctor says you don’t need to see a specialist, then call in, argue, argue, argue, and argue… if you can’t get to a specialist, then go there on your own, and pay the hundreds of dollars per hour of help if you have to.

today i filed for a patent and the lawyer’s rate was $315/hour. yeah, $315. i don’t blame them though, they work hard to get where they are in life.
oh yeah, and good luck… keep your head up, and remember that there are people in this world who care about you…

i’ve said this before in the asylum, and i’ll say it again… it’d make me sad to find out you’re gone, even though i don’t know you. good luck man.
If it is just acne I am sure something can be done to reduce it.

I think Crohn’s Disease is primarily caused by a persistent bacterial infection. Research presently indicates that some doctors are using long term chronic antibiotics on patients and the inflammatory bowel disease is gradually rescinding, if not entirely disappearing without a few years of therapy. The therapy combination is Macrolides combined, usually 2 drugs or more, sometimes up to 4. Clarithromycin, Rifampin, etc.

You can find out more on

I believe this is the primary cause of the disease, in-fact I would stake my life on it.

I know, because I’m diagnosed with Crohn’s Disease. With years of antibiotic therapy to treat Lyme Disease (which I suspect was causing the CD) the illness has nearly subsided entirely. This should help your brother if he’s interested in curing the illness.
vitamin e oil has been known to fade or remove acne scars, you should give it a try here

I’ve been trying to find a Dermatopathologist, someone who specializes in skin diseases specifically, but I’ve called so many and the soonest one I could find was Feb. 8th!!!

It’s maddening. I kept trying to tell them it was an emergency and I needed in sooner, but they said the only thing they could do for me is put me on the cancel waiting list, where I can fill someone elses spot if they cancel, but the line for it is LONG.

I pretty much hung out with my girlfriend all weekend. I talked to her about it, and she kept saying I look fine. BUT I DONT!!! It finally got to the point where she told me about her biggest crush in high school. She said that he was the ugliest guy ever, but he made her laugh and she just loved being around him, and that she could of seen her marrying him. But he was gay so it never happened. But afterwards reinforced that I wasn’t ugly, but if I became so, she would still love me. I felt really anti-social the whole weekend.

But I don’t know. I WANT TO LOOK GOOD. Although after tons of hard thinking, I do feel a lot less grief. I don’t shudder at my reflection…. I just tell myself….. "It’s happened…. it’s happening. There’s no reversing it. Deal with it." And I’ve been doing lots of research on scar treatments, and trying to be realistic about it all. I know I will never have my face from before, But all I want really is to improve the texture, make the pits more shallow, reduce the rolling scars which look horrible in dim areas, etc. I just really wish the scarring would reach it’s end, so I can start assessing the damage. Trying so very hard to keep my head up…… And still hoping that I don’t have an autoimmune disease of some sort.

I’ve seen people with worse scarring than me, that are very sociable and still get great women. Hell, thinking hard about it, whenever I run into someone with bad scarring, I notice it…. but I never think to myself "eeeew gross" and usually pay more attention to how they hold theirselves, how they speak, etc. I just need to keep that mentality, that people notice the scars, but don’t feel any disgust from it. Maybe they do…. maybe they don’t? I need to stop caring. It sometimes seems to make some men look more masculine, and I’ve seen women that I still found very attractive despite the severe scarring.

Although I’m way more positive during the day this week despite looking worse, I’m still having really bad nightmares that are really vivid.

Sorry, needed to rant T_T
Acne sucks in every way and form, but it doesn’t make a difference in how you live your life. You’re still you. You have a girlfriend that sees that but you don’t.

Work on that first, then the scarring second. There’s probably 100 dermatologists within a 25 mile radius of you. Bust out the phone book and start calling around.

This is enormous progress. I’m very proud of your current progress. Continue forward, you’re beginning to understand the larger picture. The nightmares will end eventually, but you have to go through this process of grief. You don’t have to roll over though, so keep researching to find a physician, and setup appointments with the doctors you can set up with. You’ll need multiple opinions anyway. You need to do everything in your power to solve the problem, and once you’ve exhausted all avenues, then you can be at peace. You may find a solution, you might not.

Join a forum for those dealing with this situation, you’ll likely find more solutions as well as people who are moving through the process.

You’re on the right track. Oh and you’re right about men with the scarring you’re talking about. They usually look badass, and I most certainly agree it is often perceived as more masculine. There are quite a few actors that have the scars you’re talking about. I don’t notice the scaring in a negative context.
Read this:

Expert Column: Dermatology in the Cinema from

Teaching Through Movies

Movies, therefore, teach our patients that skin conditions can represent evil. Can we turn the tables and use the medium for our benefit? What examples can we as physicians use to educate our patients?[A disclaimer is in order. None of the following individuals is a patient of mine. No clinical photos are shown, but rather publicity photos.]

Acne and Scarring

When informing patients about acne rosacea, it may be useful to discuss actress Cameron Diaz. Though her case is not as severe as that of W.C. Fields, she shows flushing and inflammatory lesions consistent with acne rosacea. Many actors have forms of acne, including Leonardo di Caprio, Madonna, Will Smith, and John Cusack. Patients may feel less isolated knowing that these celebrities share their condition.When inadequately treated, nodulocystic acne can result in scars. Treatment options for acne scarring are limited, so reassurance is valuable. Many actors have thriving careers despite acne scarring. These include character actors like Tommy Lee Jones and James Woods, and even leading men such as Nicolas Cage (Figure 4), Brad Pitt (with pitted scars), and Sean Connery, the original James Bond.

Figure 4. (click image to zoom) Nicolas Cage with acne scars on the cheek. (Collection of Vail Reese, MD)

It is more difficult to identify actresses with acne scarring. One rare example of an actress with acne scars is Elizabeth Hurley. Usually hidden with makeup and lighting, her scars can be seen in certain photos and some films.

Traumatic and surgical scars can be seen on Harrison Ford, Catherine Zeta-Jones, and Sharon Stone. This information can be used not only to reassure patients with facial scarring but also to stress that images of movie stars are routinely altered, made "perfect," placing a potential burden on the population as a whole who hope to emulate that perfection.

Beach Blanket Basal Cell Carcinoma

The movie business has wide-ranging influence on fashion trends. One of the most striking examples of this influence was the mid-20th-century trend toward sun tanning. The fashion of the Victorian era was sun avoidance; the upper classes stayed pale in part to distinguish themselves from lower-class workers who had to toil in the sun. Yet by the 1950s, the beach culture of Southern California spread worldwide via the movies. Annette Funicello and Frankie Avalon made a series of pictures promoting the bronzed look. With titles like How to Stuff a Wild Bikini and Beach Blanket Bingo, how could the fair-skinned people of the world resist?Actor George Hamilton (Figure 5) spent an inordinate amount of his career promoting the "healthy" tan, but the ill effects of chronic exposure to ultraviolet radiation have since become clear. Some celebrities who can act as examples of photodamage include Robert Redford, Clint Eastwood, and Brigitte Bardot.

Figure 5. (click image to zoom) George Hamilton made the promotion of tanning a part of his life’s work. (Collection of Vail Reese, MD)

A condition influenced by both sun and the hormone estrogen is melasma, a form of facial hyperpigmentation displayed by actress Courtney Cox. This cosmetic problem is difficult to clear, even with a combination of topical retinoids, hydroquinone, alpha hydroxy acid, and aggressive sunscreen use.

Aesthetics aside, what of the more serious complication of sun exposure: skin cancer? The diagnosis and treatment of US Senator John McCain’s melanoma skin cancers received international press attention and helped spread the word about sun avoidance. Though more common than melanoma, relatively fewer patients seem to be aware of nonmelanoma skin cancer. Many first learned of this condition when former actor and US President Ronald Reagan underwent the well-publicized removal of a basal cell carcinoma. TV personality Regis Philbin, actor Roger Moore, and former President Bill Clinton have all undergone treatment for basal cell carcinoma.

Given that the current epidemic of skin cancer may have been influenced by the behavior of movie actors, it is heartening to see the current trend of healthily pale performers. Significantly, a new generation of actresses has shunned tans, preferring a fair-skinned appearance, including Nicole Kidman (Figure 6), Drew Barrymore, and Angelina Jolie. These examples may be directed to young patients who appear overly tan.

Figure 6. (click image to zoom) Nicole Kidman is an excellent example of a fair-skinned beauty. (Collection of Vail Reese, MD)

The Benign and the Beautiful

Much of the role of a dermatologist is to reassure patients about the benignity of lesions, and using examples of actors with benign lesions is a rapid, effective way to achieve this goal. Beauty marks such as Marilyn Monroe’s are small, dark moles located near the eye or in the perioral area. Other patients may be reassured to know that singer Tina Turner has a port-wine stain vascular malformation, and actor Mark Wahlberg has an accessory nipple. Imagine the distress an adolescent male might experience with the discovery of a large, dark hairy plaque developing on his back or chest. Richard Gere has what appears to be a Becker’s nevus on his upper back (Figure 7). But given Gere’s longstanding career and generally virile roles (the lesion is visible in at least 3 movie love scenes), male patients may feel less shame knowing that they share their lesion with movie star Gere.

Figure 7. (click image to zoom) Richard Gere (shown here with Debra Winger in An Officer and a Gentleman) is not embarrassed to display his Becker’s nevus. (Collection of Vail Reese, MD)
Another trick I learned from growing up with women. When you have facial blemishes, see a professional make-up artist. You can find them locally. If you end up with permanent scars, you visit one of these fantastic people, and they’ll educate you on the proper make-up and technique for application on your particular skin type. There are people who specialize in dealing with this specific issue you’re facing.

This can help significantly decrease the severity of scars and is of benefit if you have little choice and still feel you want to minimize their appearance. If you’re forced to adapt, it’s good to know you aren’t without options. The world won’t end and you won’t be a monster. You have the support of people and your girl, so you’ll do just fine.
my face is not bad what so ever but i do have blemishes from the little acne ive had over the last year or 2, i just use concealer.

then again,i dont know how bad yours is?

Post pictures?
So I’m becoming more and more comfortable just being out again. Although sometimes I do think about the lighting and stuff, for the most part I can just socialize again, despite the scarring getting worse. Whenever people are standing close to me, I can always tell if they are looking me in the eyes or not, and I noticed that people just look at me in the eyes. I have found scars are just as psychological as they are physical.

But I admit, I am still having self-esteem problems. Like yesterday at work, I was chatting with the girl, and she mentioned she was going to a dinner and a party afterward, but she was very vague about it, but I didn’t question what the occasion was. Then she got out of work early and I was just like wtf wtf wtf and I just started feeling all paranoid, like I’ve always trusted her and never given second thoughts to anything but my lower self-esteem has made me more paranoid. I didn’t call her or text her or anything, because I didn’t want to annoy her….. but I felt like utter crap the rest of the workday…. like why didn’t she invite me to this event? etc. etc. and then I just imagined her getting all dressed up and pretty and then going out to party to hunt for guys and I was just like WTF why am I thinking of these things…..

After work I go to my new pad since I’m in the process of moving, and after I moved some stuff out of my car I just sat in the living room all depressed wondering what she is up to…. and then she texts me o_O asking me to come over and help her build a costume. I was just like huh…. it’s dinner time, I would of thought she’d by out by now…. but I went over and she was just in the living room all casual no make-up in her pajamas working on a costume….. and we ended up just hanging out, watching a movie, listening to music, making her costume till like 2am… and I asked about the dinner and party thing…. and she said she just ended up not going, and enjoyed spending time with me again…..

I just felt so stupid for being paranoid…. Never had paranoid thoughts like that before. Like I can look in the mirror and not cringe…. but I can’t say I feel good about myself. Maybe it will just take time to rebuild self-esteem

And it seems like every dermatopathologist is booked to the brink, the soonest appointment I could get was Feb.8th after calling 13 places. We need more doctors….. I’ll just keep calling, even if I have to drive a significant distance.

You’re very right, they have an enormous psychological impact, and you’re beggining to understand how to deal with it.

It’s important to express those questions to people, letting them know you would have liked to attended.

The effect of what you’ve gone through is still with you, that’s pretty much the sum of it.

Next time, communicate your feelings directly. It turned out for the best, but don’t keep things inside.

It’s ok man, it’s a part of the process. Try to face your fears and be honest with those you’re in contact with. You’re on the right track.

Good man. Did RateMD help?
So since my last post I have gotten worst.

Found some doctors that were actually passionate about helping me. The first doctor got 2 of the other doctors and spent quite a deal of time examining me and then going and discussing and researching, and CHARGED ME LESS THAN EVERYONE ELSE.

I knew very mild blackheads couldn’t cause this kind of damage, I fucking knew it. I couldn’t really afford any more advanced diagnostics, but they’ve pinned it down to three things

Atrophia maculosa varioliformis cutis
Atropherma vermiculatum
Lupus

They say that Lupus is the least likely one, but still possible. However, doing google research on all three is quite depressing really.

I’ve been extremely depressed lately. I don’t know what to do. I know other people probably don’t think I look as disgusting as I think I do, but I feel like crying when I see myself. I don’t know what to do. I don’t know what to do. I don’t know what to do. It’s impossible to stay positive, just fucking impossible. The scarring just keeps getting worse and worse and it won’t stop AND IT’S MADDENING. FUCKING MADDENING. Reading the descriptions is so depressing….. CAUSE THEY’RE UNTREATABLE. They’re so fucking rare that there isn’t much research as to what causes these things or how to treat them.

The scars are mainly superficial [shallow] but are frequent enough to cause an overall undulated[rolling] appearance, and the texture of my skin makes me want to gag. But since they’re shallow, supposedly they would respond well to an ablative skin resurfacing treatment. Only problem is, I’m half white half pacific islander so it would destroy the pigment in my olive skin, my face will always be white/pink while the rest of my body olive if I were to do these treatments to erase the scars.

Why do I have such shitty luck? Not gonna lie, been having suicidal thoughts =( I lost my job because I was basically not working and staring at the walls from depression. I’ve been too depressed to go job hunting. Just been thinking of ending it before I become a disfigured homeless man.
It could be much worse. Stop feeling sorry for yourself.

That’s unfortunate.

That was very kind of them.

Well the fact that they’ve attempted to figure it out is a good thing.

It’s not Lupus [/House]

Given the nature of the scarring, it is most probable to be the first one. It is possible immunosuppressive treatment might work if topically applied. It can’t hurt to try using Hydrocortisone Cream with a 25mg dose per serving of the cream. It’s a prescription. If this is immune system related, this could stop further progression. Additionally, intervention surgically by a plastic surgeon specialized in this, could repair the damage for a reasonable amount of money.

I doubt it’s Lupus. Seriously, Lupus would show up in other areas sooner than the skin alone.

I’ve given you an idea to stop the scarring. If I’m correct, it should work, and if I’m wrong, the treatment is harmless and won’t hurt you.

Diseases like this aren’t untreatable, it’s just that particular physician doesn’t know what to do because mainstream medicine doesn’t have a lot of experience with the condition. Trust me on this, someone "dose" have answers — it just takes ingenuity, just like my idea. Sometimes solutions are incredibly simple, it’s just people say "Oh well nothing can be done" and so they don’t seek it out. If immunity is causing the issue, even if it’s genetic, topical steroids would work.

That isn’t the only treatment available to remove or at least minimize the appearance of scaring. Ask a plastic surgeon who specializes in facial scaring and I guarantee I’m right. A dermatologist is not an authority on what can and can’t be accomplished in this area. Begin the process of getting a third opinion from an expert Dermatologist to see what he or she comes up with for a theory. Don’t tell him or her what the prior diagnosis is until the consult is almost over (The first appt).

Then, after you’ve finalized the third physicians opinion — I can help you find a very good physician for your final opinion if you like — then consult an exceptionally well trained facial plastic surgeon. I can help you find one of those too. We can begin with the basics by starting here

At this point in time it’s important to enter counseling while you also work on solving the problem. You’ll need emotional support to help you from being debilitated by the psychological aspect of what’s happening. If you are debilitated you will not be able to function in order to solve the problem. Anyone facing a crisis like this involving their appearance would experience depression and intense anxiety, so it’s important you understand why I’m recommending counseling.

This experience will pass, this depression will improve. Right now you need to look at finding a solution. Don’t let internet information or an opinion stop you from looking at the bigger picture. For a condition like this, the odds are more probable that a solution exists that is just not commonly used, rather than that no solution exists. You aren’t the first to experience this, so I’m certain of that. I also doubt the condition is as rare as claimed. It’s probably just not reported often by those with it.

Give me your Zip and City.

See? Look another possibility!

If he had a face that looked like a remote control, are you saying that he had raised bumps in the skin? Because destroying tissue is a lot easier than creating it. He only needed to remove tissue to remove his face "Buttons" but I have tissue loss, and regenerating tissue is a fucking bitch.

As for the Cortisone treatments, while they are used as an anti-inflammatory, they have a side effect in that they damage the skins fibroblasts, a building block in the mesh of the skin. While it might stop the inflammation, it would make my skin very weak and fragile and make the depressions deeper most likely.

Basically I’m just losing tissue in my face. Normally scar tissue like from acne binds the top layers down, making a scar that can feel hard to to the touch and looks the same when the skin is stretched. When I stretch my skin a lot of the depressions damn near dissappear. So I’ve been researching collagen induction therapies. The things I’m going to try are:

Iontophoresis and Tretinoin Needling

And then I’ll possibly try Fractional CO2 which I’ve heard does really well for asian skin types, but it’s a newer process and it’s EXPENSIVE AS FUCK.

Then there are newer procedures in development that are almost set for FDA clearance. Isolagen is a new one that might hit the market soon, where they grow and generate fibrolast from a tissue sample of yours in a laboratory tube, and then inject it into the skin where it is generated into tissue. But it is insanely expensive.

I just can’t do ablative processes, since I’m naturally tan, and it would leave my face with white and pink blotches for the rest of my life.

I’m just sooo depressed and feel dead inside, because for all these procedures it seems hard to find before and after pictures that don’t seem doctored and you hear sooooo many horror stories of people getting worse, it’s frightening. I feel anxiety everywhere I go. I feel like I’m aging super fast. It was depressing, the other day at the store I was with the gf, the store owner thought I was a 30+ year old dating a high school girl. This shit is making me look like I’m aging super fast. I’m fucking 21 for fucks sake, and my girlfriend is 23
I’d like to thank you guys for the support, I must sound like a big baby

I really don’t think it’s lupus and never did. The only thing that made me think it was possible lupus was that ever since the scarring started appearing I’ve also had rapid hair loss. The reason the hairloss was of HUGE concern to me was because neither side of my family has male pattern baldness. But I looked at lupus pics and lupus hairloss usually happens in asymmetrical blotches on the head, while my hairline is just receding rapidly and my hair has become incredibly thin. Another dermatologist said I had seborheic[sp?] dermatitis of the scalp, and said stress is probably contributing to the hairloss. I don’t really worry about the hairloss anymore since I’m hoping the medicated shampoo will make it grow back in 2-3 months, but it’s frightening showering, and seeing how much hair falls out when I shampoo.

It’s fucking pathethic, but lately going out in public, all I do is try and see other peoples imperfections to feel better about myself. It’s fucking sad. It’s like I’m constantly thinking about it instead of enjoying life, and it’s becoming a drain. I wish I could just not think about it.

My zip is 85208 and my city is Mesa, AZ

AZ Crew

Think of life as a poker game. You may have been dealt a bad hand but you can choose to draw another card and see what risk or opportunity awaits or you can give up and fold.

On another note, acne scarring is nothing compared to burn scars. Remember this guy?

He chose not to fold

Have you considered MB’s most important advice?

You sound like you’re past the point of helping yourself.

By counseling does he mean get a therapist? Don’t those cost money? I’m jobless and extremely tight on money right now, and I have not had good experiences with therapists in the past.

Your pessimism is profoundly crippling.

That’s why you don’t use large amounts. One application per day of a 25 mg cream spread across and into the areas affected would slow down the process. You’re welcome to talk to your physician about it. It’s do that or find another way.

If necessary a surgeon can simply tighten the skin at a later time once the issue stops proceeding, which apparently it does if I’m not mistaken.

Good, at least you’re looking at possibilities.

All of this will come down in price. Technology is advancing fast.

Maybe not, but I’m sure with more research another physician will have solutions. You must remember that people make a living on making people beautiful, the technology is unreal. It comes with a price tag, but surgeons are exceptionally skilled today in contrast to a decade ago.

What about all the success stories? You do understand you can research the physician or surgeon you work with. You aren’t at the mercy of seeing an incompetent doctor. You can research their history, malpractice documentation, as well as accreditation, and even what other patients have to say. We have the internet today, it’s nothing like it was.

I understand your anxiety, I know how incredibly difficult it is having to face literally losing your identity, the face you’re so familiar with. It’s real important that you look at your medical options, your financial options, pro-bono, insurance, etc. It’s important you talk about how you’re feeling. If you can afford counseling, it’s important you consider it.

You may need to look for a support group instead — which are free — if you don’t have the financial option of seeing a professional. Keep talking about it, express yourself as you have been, because if you don’t, things will be worse.

You sound like someone who is struggling with a life changing event that’s overwhelming them.

I know what you mean about the hair loss. My illness causes hair loss. It’s hard, but thankfully my hair has grown back with treatment. It’s not thin like it was. Hair is just hair, I can live without it, but I’d prefer not to. I can also live without my face, but I’m sure you’d like to keep yours.

Maybe it’s important you give into it and not beat yourself up for being human. Surrender to the need to see imperfections in others, let yourself do it. It’s important to realize that people aren’t perfect, that those who try to be are more imperfect, more miserable, and generally more out of control than those who accept themselves as they are.

I’m not telling you to accept what is happening to you and to give up, I’m telling you it’s ok to feel what you do.

I’ll see what I can do, but without insurance, money or any resources I can’t guarantee much.
I’m just having trouble staying positive. My mood swings like crazy. At times, I will feel like "Just concentrate on being financially successful, and when it stops, use all that good money to fix yourself! Just keep loving your gf the way you do and maybe she’ll look past the face!" and at other times I’m just like "Fuck this, fuck this, fuck this, I wish I were dead."

You’re so right about everything MB. After reading your posts, I look back at my posts and go "Wow, it’s almost like I just wanna keel over and die without trying"

I think I have Atrophia Vermiculata, and not atrophia maculosa varioliformis cutis. With atrophia maculosa varioliformis, it says a region of the face has a slight itch and redness, and in 2 days, a spontaneously formed scar appears on the face, that has no pigmented changes from the surrounded skin and does not change in shape size or form. My initial scars have grown and spread, and a lot of the scars are either red, or darker than the surrounding skin, which are the symptoms of atrophia vermiculata. some of the initial scars have the "honeycomb" effect already.

I found this today, so first thing tomorrow morning I’m calling the doctor and asking for an accutane script. It’s the only documented case of putting the advancement of the disease into remission. And I looked at the accutane side effects, and I can deal with them if it saves my face

It’s understandable, seriously. I know all too well what you’re going through.

You may not even have to wait. Solutions will come if you keep your head on straight. Stay clear thinking and a solution will be found.

We tend to see ourselves in a much darker light than others. I look in the mirror and usually don’t like what I see, but my girlfriend thinks I’m gorgeous. She’s always saying how sexy and hot I am. I look in the mirror and I see sickness, weariness, fatigue, exhaustion, and disappointment.

You can’t roll over, you’re not such a pussy that you’d toss in the towel over a face would you? I mean it’s rough yeah, no doubt about that, but you’re not losing your life. You’ve got a lot to be grateful for, so don’t lay down over an obstacle of vanity. Everything fails and dies in this world, everything falls apart, it’s not a matter of if, but when. This obstacle can’t be used as an excuse to cop out when you know how much harder it could be.

Assume it’s the one that’s easier to treat.

Smart move. Throw in some Tetracycline while you’re at it. It can’t hurt you as long as you’re not allergic and it’s dirt cheap. 500mg to 1,000 mg is more than enough.
Be careful with accutane and only use it as a last option

a lot of really good therapists will delay payments etc. just ask around and see if any of them will help.

when i saw my therapist i was dead broke. i needed help though so i found a super kind lady that helped me out. she only charged me $20 per session. her usual rate was like $75/session – after i got better and had money i repaid everything back to her.

there are good therapists out there that do it because *gasp* they actually want to help people
Doctor said she couldn’t see me again until the 28th, but I’m also calling everyday to see if I can get in from a cancellation.

I really do need counseling. I’ve been calling my parents endlessly and kind of made them my counselor, but they don’t know what to do really, I feel like I’m just annoying them now.

And I think I’ve lost heaps of self-esteem just by how things in my relationship bother me now. Over the weekend, we were hanging out with the SO’s two friends, one is her ex. Well, if it was just three of us, I could understand her sitting in the front seat of his car with him, but there were four of us, I would of just thought that she would sit in the back with me. But I tried to not let it bother me much, since she broke up with him.

She slept over that night, and when we woke up we chatted for a bit……. then I looked at her and said… "I love you." I’ve never said it, but it’s how I felt, I really love this girl. I love every moment with her. All my past relationships have failed quite fast just I grew quickly intolerant of the other person. But I enjoy being around her so much…..

After I said it….. she just had this terrible look on her face, and turned away. My chest sank in like never before…. I didn’t know what was going on. I felt like crying…. I was like…. is it my face?!?!? No… please I hope not =( Does she not feel the same way? Am I just a friend with benefits to her?!?! We sat there for the most awkward 5 minutes of my life. Then she says…. "why?" and I just say "I don’t know. It’s the way I feel. I enjoy every moment with you." Then she turned her head away again and started balling. I didn’t know what the fuck was happening. Another awkward 5 minutes of not saying anything and her crying ensued. I finally asked her, "what’s wrong?" and she said, "I’m scared." and I’m like, "Scared of what?!?!?!"

Then….. another 5 minutes of awkward silence ensued. Then she finally says "I’m scared of when you’ll stop loving me. Every other guy that said they loved me stopped."

Holy shit, that was a huge relief. I’m a big pussy and teared up a bit from the confusion. Then she said "You’re the best thing that’s ever happened to me. You’re the best boyfriend I’ve ever had. I love you. I love you."

Felt soooooo good.

I’ve also had a string of good luck with part time work, but I still need a full time job. Made a few hundred bucks for an A/V company settings up trusses and projectors.

Still having an insanely hard time staying positive. I just feel real depressed all day. WHY?!?!

Good, try to get in. See another if you must, but keep working on it.

I agree, you do. As far as whether you’re annoying your parents or not — just ask them straight out whether it’s ok or not if you can continue talking to them. Tell them to be honest with you, that you don’t want to be a burden. Most people will answer honestly.

She’s with you, not him. It’s unfortunate you’re suffering so much. It’s important you get a hold on this fear, else it may end up tearing your relationship apart. She seems to sincerely care about you deeply, at least based on the feeling I get (I’m rarely wrong).

Wow, that must have been difficult to do. Even I have trouble doing that.

She’s scared that you won’t love her back, it’s a common reaction. If it were anything else she would already have left you.

Told you.

It’s ok to feel. Intimate bonds form in the face of adversity and challenges. These events are good for you both.

Positive things are happening. You’ll find an answer, it’s just going to take more time. Hang in there. Don’t try to stop the depression or the feelings. Trying to repress them only makes them stronger. Feel your pain, cry, express it. It’s really ok, it’s the right thing to do.
You know, I dont think Ive ever seen someone on the internet, have some other total strangers’ back so solidly when the other guy is obviously hurting. Hope that makes sense, because I cant quite figure out how to word it haha…….in short, im impressed. Metallic Blue, youre a damned good person.

And tourtreaux, sounds like youve got some good potential solutions in front of you now…..keep your chin up man.
I’m sorry. Self image issues are very hard to deal with. Everyone telling you not to sweat it and it’s not that bad just don’t know.

You have several options:

Learn to live with it. You don’t have to be physically attractive to make friends or date attractive women. You’ll simply need to learn some skills to do so.

Get counseling. This is something you should do no matter what. Regardless of how stupid or useless please do.

See two kinds of doctors. A dermatologist if you haven’t. I don’t know how much they’ll be able to do, but it’d still be a good idea. Also, see a reputable cosmetic surgeon in your area. A good surgeon should be able to aid you greatly. This may be expensive, so you may need to save up, but in the end it’ll be more than worth it.

But please realize, this last option may not leave you looking perfect. No one is though, so don’t sweat it. I have scars on my arm from cutting myself and random injuries from sports.

I didn’t know you suffered from self injury. I support a group called "To Write Love On Her Arms" — it’s a support network for people suffering from self injury (cutting) depression, addiction, etc.

Check it out sometime, I know more than I’d like to about self injury. It’s a deeply painful thing to live with, or in some people’s cases — a numb void.

If you’re still serious about hope and help, check this group out.

I don’t do it anymore. I wasn’t really much of a cutter. I just have one long scar down my left forearm. It’s not something I feel an impulse to do and I feel very resolved about it, but I certainly appreciate the reply.

Are there scars inside too? Who was it who hurt you? You don’t have to answer, I just wanted to let you know that I know how it feels.

I don’t know that anyone hurt me. I’ve thought about it and talked to therapists about it, but it doesn’t seem to be clear that anyone did in fact hurt me, instead it seems like a continuing theme of loneliness and bad luck.

I wish I could be more helpful in knowing how you arrived where you are, but I really don’t know. All I can tell you is that I’ll be more sensitive to listening from now on.

Maybe some how an answer can be found to take the place of that loneliness and back luck.
So I dumped my gf….. she’s an unfaithful whore.

I shouldn’t be surprised though. She was originally my friends gf….. this wasn’t a close friend, someone I had been hanging out with for a few months. Basically we started hanging out and she would go on about how much she hated the relationship with him. Then one day bam we sleep together behind his back. I didn’t feel bad about it because I thought the relationship with him was so unfulfiling that we weren’t doing anything wrong…… but the fact is, she was cheating and I was screwing my friends gf…….

I don’t know. Now that I know the pain of her getting stuffed by another guy, I totally feel the pain of my friend. I’m starting to think everything happening to me is KARMA. Karma has back-handed me with all it’s might.

And before we became "official" she kind of flaunted how she cheated on him with not only me, but with another guy. And also how she cheated on a guy she was once engaged too.

Honestly, I should of known… "once a cheater, always a cheater" and never made her my gf. Honestly, she was really cool, I really did feel the chemistry, I really did love her. But, just her personality, she is a broken person. No matter how awesome a guy she is with is, she will still be prone to cheating.

It seems that whatever has happened to me has slowed down quite a bit. Hopefully I can start some kind of scar treatments. Just doing research and research.

I’m been super depressed since cutting her out of my life. I feel so angry. But then I think, maybe I deserve this. But then I get angry again. And then I think, when is karma going to strike her. And it’s just constant thoughts about the whole situation. I’m fucking miserable. I finally got a job, but I’m really fucking up. I can’t concentrate. I obsessively think about her and my scarring. I can’t keep a train of thought. And then when I get home…. it’s just so depressing. I was so used to hanging out with her almost every other day or more, and then now, I just go home by myself. I just constantly feel this need for revenge, then remind myself that it probably isn’t worth the trouble. All I know is that my mind has fallen off the map. I just feel psychotic. And it seems like problems that took absolutely forever to get rid of have come back full blown. Mostly anxiety problems and OCD. And depression, although ?I think that never went away.

Gonna try and jump back on lexapro, I haven’t been on the stuff for like 3 years. It did wonders for me though, despite the nasty side effects. Hopefully I can stabilize and move on with my life.

I just can’t believe how things can turn around just like that. I felt like I reached a point of happiness again….. and then bam, it’s gone. Everything feels so grey. Life is all too painful sometimes…… that or I’m just a weak-minded coward.

I wish the pain would go away.

That’s actually one of the red flags on my list: "Cheater." — If they’ll cheat with you, they’ll cheat "on" you.

Bingo.

That’s about the sum of it. Do good things, and good things will happen to you, do bad things, and…well, bad things will happen. We don’t alway see it directly in the lives of others. In-fact we often see what we want to see, meanwhile payback is a bitch and the person is going to bed at night crying themselves to sleep. The facades we wear are worthless. It’s what we’re experiencing inside that dictates our experience.

Another red flag on my list for dating women is — never date a woman who talks about her boyfriend when first meeting you, or who talks badly about him.

Karma will come for her too. I wouldn’t worry though, and I wouldn’t wish her dead, because let’s face it, she’s already dead inside.
It seems that whatever has happened to me has slowed down quite a bit. Hopefully I can start some kind of scar treatments. Just doing research and research.

The best way to overcome the "I deserve it" part is to reverse the things you’ve done. Make up for them. Make ammends, and take responsibility. Life is a whole lot better when you do that.

This will pass. You may have to reconsider that counseling we talked about.

Combine it with counseling and you’re have a one two punch. Might as well solve the problem if you’re going to treat the symptoms.

Life can really hurt sometimes, but if it can turn badly as quickly as it did, it can also turn positive. Do what you can to make it happen, and do what you can to make things right for yourself. What goes around comes around, so it would be best to start putting something positive out there.
all i can say is this: "its never as bad as it seems. you are your own worst critic."

you’ve heard it before, but it is the truth.
I don’t recommend using accutane if you have this severe of depression. It has been linked to cause it, and it can probably make some things worse. And I have a friend with this(I assume he had it, looking at the pics it looks like his). He was the nicest, sweetest kid ever. How his face looked was NEVER an issue for me. If you have true friends, they will not care about outside appearances. I never do. And if someone does care so much about how you look, then obviously they are not worth the time. I had a bf with bad acne scarring. It didn’t change how I looked at him at all.

And I have dealt with acne all my life. It started in about 4th grade and is still an issue if I do not delicately wash my face properly and enough. When I was sitting in class once, I turned around to answer another kids question. He stared at me, and asked if what was happening with my face was natural. THAT is mentally hard. I still carry that sentence with me. But I have learned to get over it. I have learned that its what is on the inside that counts, and not physical appearance. And if you find someone who cares so much, as I said before, they are obviously not worth your time. I recently had a HORRIBLE break out. Huge cystic acne all over my chin and cheeks, and the worse was the huge one on my nose(and now that its gone im sure left a scar). He still wanted to see me, he still wanted to be intimate with me. If you find someone worthwhile, appearance doesn’t matter. It is NO reason to feel down on yourself, you still have the person inside, and that hasn’t been pitted and torn apart, I know there is the strong person in you somewhere.

I advise you to start using face wash/moisturizer brand Cetephil(or store brand). It has nothing in it that might aggrivate your face, its safe enough for baby skin, and has nothing drying or anything that will clog your pores. It is the only thing that I will use. I don’t know if there is anything else you are using, but the fact it has NOTHING in it may help if you are using something over the counter.

And I also leave you with one of my favorite quotes:

The purest beauty lives on the inside and seeps through your every pore…..

It reminds me that beauty should be seen from within, not from shallow looks only beauty.

Start venturing out again. I can guarantee that your face isnt going to get many stares in today’s acne ridden world.
I used to have the worst acne before. Now I got it cleared up with alot of things mainly Accutane. Life is adversity. Just don’t make it worse by letting everyone see that you feel affected by it. People are also attracted to confidence and good vibes, not just a pretty face.

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1) I wouldn’t have acne issues
2) That I wouldn’t let it control me like it does.

Well, what the fuck.

I take only 2 meds, Retin A as my creme, Minocycline as the pill. Minocycline works fine a good majority of the time. I took it 3 times over a 3 weeks period lately because i had my tonsils taken out and they didn’t want me to take it with all the pain killers i was on.

i still put on my retin a. over 3 weeks my face cleared up and improved. i guess the amount of water i drank helped.

well, im off the pain killers and over the past 3 days, i have broken out big time. i dont understand it. im back on my minocycline. im still keeping my water uptake the same.

BULL SHIT

I’m broke. I have worked twice in 3 1/2 weeks. At this point I don’t care about anything but having a clear face. It gets me through the day and it helps me be nice to people in some form or another. When I have break outs, I take out my frustration on everyone possible.

I sent my dermatology office a email saying I need an appointment ASAP. I’m pretty sure they won’t tell me anything new. They’ll attempt to put me on some other creme or pill that won’t work.

I just hate my skin. Honestly, this is retarded, i’m 25. If there is a god, he can go fuck himself for cursing me with this shit.
I cannot recommend Roaccutane/Accutane (same thing) enough.

Get on it.
Ahh, all too familiar territory with me. I’ve been there too. Here is my experience:

-Minocycline: Great product, but as you said, you break out even more after you use it.. usually after 3 weeks of finishing the product.

-Retin A: Decent product, for the minor case.

-Accutane: Uh huh, probably the best one around. Good luck getting your derma to prescribe this. There are usually things to consider. Like, if he has put you on the same meds 3 times within a year, he may prescribe this. Also, there are side effects. I see you are getting angry… I had a friend go on accutane, worked miracles on his skin, but he was always angry and even threatened to kill his sister in front of his one day (found out that the meds he was taking gave him the anger side effect).

My reccommendations:
After trying all of these, make sure you do the follow.
A.) See what you are allergic too. You may be having an allergic reaction causing these breakouts.
B.) Cut back on the chocolates and anything else that has been "myth" to cause breakouts.
C.) Wash your face 3 times a day. Usually some Johnson & Johnson clean and clear wash will do it. Results won’t be over night but you’ll start to notice.
D.) If you play sports or do anything physical that makes you sweat, make SURE to take a shower after all the sweating.

I hope this all helps.
Have you ever been on Accutane? I was seeing a doctor who simply wasn’t going to put me on it. I kept getting creames and pills that not only didn’t help, but actually just turned my face bright right… not to mention each trip to the pharmacy cost $100+.

I moved to a new state two summers ago and was forced to see a new dermatologist, who put me on Accutane right away.
I have the same problem, I had a flawless face thru highschool and college and now that I’m rounding 25, I’ve been breaking out! It sux ASSS!!! So I know how ya feel…

Accutane, i’ve heard there are some serious mental/emotional issues that happen when you take that. Maybe that just happens with highschoolers and their damn hormonal issues. i dunno.

So far I use Burts Bees Herbal Blemish Remedy, it’s a roll on stick and works well, and than I also use St. Ive’s Apricot scrub and that seems to do the trick…
Ohhh and use anything containing TEA TREE OIL (any body shop will have it) it’s a good natural way for use on acne w/out having to ingest pills.

Throwing it out there!
I have HORRIBLE breakouts and have had them all through middle school on.

I HIGHLY RECCOMEND CETAPHIL!!!!!!

I used every acne med and product ever. I have found that my face must not like all the other crap I put on it and all the extra products. I use the cetaphil bar soap that has antibacterial protection. Their lotion for face is also excellent because it won’t clog pores. I also do a scub with baking soda/baking powder/sugar(one of them) once or twice a week.

My mom works at Sephora, which has all the high end face washes to improve acne, they only made it worse. After returning to use just cetaphil, I noticed a difference within about a week.

Its worth a try in my opinion.
My brother had serious outbreaks but i never had a pimp due to my lifestyle.

My brother ate chocolate and fats, and didn’t work out a lot.

I never ate chocolate or any other greasy stuff, and would go jogging 3 times a week. A non fat diet is what worked for me. But you can also be allergic, A friend of mine was allergic to Mustard, got pimps all over his face.

There is this thing. You know when you eat , you can actually feel it, if your skin starts feeling strange after eating a certain product, then ‘that’s’ the product you want to avoid. The Pimp remover creams and medicines might actually sometimes induce pimps, because they clean too deep, and the holes or pories can wonderfully filled up with even more bacteria causing more pimps.

My brother lost his pimp problem after he started using yeast creme. It was pretty effective. So healthy lifestyle + no fats/chocolate or eating stuff you are allergic to + jogging + good nights sleep , could improve your situation.
heck even at 35, i still get breakouts from time to time. surely not in the amount that the OP does, but still. basically,when i start breaking out, its time to get my hair cut short again. my hair, holds too much oil (even with as half bald as i am), and i get real bad breakouts on my scapl, forehead, and around my ears.

try buzcutting or something! if your hair might be acting like a sponge… then eliminate the sponge!
my face actually isnt too bad today. i drank 64 ounces of water before going to bed and doubled up on my minocycline dosage which seems to be the key sometimes. i was put on acutane and yes, it made me ANGRIER than fuck. and it wasnt just it made me angry, i felt down and out and lazy. grumpy. which in turns with my personality…made me hateful.
wow, your too unstable

i took accutane, the only problem i had was chapped lips
what’s worse than pimples are scars. srsly.

good thing im not that insecure
Try cetaphil…. its cheap at any drugstore/target.. atleast give it a week to see if you notice any change…. You actually might be able to get a coupon on their website…..
Cetaphil is awesome.

One thing I noticed is since I cleaned up my eating habits my skin is freaking out big time. I don’t know if it is my skin reacting to my body detoxing somewhat but my skin hasn’t been this bad in years.
Accutane – get it.

I did EVERYTHING – minocycline, tetracycline, creams, pills. Its all bullshit. Accutane will clear you up.

There are some serious probable side effects when you take Accutane. You can have mental issues, you can’t give blood, get anyone preggers, etc.

For me, my skin peeled like I had a sunburn for the first few weeks and then my lips were perma-chapped the entire time I was taking it. However, I NEVER break out anymore. I only regret not getting on it earlier. Get it.
Late 30′s here (shit that sounds terrible am I that old?)…I break out once in a while.

My wife’s skin is flawless. She looks 10 years younger then she is.

She’s been guiding / scolding me to treat my skin in the following ways:

* keep my face clean. Stop touching my face during the day after having touched a million things.

* treat my skin almost like it was it’s own living thing. Don’t use anything abrasive, don’t use hot water when washing my face, don’t overly dry it out, etc. She says the skin has a way of trying to repair itself when you damage it too much…and some of that involves overproduction of oils.

* keep pillows clean

* finally use some form of mild moisturizer to prevent the skin from producing excessive oils. It’s painful how much money some of my wife’s skin care products cost…but having tried some of the stuff she’s recommended, it’s worked better then the stuff the dermatologists used to give me in my teens.

Overall I’d recommend using the dermatologist’s suggestions to a certain degree, but from my experience you have to experiment with some alterations in your daily habit to see if those are the root of the cause as well. Just as you wouldn’t expect a diet pill to get rid of body weight by itself without exercise.

When I started eating better, I found that my face did this too, and my face looked every worse..

But.. when i got off of my good eating kick, my face backed off and returned to normal.. I dunno if its just used to all the american greasy food or what?

I have no clue. Almost makes me want to go back and start eating crap food again. but I feel sooooo much better aside from my skin being an asshole I mean, it’s not like I have such bad acne I need Accutane but it’s bad enough to piss me off
yea.. my skin is weird.. but i have found that just sticking to cetaphil and a moisturizer (i am not using dove intensive care or something) that wont clog pores, is hypoallergenic and all that junk, and using Seabreeze toner and using a cetaphil/baking soda scrub like once a week helps a lot.

I honestly think all that expensive crap for the face doesn’t help nearly as much yet.
I’ve never had huge problems with break outs but tanning clears my face up too.

Having said that, if you wear any makeup, the quality of makeup you use makes a difference (I’m assuming you might be a girl….). Since I switched to Lancome foundation and Chanel powder, I’ve noticed a difference. Mind you I don’t wear makeup every day. But MAC makes me breakout, and the drugstore stuff? Forget it.
My mother went on accutane about 15 years ago. She never broke out again after it. I’m about half way through my second month.
I used to break out horribly but I was also about 70 lbs overweight, ate shitty food, and was never active. Since losing the weight and living healthy the acne has gone away. Just something to think about if your lifestyle isn’t so healthy.
Let’s all stress out about acne and take pills for acne then stress that they aren’t working until it becomes an unnatural, unstoppable cycle…

…wait a moment.
My suggestion is:

Limiting showers to once every two days.

Stop washing your face.

Stop using product.

Use up your pills until they are gone.

Stop caring about how you look, it’s not like you can think your way out of this one.

Allow the oil production to fall into a steady routine.

Voila.

See what you’re like when you just accept the fact you "have" acne. Learn to deal with that new you. And boom, it’s gone.
I break out when I get stressed out.

worst thing ever and it happens all to often lately.

Yeah, I had a friend in high school who went on Accutane. He also started working out… a lot.

He became a little dangerous to be around.

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In short, I really, really dig this girl and the feeling is mutual, but we both have reservations about our own beliefs getting in the way down the line. Hell, when I learned of her semi-strong religious convictions, it took a pretty heavy toll on my conscience.

btw, I’m Christian/American and she’s Asian/Muslim.

It depends on the people in the marriage, but it can work out just fine. Usually it depends on if one person is overly religious or if their religion is very strict on these sorts of issues, but in general, it can work out just like a normal marriage.
The thing that hit me like a ton of bricks was today when she said that she has to make the trek to Mecca at some point in her life. After the trip, she HAS to wear a scarf. She doesn’t have to cover her face, but has to wear a scarf at least around her hair…kind of freaked me out.

Makes me wonder why God would want to cover such a pretty face. Doesn’t make much sense to me, even though Christians and Muslims have the same God.
my dads catholic my mom is baptist i believe they celebrated 28 or 29 years recently (maybe even more than 30)
The divorce rates are slightly higher for those in marriages of different religious affiliations and for different ethnic backgrounds. So the numbers are stacked against you. You have to have acceptance and confidence about one anothers uniqueness and be free of insecurities and judgments. It makes it easier if you are both "americanized" because that’s a huge part of where you came from.
Yes as long as one of them isn’t Muslim.

Oh whoops I just read the first post.

Now let me explain. I believe that any two people from any two religions could get married and be just fine as long as they came to an agreement and laid out the rules for how they were going to do things before they got married and before they had kids. No problems potentially.

That being said, I would be afraid of the girl’s family if I married a Muslim. Is this based partly on stereotypes? Yes. But also what I saw in college. And also about the story I saw on the news where a Muslim chick married a non-Muslim and her family burned the girl and her husband to death. Psycho.

I dated an Indian (Gujurati) girl (Hindu) for 3.5 years and almost all the issues in our relationship came from her family. She and I got along perfectly together because neither of us were really religious and we had the same views on everything.

The only way religion could get in the way is if it’s a religious with crazy laws (like "any kids HAVE to be raised in x religion") or if both people have very strong, opposing views (like a witch and a Christian).

But if her family is crazy fundamentalist Muslims, then it probably won’t work. And if you guys got a divorce, they probably wouldn’t welcome their daughter back into their family.

If she has strong religious beliefs that you disagree with, then the answer is no, it won’t work, because down the line she will choose her belief system over you/yours.
If she’s going to follow her beliefs when they hurt the relationship, no.

If she’s willing to look at it rationally, and realize that the relationship is more important than following strict religious beliefs and make compromises, then yes.

Personally, I would not be willing to marry someone who wore the scarf, etc, but that’s an issue that some people wouldn’t care about. I would worry more about the other strict beliefs than I would the head scarf.

I’ve never understood the significance of a covered or uncovered head. We seem to attach all sorts of meaning to this and the meaning changes depending on our culture/upbringing and waht not. To me it’s all just silliness.

Oh and of course 2 people from different religions can have happy marriages. It’s perhaps more difficult than other marriages but it’s totally possible.

IMO communication before getting married is the key. Will the kids be raised catholic or muslim or other? Will the family attend mass or the service provided by muslim(don’t know the name), etc.

There are so many things that should be discussed before marriage. These things seem simple but they can cause HUGE problems down the line.
my dad is christian and my stepmom is mormon. they have been married 16 years, go to different churches every sunday. it works for them

then again, they dont have any kids together. my dad raised my brother and i in his church and my stepbrothers went to church with my stepmom, so im sure there would have been more things to figure out if they were trying to pick a religion for the kids

i think its possible, but its going to take more work, compromise, understanding and communication than a couple who has the same background and religious beliefs
I know 3 couples where one is catholic and the other is jewish. 2 couples have kids and they all seem to work it out just fine
Each party must have superb communication skills and the emotional depth to understand and respect the other side. If the idea of her wearing a headscarf freaks you out, you need to get to the bottom of why it evokes that reaction in you and understand fully what the significance of wearing one means to her. That’s just one of the many "issues" you will face.

I’d say a large percentage of these types of relationships don’t work out because a. the necessary level of communication isn’t there and b. familial pressure to do certain things or act a certain way makes it difficult. That’s in addition to having different sets of core values. In short, you really have to believe in the merits of each other and the relationship.
It can work. You should probably figure out what you’re going to do if you decide to have kids and how to raise them. That can be a major conflict.
Thanks a lot for the responses, guys. There’s a few issues tearing me both ways with this girl. However, when we’re together and I’m looking at her face, I don’t think about any of them. They all just seem to kind of…disappear I guess.

We’re both pretty level-headed, but like most people have stated, some things would have to be laid out up front. I’m actually in the middle east right now and we both work at the same place, so in about 7 months (or sooner!) I’m going to have to make some major decisions about this girl. I’ve never really been in love, so I know what it is NOT, but I think this might be the first time. She’s not perfect in every way, but I’m still finding that I want to spend almost every second with her.

I think I’m slowly starting to convince her that some things in her religion are optional, but I need to convince her slowly and with facts. Like Cthalupa said, if she’s going to follow her religious principles when they hurt the relationship, then things might not work out. Otherwise, I can respect her religion and her mine without too much conflict. It hasn’t bothered me to this point and we’ve been together for 8 or so months, so…

Anyway, cheers.
It can work out and Ive seen it happen where they dont have a problem. Usually if you can get through dating with each other it shouldn’t be a problem after the marriage if it hasn’t arrised after dating seriously. When it becomes a problem from what Ive seen is when they start having kids.
im pretty sure her family won’t approve.
In muslim culture, woman arn’t supposed to marry a man outside the faith, however, a man can marry outside his faith as long as the woman’s moral convictions follow his.
This is what was told to me by a Muslim spiritual leader when i was in Africa
You sure can, I am a product of such a marriage.
Mom Catholic, Father Jewish. In the beginning there was conflict between the families but I never see a couple who loves each other more then my parents.

I believe this is correct.

Can two people of two different religions and cultures be happily married? Yes.

Can you two? Depends on how much you two (and your families) are willing to compromise.

How old is she? At a younger age, a lot of Muslim girls say that BS about going to Mecca for pilgrimage. Look, if she was that devoutly Muslim, she would not be in a pre-marital relationship, that too with a non-Muslim. These two things go against the tenets of the religion if you follow it hardcore. The fact that she’s dating you tells me that she might not practice it very much.

So, when she brought up pilgrimage, this is her way of pushing your boundaries and figuring out how much you would give in. This is also her way of assuaging her guilt if her parents are strict. For example, she’s talking about pilgrimage now. In the future, when you get more serious, she might talk about raising the kids as Muslim, or maybe you converting to Islam. I am not saying she will definitely do this, but I am giving you examples on how women try to test a man’s boundary in similar relationships.

What part of Asia is she from? South? Tell me the age/country of origin/if her parents are in the US, and I could point you towards similar couples.
What makes you say "semi-strong"? What’s with the "semi"?

I dated a Muslim girl once, she was crazy and had to have me convert or else (her family blah blah). She even offered me her virginity before marriage, but she was pretty much adamant that I converted.
I just read the post about you being in the Middle East.

Sounds like she may not be as devout as I would have assumed (i.e. she’s Muslim just because of her environment–even if she doesn’t care for it). But the problem is the environment…and more importantly her family. They’re probably going to be much less accepting of you than a Muslim family in the states for example.
I’ve known a few Christian and Muslim hook ups… but about half the time someone has converted.

Yes, I agree. Her: 24/Indonesian/Qatar. It’s a special case. We’re both ex-pats working in Qatar. I’m 25 and from the US and will be here for a minimum of 7 or 8 more months. We’ve been dating for roughly 8 months. She still lives with her family in an Indonesian/Filipino/Arabic community sponsored by big oil companies.

Her parents seem to be quite strict, but her brother is dating a white girl from Canada. They were pretty pissed when they found out about that, but that was years ago and the adversity has since subsided. Yeah, she might try to convert me, but it probably won’t happen…mainly because I don’t want to be praying 5 times/day .

I could see myself with this girl long term, but the only thing that is holding me back is the fact that she states she’ll eventually have to cover her hair with a scarf…that really freaks me out. She seems like a liberal muslim to me except in times like this, which makes me quite sad to think about. I can deal with the cross-cultural boundaries, as my (white) sister just married one of my best friends (Mexican). The religious barricade is the biggest boundary I have to overcome.

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I see it like this, if you look at the global markets, the whole world is just begging for ground compounds like ,steel, oil, copper. So if i where you id get a good paying job as a ground product supplier. Look at what the market needs and play in on that demand.
So basically, screw the world, I’m making money so therefore I am happy?

I look at it differently. My sister has followed her passion and is doing a job she loves as an art consultant. The money is not great by any stretch but she loves what she is doing.

My cousin became an engineer for a mining company. Makes a shitload of cash but can’t stand what he does. Gets absolutely no job satisfaction, but turns up because the money is good and he needs to make the repayments on all the needless crap he has.

Which one of these do you more want to be?

And, for the record, I’m in the middle. Love my job and make good money doing it, but that destroys my point.
I think what Darketernal is saying is that if you don’t know what you want to do in your life, just go for the money, even if you’ll hate the job, at least you have money for your hobbies on the weekend.

My mom tells me the same thing (sorta) and tells me to save up and then enjoy it when you do figure it out.

Sometimes it’s just not possible to find a job you like that you can actually support yourself on. If that was possible, everybody would be a rockstar or a professional surfer.
I’m in the same boat. I have two more years left and have no clue what to do and I’ve been stagnating. I’m so apathetic it’s disgusting. What to do about it? I don’t know man I haven’t figured that out yet. I guess keep your head up and eyes peeled for something that interests you. Definitely don’t stay in one place. Move around and do stuff even if you don’t like it. That is the only way you’re going to discover something new that you might want to pursue. i.e. Study abroad, internship, weird ass job, travel

I’m not a christian but I might go with my Uncle to Africa for missionary work because you never know.

Yea, you just gotta keep trying things out. What major were you in college?

Hell, I’ll use my dad as an example. He did Biochem at UPenn then did Vet School there. Figured out he didn’t really want to go into practice, but he found his toxicology classes interesting so he talked to his toxicology professors. The one thing that definately made him get a PhD in toxicology is when he was just in the library studying with some friends and saw a toxicology journal out of the corner of his eye. He picked it up and found a guy working at Texas A&M that could use some help. Got in contact with the guy, moved out to Texas for a few years, got his PhD, moved back to PA and then found a job. It was all pretty random, but the thing is he pursued things. He was so set on being a vet, but he ended up working in the pharmacuetical industry.

Maybe try your college’s career center? They might have some tests or something to help you out? Although I don’t personally think those tests help that much since they’re so limited, but it’s worth a shot.

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