I use this analogy often…. If you break your leg, and the bone is sticking clear out of your skin…. would you wanna fix the leg, or only take pain meds so you don’t feel the pain? Obviously…. you fix whats causing the pain, not the pain itself. Pain is a symptom of a problem. Fix the problem, not the symptom. My 2 cents for what it’s worth.

There is no max out. They put a person on "cocktails"…several meds at time once the one pill routine doesn’t work anymore.

There is no max out?…. mmmk….. So, why would they need an additional pill if you cannot max out on one pill? Hmm… maybe to avoid the debilitating side effects of getting off the first pill?
Only as an absolute last resort, im in the same row as 2500 , a problem remains to be a problem till the end of time until you fix it,

problem solving > problem suppressors.
You’re just going to get a bunch of comments from people who aren’t qualified to talk about medication.

Unfortunately depending on the context of illness, we’re not always in control of our thoughts.

The best thing a person using medications for mental health can do is also enter therapy and visit their doctor regularly to work on improving mental health.

As far as people living well, that isn’t really the truth. The quality of life was much more difficult, the lifespan shorter, and pain and suffering related to mental health was taboo to discuss socially.

Medications will always have a place, but until therapy becomes more socially acceptable, and easier to aquire, people will turn to medications which are often cheaper to pay for with medical insurance than therapy. More insurance companies cover medications over therapy, and on average medications are cheaper than the standard 70-120 hourly fee for therapy, which must be continued for weeks, months or even years to improve certain mental health conditions.

Some medications must be increased over time, and so do not. For example I’m on Wellbutrin, but I’m also on Ativan. I use both in a chronic fashion, thus I’ve been on them for years.

The Wellbutrin doesn’t change, but the Ativan does. The body adapts over years to the Ativan, and eventually you reach a point where you have no choice but to begin going backwards to slowly get off it, then another medications must be used eventually.

Another important aspect of your analogy is that should a person break their leg, pain medications should in-fact be given to suppress symptoms in order to attempt to improve the person’s quality of life, while surgical, or manipulative techniques are used to stabilize, and aid the correct healing of the injury.

Thus, therapy in conjunction with medical care, as well as medication intervention are often just as important in some mental health cases as is pain medication to a physical injury.

The issue is quality of life, not attempting to mask symptoms, but people are often unaware of their options and what they should do because care providers often assume the patient should just know this logical sequence of care. The best care providers hold your hand when dealing with sending you to specialists and communicating in simple terms what they’re attempting to do to help you.

If you decide to not do your homework and you just go out and buy the first car you see, it’s hit or miss. You might buy a Honday Accord and end up with solid reliable transportation, or you might buy a 1986 Lebaron and end up breaking down constantly. It’s always your fault and your responsibility for the consequence of choosing or accepting to see bad doctors, even if you don’t know your options.

I seems unfair. I’ve been there. However that’s moving way offtopic, so getting back to the main point. Medications have their place for mental health, and in other cases they should not be used immediately.

I’ll quote myself metallic. Yeah, maybe the "pain meds" are OK while you’re having your "leg" fixed, but to me, the drugs in question for the OP are being used as a "magic pill" not something to help while he goes to therapy or counseling.
He hasn’t explained any other treatment he’s been on, so I haven’t assumed.

i agree with this, but i think there are some rare cases where its needed, but doctors just give this stuff out like its candy.
I’m not in any way qualified to speak intelligently on the matter, but in my experience I’ve found that it’s not always the best way to go. I live with someone that takes a big drug cocktail for this sort of thing daily and from what I can see it does him no good. I’ve known him for a good 8 years now too so I know what he was like before. He sleeps until its dark out every day and when he actually is awake he just sits in front of his computer until he goes back to sleep.

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Who are you, who do you think you should be, and where are the differences?

What do you mean?

why do they get awkward around you? Do you have any specific instances?

what kinds of things do you have in common with those people?

what used to be so much easier?
What have you become?
Why do you hate yourself?

What do you want to change to? Why?

quiet. even around good friends i find it hard to find interesting topics to talk about or things to do. I feel like a douchebag a lot because I act like one.

Confident and outgoing. I am confident. I really feel like I have the abilities and the know-how to carry on conversations and grow relationships. I used to do it all no problem, but now theres something in the way.

the way i present myself and the way people judge me based on that presentation is miles away from who i feel like in my head. When I listen to other people’s conversations, i am right there with them…but then when I try to talk it usually comes out wrong or I stutter or something and nobody can ever see through that.

I hate myself because I’ve become a douchebag. I wouldn’t want to hang out with me if I was someone else. My friends hang out with me because they know who I really am, but I just keep slipping away from that and even my best friendships are becoming hollow.
start being who you really want to be or just die. you can believe in reincarnation or afterlife all you want. but the fact remains, you cannot prove that either of those exist or not. so think of this life as your only chance, and just become what you want to be.

I feel the same way sometimes. There are a number of people who I think would really enjoy my company if only I could force myself to be the person that I know I am inside. There are a few people who I have really been able to open up to and let them get to know the real me but I have run most of them off too.
I just have felt stuck in this rut all my life and don’t know how to get out.

thats my whole fucking problem mod edit: show some love , i CANT.

To really learn some confidence you need to see a therapist. Get it free through the county or on a sliding scale without insurance based on your income. Just be honest with them. OT is not your only chance of coming out of this funk. Start running/walking in very public areas, it helped me. Some day you might just meet someone.
i dont like the idea of a therapist, but i appreciate your suggestion

The new you will thank the old you. Its better than religion and completely non-religious.

You seem to be only pushing away all the advice that everyone has put up here. You need to try SOMETHING. Just start doing something. Feel like you need to get in better shape? Well, go ahead and hit the gym everyday. Feel like meeting some more people? Join a club for something you enjoy doing already or hell, join a club that does something you’ve never done before. The big thing is to keep active and constantly move forward, don’t just wallow in your depressed state. I know it might seem like none of this will help you out, but trust me, it WILL help. You just need to start living life again instead of sitting around and thinking about how horrible your life is. Get a positive attitude going and just start attacking things. Don’t think about how horrible you are or whatever, go forward and live. Each time one of those old thoughts enters your head, just start doing something else. Stop pushing people away and learn to lighten up a bit instead of being really serious all the time.

Now I can say all of this to you, but YOU are the only one who can actually take my or anyone else’s advice. You don’t really have anything to lose, so why not just try SOMETHING?

Of course, you might also have deeper mental issues that the Asylum can’t fully deal with. You might need medication, but we can’t tell you if you do or do not. If our advice doesn’t help you, I beg you, seek out professional help.
Its not just up to you to carry a conversation. Comfortable conversation among people is facilitated by proper body language from all sides. I can be the life of the party if I feel good body language coming from others. I need to feel that they like me and are interested in what I have to say. The next day I can be in a group that doesn’t like me quite as much, and I might have a hard time getting a word in edgewise. I could probably find ways to myself more likeable to more people, because I am distrusting of people I don’t know and usually come off as an asshole. But quite simply, some people just won’t like you no matter what you do.

Go to a therapist. He will help you realize what is going on beneath the surface and why you are feeling like this, and what you need to do to correct it. And learn about body language and power. I’m willing to bet you’re pretty low on the totem pole as far as social power in those groups. This is why you are being ignored and people don’t respect you enough to give you the right body language. Subconsiouly you feel it, and you feel like its all your fault (it partially is, but you can correct your end with therapy and learning). Learn about what you communicate to other people by the way you behave and how it influences how they behave towards you.

A lot of the negative body language that you are reacting to might also be entirely in your head, based on bad experiences as a childhood or being a bit too self centered. A therapist can seperate fact from fiction and help you realize what is really going on around you and react to it appropriately in a way that will make people respect you. As long as you are unsure of your reality, people simply cannot respect or trust you because you can’t even trust your own perception.
Do you do any sports or any hobbies which are worthwhile?

I find sports take my mind off things brilliantly and come with goals and if your passionate enough its something to talk about.

There really is no such things as "should" be, but rather who do you choose to be in this moment of now, and the next moment which follows? Who do you look up to that has overcome adversity or accomplished character qualities you’d like to acquire?

When you stay stumbling are you saying that you attempt to behave in a certain manner and you find yourself falling short of your expectation of what you should have done? Again, "should" is not an appropriate word. We can’t become anything unless we accept where we currently are. If you pull out a map and try to get somewhere, you can’t go anywhere in particular unless you first find when you are first.

Don’t be so arrogant as to assume responsibility for 100% of the relationship. There are two people, you and the other person. You’re only responsible for 50%, let the other person be responsible for their share. So this in-fact means you aren’t "at fault." Again, you used the word "should" — this word is not good, it’s right up there with "can’t, have to, I want." You need to understand that you aren’t obligated by anything but your own expectations and that’s not being fair to yourself. Having things in common with people doesn’t mean you’re ready to interact with them. You have to first take care of yourself and get my mental frame-work in place so you know who you are, what you believe in and stand for, and that you have a strong internal frame of reference aka Character. Are you honest? Compassionate? Loyal? Loving? Kind? Giving? — figure out which qualities you have and or want, and act in ways that are conducive to fulfilling these. This will help you become the you that you will choose.

Yesterday is dead and over, and the past is gone but something might be found to take it’s place, if you’re willing to listen to the advice I’m giving you. I’ve done some pretty awful things in my life that I’m ashamed of, things that are cruel, evil, violent, disgusting — but I don’t hate myself, I’ve forgiven myself. I forgave myself because I didn’t know, I was ignorant and couldn’t comprehend what was going on. I took responsibility though, and I paid the prices — but now I look at myself, and I’m a certain asset to the human race.

Tell me why you really hate yourself.

I’m going to recommend a book to you. You can ignore it, or give it a chance. If I was you, I’d take the latter. Conversations With God, Book 1 by Walsch. See, you keep trying to do something that you shouldn’t be doing. Don’t "try" to change. Change is inevitable, it happens without conscious intent, it’s apart of the process of life. Trying to do something is a waste of your time, but rather instead of "trying" start "choosing" — this means actually acting in ways that are going to get you from where you are (point A) to where you would like to go (point B). Change occurs as a result of living now, being present, accepting it — even when it’s really painful or tragic. I’ve seen so much pain and suffering in my life, and I can tell you, no one else is going to drop a better revelation.

If you find that you can’t do these things, or that you’re not ready to do them, they don’t "try" — simply do when you are compelled from within, not out of obligation because you "have to, or should" — let your heart (for lack of a better word) inform you of when it’s time to advance.

Also, if you need further help beyond this, if you feel you’re suffering is too advanced, don’t be afraid to see your doctor, and to consider a counselor. You may need some assistance if it’s extreme, or if you have any other health problem.

I hope you feel better man, and come here anytime, we’re here to help.

Do you behave that way because you want attention, to feel included? Do you find yourself acting that way because you’re fearful that if you’re more subdued, quiet and reserved, that people won’t like, respect or want to be around you?

The reality is, it’s perfectly ok to be quiet, and to be yourself, even if who you currently are isn’t all that interesting or likeable. You must begin somewhere, and everything grows and develops in this world. Nothing begins with mastery. Why expect yourself to run, when you haven’t yet learned how to walk? I use this analogy to express your primitive understanding of yourself and your character. This isn’t a bad thing, it’s not bad to be young, naive, inexperienced, and growing. It’s only damaging when you try to bypasse it, or try to label it as wrong instead of letting yourself grow and evolve. This includes socially too, and internally.

Yes, you’re in the way. You’re not present, you’re not being what you simply are. You’re "trying" to fit a sqaure peg in a round hole. You may wish to act confident and outgoing, but that isn’t who you are right now.

Welcome to the planet, welcome to being human. It’s true, who we are inside is often not the message we convey to others, and that’s ok, because who people perceive us to be is based off their own notions, expectations and feelings about who they think we are or should be.

You are what you are. A stone is a stone, a tree a tree, and you, are simply you for now. Be glad you even have the opportunity to grow and to change, else you couldn’t experience anything at all without that relative context.

You’re terrified of what they might say, or what they might think — probably more so the first, because then you’re left to your own devices to run over and over it in your head. "Did she think I was stupid? Did I say something wrong? Maybe I was babbling or talking too much, was my topic of conversation lame?" You’re so wrapped up in what others think, that you literally become paralyzed and no longer think about what "you" think. What you think is truth, it is where you are at this time — don’t be afraid to be that. You have to have a conviction and to stand behind something, and what better than who you are as you are?

I get the impression you’re also suffering from depression. I’ve already covered most of this, but I think the more you call yourself a douche bag the more you’ll act like one. It’s time to change your choice of words if what you would like to accomplish is growing. Don’t try, just choose it if that is who you are. The words we use inside our minds and how we present ourselves to others plays a massive role in how we really act and what we think and feel. Start showing yourself respect. You deserve to be here as much as the rest of us, otherwise you wouldn’t have been here at all.

No one does, but let me give you some good information incase you do choose at some time to go to one. First, therapists are trained in different ways, but the general outcome is they have extensive knowledge on theory of human behavior, understanding the basic dysfunctions and complexities of conscious human thought. These people have studied, and then treated countless patients, sometimes thousands. In those experiences of treating patients, it becomes very clear what the vast majority of human beings need, want, and how they become ill in various psychiatric or psychological ways.

A therapist can’t "fix" you, rather than play a role as being objective, seeing your world from the outside looking in, and when you reflect your world out by talking to them, they are able to see hang-ups, irrational beliefs, as well as areas in which the unconscious mind is "protecting" the individual from rapidly integrating too much information too quick. When people try to change fast — they fail. Changing requires a "choice" to do it, not try it, and when you choose, you gradually begin to learn about who you are from someone outside you who has not conflict of interest in regards to your life. They have nothing to gain by telling you the truth about what they see. A lot of people deny the truth that therapists share, only to later realize it was true.

You must also realize therapists don’t go into that profession to make money, as most make very little even though they seem to charge a lot. Most therapists accept medical insurance, and that insurance only pays a portion, sometimes as little as 20 dollars or 40 dollars for your session. Then there is the fact that most therapists use sliding scales, often working practically for free, because they don’t like the thought of turning a way a patient in need who isn’t financial capable.

Then you get the fat cats, those who "can" afford the session at full cost, who then bitch and complain about a 90 dollar fee. Don’t they realize they’re paying for extensive knowledge and experience learned from both a long term educational institution, as well as ongoing study — and on top of all that, the experience the counselor has from having worked with many other cases? These people have to make a living, they’re not trying to just rip people off. They have to make up for free cases and lost funds from insurance companies! That’s why their regular fees are so high in general. With insurance though, you shouldn’t pay much if anything.

Therapists make mistakes, they evolve and grow from there very first session. The lessons learned and mistakes made gradually end up turning them into very efficient and effective people, who not only care about their patients, but sincerely want to tell you the truth.

So do you still not like the idea of having someone objective with all this skill and who has worked with people just like you and been able to help them?

This is the "general" therapist we’re talking about. You’ll run into some bad ones if not careful, and so I’ve laid out a ground work for patients who want to find a good one. I’ll liste it below:

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I’ve talked to him and tried to help him as much as I possibly could, but his needs and such have gotten to the point where I feel helpless trying to help him out.

I discussed this with him completely honestly and directly, and talked him into seeking professional help. But he started to balk at how to actually go about finding someone to help him out…

So, here I am. Anyone know of any resources I could use to find him someone, or give him more options on how to find someone?

He’s in Salem, NJ, if that matters….

Thanks in advance…
First, find out if he has insurance. If he does find out which therapists he can see under his insurance plan.

Once you figure that out you just have to pick. Most people (myself included) will tell you you have to try and least more than one therapist before you find one you like.
ok, cool. i didn’t even think of the insurance thing… That is a good place to start.

thanks.
But seriously, tell him not to be discouraged if it takes a while to find one he likes. When I was in therapy I shopped around and saw around 6 therapists before I settled on one I could trust.
There’s a million therapists out there, and I do believe there is only a handful that will truly fit what you’re looking for.

Go shopping as if you were looking at a new car. Find which ones are affordable through insurance, and then it’s time to test drive. Ask them their credentials, ask them if they have any personal experience in what it is they are a therapist for, and anything else you may want to know. If they are hesitant on talking about themselves, keep on test driving and looking for new ones. You want to be able to confide in these people, so they should have no problem with sharing their personal battles, if any.

Good luck, hopefully he doesn’t get discouraged if he has one bad experience from a therapist and blanket labels all of them as bad, which sadly alot of people do.
My experience is that a good therapist is one who can identify your issues and challenge you to deal with them — or at least admit to having them — without making it obvious which direction he’s going in. A good therapist will help you realize what your issues are and put you in situations where you have to deal with them, instead of just telling you what they are — because if he tells you what they are, then you can just blame your problems on them and continue to be dysfunctional.
yeah, thats kind of what i’m worried about…

He is one of those people who has pegged therapy as something for mentally ill people. and of course, doesn’t consider himself to be in that boat…

He also was in the Army for a good number of years, and for whatever reason, he was STRONGLY discouraged from seeking help outside of the army’s facilities…

So i’m sort of hoping to get a good one for him right off the bat so he gives it a fair chance…

Nothing could be further from the truth and this is just an excuse on his part. Welcome to the wonderful world of trying to help people.

Most people would rather bitch than make real changes in their life.

So get him to go to the Army doctors/psys. I mean if the Army will pay for it, why not?

Give this idea up. You can’t save him….you aren’t the hero going to ride into town on the white horse and solve all his problems.

You can be supportive and help him on his journey but finding the right therapist for him is something he’ll have to commit to doing on his own. He may have to leave one or more of them behind while he looks for one he can get real with. It can be really difficult to find this therapist but you can help encourage him and support his efforts but you can’t do it for him….no matter how much you want to….it’s simply something that we must do alone.

Most people that I’ve met, that give up on therapy, give up because either it’s too difficult for them to change, they would rather stay with a mediocre therapist than looking for one that will really challenge them or they’d rather bitch than change.

The Army has crap for mental health services, btw.

Insurance companies’ websites will have something like a Doc Find where you can search by location, specialties, gender, language spoken, age, where they graduated, etc. [I'm an insurance agent, so I had to run these searches for people day in and day out].

Someone with prior military service or with experience specific to people who are/were in the military and specializing in depression/anxiety/etc in his age group would be a good place to start. He’s going to need to try out different ones to find the best match.
8 different theories that psychologists can specialize in:

Behaviorism
Cognitive psychology
Developmental psychology
Functionalism
Gestalt psychology
Humanistic psychology
Psychoanalytical psychology
Structuralism

I suggest researching the different types and finding the one(s) that seem to fit your friend’s personality the best. If he’s the kind of person who likes to talk out his feelings and feels that his past experiences have greatly influenced who he is and wants to work through that- then a Behaviorist approach would do him no good and he’d swear off therapy forever. If he had this type of personality, a Humanistic or Gestalt therapy would be his best bet. The majority of people who swear that therapy is a bunch of bullshit and it doesn’t do any good are the people who are in the wrong type of therapy.

Have him do his research and see who is accepted by his insurance.

If you go to a PhD or a PsyD, they will most likely have a degree in clinical psychology with extra training (and a certificate) to prove what field they are specialized in. Make sure your friend interviews the Dr. before they decide to work with them or not. You should always interview your docs.

3 months without marked improvement is a good sign that the approach isn’t working and it’s time to try something else.

Good luck to your friend!!

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Why is it a competition? Something that’s important to you is probably fucked up. This is really important to me because its been a problem for my all my life, and its only getting worse. Sure its just women, but the sole reason I’m here is because some guy was good enough to bang some chick and forgot to pull out and bam, black jesus was born. I won’t ever have the chance to experience love or whatever again, I think that’s fairly important. Think about being socially mute, its like everything around me is a prop, not real, a game, and for some reason I can’t manipulate them the way I’m supposed to.

I did not mean to make it a competition and yes its important to me because I have also been having trouble with this all my life.

This is not true, find a therapist. If you cant afford one go through the county health services. You wont regret it.

I’ve been through this. I make too much money for the sliding scale. I make decent money, but they don’t have a mechanism that compensates for my $861 student loan payment that royally fucks my life.
I’d say it has less to do with maturity and emotional development, and much more to do with self-esteem issues.

I’d be excited to hear about your successful/failed social interactions you have. What I mean is you could keep a log of every social interaction that you care about, and afterwards, write down how you think it went.

I did this while I was in therapy, and although I spent hours telling my therapist how confident I was, she could easily point out a ton of sentences I would write down that actually showed a deep insecurity that even I didn’t realize I had.

This way, we could hear your thoughts at the time and help you realize your self-defeating thoughts. Every time you make a thread, it’s probably just a summary of a million thoughts you’ve had recently. These types of problems are better cured from the root.

It’s just a suggestion. Perhaps you could start up a thread and just post it in whenever you want.

As I’ve said before, I just really don’t want to see you fall into the trap of taking advice and forgetting it once you’re out in social interactions.

excuses = rationalization

you work hard enough and you can find one

everyone here is pretty much tired of hearing about whatever my problems are.

I might start writing all that shit down…but at this point I’ve pretty much cut off interacting with people all together. I’ve effectively given up, again. I guess I’ll wait another 8-years and maybe the pattern will continue.

well, you can also look at motherfucking reality. I don’t understand what the fuck why everyone thinks this is so simple. My options are to either not pay rent or not pay my student loan. $436 per month is a large chunk of money for me. I don’t see what’s so difficult about I DON’T MAKE THAT MUCH MONEY PER MONTH!!!!!oneoneone

64,997 posts I think your interacting enough.

Have you thought of calling the loans office to see if they can provide you with a "grace" period?

nothing about reality is simple, Good luck.

forums are my only real communication with people, aside from that I just sit around my apartment or go out alone and make an ass of myself.

The grace period is not an option. I could go back on deferment but all that interest compounds monthly and my payments keep going up and up. The way it sits now, after all my bills (I’m not talking about cable TV or shit like that) I have $288 to buy gasoline and food with.

This post alone is a perfect example of why a journal would help you.

You have no idea if people are tired of hearing what your problems are. You can’t assume to know what people think. When observing another person’s words or actions, people with depression/anxiety assume to know much more than they actually do know.

Your self-defeating thought here on this board tell me that you probably constantly have the same self-defeating thoughts in social situations too. "She probably has a boyfriend," or "She probably wouldn’t like me," or "That date went terrible! She won’t want to see me again."

You would be completely surprised if you knew what people actually thought. Most people have the same insecurities as you, just on a larger or smaller scale.

You could say "I have a feeling that people on this message board are getting tired of hearing my problems." That would be an opinion, and you would subconsciously accept it. However, when you state it as a fact, as you did, you subconsciously accept it as a fact. If you were talking to a girl and said to yourself "She isn’t interested in me," then the battle is over. You have already lost. A fact is a fact.

The world isn’t always as you think it is. I freaking love Star Wars, so I’ll quote Qui-Gon Jinn and say "Your focus determines your reality." Stop focusing on the "facts."

I disagree. I know I’m not exactly intelligent, far from it. I sure as hell wouldn’t assume my muddied opinions of my experiences were more accurate than an opinion of someone who is capable of maintaining relationships and has a successful social life.

I’m not exactly the most intelligent person, if I were I’d probably be making more money, have more friends, and not be in this thread right now. I respect everyone’s advice here.

I’m so worried every time I speak to anyone, but especially with women who are high in demand and where I have tons and tons of competition from people who look better, are taller, more "pumped", better cloths, better hair, more intelligent, more conversational. I don’t want to annoy people. I don’t want to be the weird guy who won’t go away. Until I spend some more time in the gym, get better cars, buy a house, and do a bunch of other shit, I’m not going to do well with women.

You’re approaching it like they have to approve of you. Something to keep in mind:

They already know the kind of man they like, and you’re already the kind of man you are, so they already know whether they like you or not, they just never had to think about it before. All you’re doing is finding it out; all the prep work happened over the course of the past 27 years, there’s nothing you can do now, so just let the chips fall where they may.

I typically approach it thinking, "I hope I know what to do so the don’t figure out that I’m a miserable fuck."

I know its futile and I have to "let the chips fall," but I really am tired of spending all my time alone. It gets so old. I’m so fucking lonely.

Social interaction is just like anything else: it can be improved with practice.

He can develop more confidence and self-esteem and absolutely be the type of man most girls want. He isn’t "stuck" with what he has.

100% of his failures are in is head, caused by catastrophic and self-defeating thoughts. Some people do get better, and he is obviously intelligent enough to be one of those who overcome the problems, whether or not he will admit it.

There is something he can do about it, and he can start right now.
That’s the wrong approach, Socrates. I agree that superficial stuff can be improved, but on the whole, it’s safe to assume he’s the person he wants to be because he likes being that person, so he will always default back to who he "really is" when it comes to important issues. So it’s better not to present a facade that makes him look like someone he isn’t, only to get into one potentially-successful relationship after another that fails because he was lying about who he is.

Seriously, if he just accepts that he is who he is and she likes who she likes and there’s no changing either one, it becomes a hell of a lot easier to get rejected, because you didn’t do anything wrong, you just didn’t match up at all and so it wouldn’t have been worth the effort to try anyway.

I prefer to apologize (humorously!) for having no game whatsoever. Surprisingly, they usually relax a lot when I say that, because it means they don’t have to try to read between my lines to decipher meanings that aren’t really there.

One thing women will never forgive is a guy who thinks he’s a miserable fuck. You’re not a miserable fuck, you’re just weird. Of course, if you’ve based your entire life on the notion that you should be like other people, then yes, I suppose you are a miserable fuck — but those people whom you have let dictate the standards of your life are going to die too, no matter how fantastic they are at being cool, so their opinions really aren’t worth more than your own.

Unless you’re drunk, stoned, half-naked, and living in a cardboard box in an alley, your approach on life has clearly met with some success. So you don’t need to continue wondering whether you’re "doing it right". The only right way is the way that works, and there are lots of ways that work. Yours is, presumably, one of them.

If you enter into an interaction with a woman confident in the fact that your personal history proves you’re not a complete failure, and that you and she are both the way you are because you like being that way, then it becomes a lot easier to get rejected over and over until you find someone who likes your worldview, because, as I said, you didn’t do anything wrong in the first place.

I’ve been reading some self-help on becoming alpha, and taking control of my life…but I keep fucking failing every god damn time.

It really hit hard to when I was going to a club, which I really didn’t want to go to, with some friends on saturday. There were 5 chicks my 4 friends picked up at another bar, so when we went to another bar that doesn’t let single guys in unless they drive maseratis. My buddies couldn’t even convince this girl to tell the bouncer that she was with me so I could get in the club. She couldn’t fucking bring herself to slum it and just for an instant tell a random person that she was associated with me.

This is what I don’t get. I don’t understand what’s wrong with me. My old roommate and her husband agree that they’re perplexed and don’t know what my fucking problem is. At this point I’ve pretty much made up my mind that I’m done trying socially. I have to accept that whatever the ailment is, I won’t understand it or be able to do anything about it. I will be alone for the rest of my life. There is no getting out of this, its the way it works.

I’m like one of those guys who weighs 140lb, and has to go to an adult arcade to experience women. I’m the guy who doesn’t know his neighbors because he never goes in or out of the house to meet them, and its a good thing he doesn’t because then they’d be creeped out and move. How the fuck did I become the scary rapist guy who sweats and has bad hygine? I’m like Kip from Napoleon Dynamite. Its kinda sad. I’ve been driving the track car because my daily driver is broken. I only have the driver’s seat in, and for the last 2 weeks, this hasn’t been a problem…lol.

He can’t accept who he is, because that is the whole problem from the beginning. The underlying source or problems with people of low self-esteem is because they don’t have the "I’m okay with being me," mindset. Instead, they think "I should be this type of guy so others will accept me." If Black Jesus could simply say "I’m all right with who I am!", then he wouldn’t have any of these problems. He wouldn’t feel he has to have nice things in order for women to like him.

When you say "it’s safe to assume he’s the person he wants to be because he likes being that person," I see a very different picture. Does Black Jesus seem like he likes himself? Do depressed people ever really like themselves?

I’m not saying he should try to change his personality, his beliefs, or any of the things he likes. I don’t mean to make it sound like I want him to create a facade of who he is. I’m not talking about Pick-Up Artist stuff and lying about who you are or any lying whatsoever. I’m simply saying he should try to recognize these self-defeating thoughts and beliefs, and change them. Those are very possible to change.

I agree. I’m not alright with who I am, I do not want to be me. Me sucks. No one wants to be around me, especially women. Women have always fucked with "me."

I realize that I’m incredibly negative. We had a new employee in the office that told me last week, "what happened man? I’ve been here like 4 months and I’ve never met anyone so consistently negative all the time. At first I thought it was funny, then I thought you were looking for attention, but now I wonder if someone in your family died."

I had a really good week when I went on a vacation with a random girl back in January. It was awesome. I’ve been motivated to speak to women since then because I want to feel like that again. I couldn’t remember what it was like because I haven’t had a date January, 2000. Now I feel like a Heroine addiction every time I talk to a girl and she instantaneously shits on me.

Yes, that was a bitch move on her part. However, that was just her, and plenty of other cute girls would have helped you out.

However, it sounds like you didn’t know this girl. It’s not like she was a really good friend and did this to you. How can you take it so personal when she doesn’t know anything about you?

The only thing that really means is two things: 1) She is a bitch, and 2) You aren’t good looking enough to get beautiful girls interested in you by looks alone. Fortunately, 99% of men out there aren’t good looking enough to get women interested in them based on looks alone. As you already said you are doing, keep going to the gym and improve yourself as much as possible.

There isn’t really anything I can say to give you the courage keep going back out there and trying again. If Abraham Lincoln gave up as easily as you, I’d probably have someone here to make my lunch for me right now.
That just makes it sound even more like you need approval from everyone.

I already told you, if you’re making money and you’re not getting thrown in jail every weekend and you’re not strung-out all the time, then your take on life is valid. So stop feeling like it isn’t.

- – -

You know what I did to break free from needing validation? I lived all by myself for months, didn’t see anyone, rarely called anyone on the phone, and wrestled with why nobody ever wanted to pro-actively show an interest in me. Eventually I just concluded that it’s because I wasn’t giving them any reason to notice me. I don’t deserve attention, there’s six billion people out there for other people to look at. You gotta do your own thing, preferably in public, and try to attract attention that way. Nobody’s going to pro-actively want to notice you and think you’re cool and go out with you. You have to show that you’re worth paying attention to, by doing something that catches their eye. And if nothing you do is that sort of thing, then at least enjoy doing it by yourself.

To tell you the truth, socialites are all alone too, because they’re all only pretending to pay attention to each other so others will pay attention to them. It’s all a game.

hahahahaha, that’s fucking great. I’m going to use that.

After my ex and I split up in January, I spent the next couple of months sitting at home wondering why my social life sucked. Sometimes I thought "I must not be the exciting guy I once was, or once thought I was."

However, I started calling friends more and more and getting invited to parties. Most the times, the people at these parties would love me and want to hang out again.

Had I not made the phone calls to hang out, I wouldn’t have realized that I was an amiable guy and people really enjoyed hanging out with me.

I agree with you, but if there’s 6B people out there, and 1/100 have the qualities desire by other people, then shouldn’t I adjust my desired goals to something realistic like solitude.

I guess if anything I can discuss this here, and not really worry about people flipping out. I’ve been thinking about suicide again, but not like everyone else does. I don’t want to kill myself, its kinda like I should. Does this make sense. I want to succeed at this and have friends but more importantly, I want a woman in my life. I’m not talking about a wife or GF for me to drive crazy with neediness, I want to be able to go out with a girl, or have a girl come over once a month or so. That’s not an option though, and I’m tired of living like this where I constantly feel like I’m fucked up. Its not normal to be totally unable to attract women. I don’t want to give up, I want to have a desire to win at this. But logic is telling me to stop attempting because my success record is so poor. Its like death is the most intelligent option for me, it will stop all the shit-emotions I’m tired of, but I don’t want to quit, I want to feel something again. Is that totally absurd? I should kill myself, but I don’t want to. You’ll probably never hear that again.

My buddies are going on another trip to the wine country at the end of this year, and I want to go, but I’m not going alone. That’s 6-months away, basically I have 5 months to find a girl that I want to take with me. I want to be happy like I was on that trip to the Wine Country. I forgot what it was like to feel like that. I really did. Now it haunts me.
You know, I think you’re a pretty cool dude.. But damn bro, it’s like you solve your issues then resort right back to the same ones.

Practice what you do when you’re happy / fulfilled more often, the outcome won’t always be so negative.

I’m not trolling but I seriously LOL’d when I read this… just the way you wrote it made it funny.

But, that is the only reason why any of us are here. Being a planned baby or unplanned doesn’t define who you are… you define who you are.

I can relate to you more than you know… I am 27 and have only had 1 girlfriend in my life which was back in high school in 1999. I have been working on changing my life though.

First you need to change your way of thinking. You sound like a negative nancy, and no one likes to hang out with negative nancy’s. Becoming more positive about things will help change your mentality.

Secondly stop putting the pussy on a pedestal. If you go into interactions with women thinking you’re inferior to them they will sense this and you will have no chance to spark attraction. Alpha males never see themselves as inferior and all the alpha males I know have stuck their dicks into a lot of pussy.

What hobbies do you have? Do you workout at the gym? Lift weights and cardio training? Can you play the guitar? Have you thought about learning martial arts? I have been going to martial arts class for a few years now and it has boosted my confidence in all social situations. I even go to the gym and lift weights and jog/bike. Working out releases endorphins that give you a natural high. When I was a kid I was the happiest I have ever been and realized it was because I ran or rode my bike everywhere. Kids nowadays sit inside playing video games and don’t get much exercise and they are all emo and depressed.

If you like music, you should learn to play the guitar. Take leasons, it will give you something to do on a week night or weekend. I had a chubby friend that loves playing music and was in band in school and played other instruments but started learning to play the guitar teaching himself. It was amazing when he would bust out the guitar at parties and start playing and the girls at the party would flock around him with thier pussys swooning. You could see the wet spot thru their pants He could have had sex with a lot of those girls but he was the ‘nice guy’ type so he would never hook up with them.

Start living your life doing things you want to do. You will become a happier person and a more interesting person. Also look into some books and publications on improving your social skills. There are many out there. Also keep in mind that some pickup artists teach some things that can also improve your social skills. Sometimes when trying to meet women you may have to open a group of girls or a group with girls and guys mixed. Knowing how to open a set can help improve your confidence.

my conception comment was not about planner pregnancy, it was about having the ability to make that happen, women choosing men to sleep with.

I don’t just put women on a pedestal, I consider myself substandard. I’m the worst at everything I do. I may be 5′11" 194lb at 12%, but I still feel like Urkel. I have the worst physical aspect in every category, worst car, worst apartment, worst furniture, worst opinions, and everything else. Its like limited # of friends to me a favor by hanging out with the retarded kid who nobody likes.

There have been 2 nights in particular where I could really hook with women. I can open just fine, I just can’t get over the logic that I’m totally random, they know what I’m doing, and why would they want to talk to me when I have the least to offer of any guy in that room? I don’t see why any of these women want me to interrupt them and speak.

It’s most likely a lack of development.

My problem stemmed from my childhood. 2 things were wrong when I was a kid. First I was cute as hell when I was a kid. I got compliments from everyone, and I had girls chasing me around all the time. I never had to work for attention from girls it just always came to me. Then when I hit puberty, I got hit with the ‘fuck your good looks up stick’. I wasn’t the cutest kid anymore and when you get into middle school and high school, everyone’s social skills start to develop and you can’t get by on good looks anymore unless you are a hot girl with big tits and a nice ass.

Then when I was in middle school and high school, my parents were extremely religious, and they were scared that any interaction I had with a girl would lead to me getting some girl pregnant. So they suffocated me and never allowed me to go to parties, dances, or other places where you develop social skills at a young age. I couldn’t even have a girlfriend and when I got my first girlfriend in my senior year of high school all hell broke loose and my parents hated it.

So I was never able to develop the correct social skills to interact with women. I can hang out with guy friends and socialize just fine, but when a woman is near by my mind goes blank and I don’t know what to talk about. Maybe your situation is the same.

We can only work on improving our social prowess, and keep our heads up that we still have our 30’s ahead of us. Just remember women love older guys for various reasons. You probably have seen many guys in there 30’s dating young hot big breasted women in their early to mid 20’s. I know I have seen my share. So at least I have something to try and achieve when I hit my 30’s.

You gotta try to adopt the winners mentality. When you see sports reporters interviewing athletes before a big game and they ask the athlete who is going to win they always say they or their team will win. If they said that they are probably going to lose, they will never win.

You do have the ability to make anything happen. You do have many things you can offer women. Women do want to talk with you.

Think like a loser and you’ll be a loser.
Think like a winner and you’ll be a winner.

why? I don’t see why any woman would want me, some random loser, talking to them. Even if I weren’t a random loser and were just "average", they still wouldn’t want me speaking to them. I don’t know what any woman would want from me that I could give her.

I’m never tired of your posts because you write them very, very well.

It was uplifting when you were happy because you’re usually so unhappy, but to be honest, I like the posts when you’re up as well as when you’re down… it’s always good stuff.

I think the main thing is that your thoughts always make a lot of sense to me. There is something about the way you describe the things in your life – be they happy or sad – that hits home.

Your humor, insights, ideas, advice, compliments, reality-checks, listening skills, etc etc etc.

You’re an intelligent human being with ideas and views that perhaps could intrigue many women. If you can make a girl laugh and feel good, you need not much else to offer.

every guy has that shit though. I know I’m whining like a faggot at this point, but there is no reason any woman is going to want standard options which you listed for me, when she could have some guy who is ultimately superior. There is no point in even trying to start this game if I’m not the best available.

I know that’s probably going to piss a lot of people off, but why should I even talk to these women if ultimately they are just going to use me as a placeholder until some guy with bigger arms, better hair, a better car, more entertaining perspective, or whatever comes by? It might happen in the first 5 minutes I’m talking to them, or it will happen after we’ve been married 5-years. Either way they’re not going to be happy with what they have even if they are so inclined to use me to entertain them for the meantime.

Just like the last girl. We were together like a month, I thought I played all my cards right…then, before I had a chance to fuck it up, she upgraded and I never heard from her again. Not a single fucking word. I don’t want to fucking deal with that again. It happens like that all the time. Its no that I did poorly, fucked up, was mean, or lacked entertaining qualities, I just wasn’t good enough and never had the type of relationship which warranted a response. I don’t even have enough worth as a human being to get a fucking phone call letting me know its over, "no date tonight or ever, I found something better, and it wasn’t difficult because you’re slightly below average and pretty much any guy who shows up will do better than you."

This is called "projecting thoughts on to others" and if you continue to do this you will never change. Everyone is is a loser and average, its just how you display yourself. Believe it or not there are other people out there like you including a SO or two if you look hard enough.

that was the craziest for me. I haven’t been happy like that in at least 8-years, if ever. Its like for a moment, life wasn’t in a dungeon. I enjoyed some things. Its like a got a glimpse of something I wasn’t supposed to see, because now its something I want to replicate but I’m incapable, so it makes me miserable.

you’re right, but you could still get a 10.

a girl’s interest in you has nothing to do with "qualities". it’s like playing basketball or riding a back or, most accurately, like learning a video game. when you miss the hoop it has nothing to do with who you are as a human being. it has to do with how you handled the ball! you don’t quit a video game when you lose. you lose 10 times until you get the general movement down.

since your inner game is so incredibly, horribly fucked, why don’t you just focus on outer game? it’s a skill set, you can learn it. yeah, you’re a miserable wretch and you suck in every way and so on, or whatever else fucked up shit your mind is making you believe right now. but fortunately, attracting women is something you DO, after practicing; not something you are.

POSITIVE outer game only. there’s a website for that, which I can link you to, not the one I PM’ed you, but a different one.

This is false, get it out of your head and the first step is over.

the pattern over the past 8 years is irrefutable.

You have to allow yourself to change or you will keep going in circles.

but how do I change the most basic part of my life? Everything I do, every day, is based upon the reality that everything comes to an end, and everything I enjoy will soon go away and I’ll be left with nothing. How do I change that learned behavior with the contrary, and somehow create an ideological shift that will actually take?

Therapy.

Contrary to what’s been said, I think you’re setting yourself up for failure by completely ignoring your "inner game" and only focusing on "outer game."

Yes, if you went out and just started approaching a crap ton of women a day, or better yet, took the "stylelife" challenge and did Style’s "Get a Date in 30 Days" thing, your confidence absolutely would go up. It is very possible that after many attempts, you would have some success and your confidence would skyrocket. That is a solution.

However, because of your depressive tendencies, you seem to focus on the negative stuff and rarely on the positive. That means, you could go on 5 great dates, then have 1 bad date, and you would be tore up over that bad date wondering "why the fuck didn’t she like me?" I’ve been through the whole "PUA" trip that most of vaginarium is still going through. I read "The Game" way before 99% of those guys. I used to talk to a ton of those guys through PM’s, and the reason you don’t see me post in there much more is because many of them are keyboard jockies who are deeply insecure. Once you become confident in who you are and your game, trading tips and ideas on how to pick up girls seems less appealing. I spend my free evenings out socializing, not reading about socializing. The reality is that not all dates are going to go awesome, and you’re going to get rejected a lot. Because of your focusing on the negative, only focusing on your "outer game" could be even more disastrous to your self-esteem. From what I know about you, that one rejection would fuck you up and you would have a huge set back.

I think it would be much more beneficial to you to find a way to get therapy, whether it be paying a therapist or even finding some free therapy group. A therapist can really help you realize how your mind is your worst enemy and stop you from thinking these negative thoughts. However, if you still want to read the PUA stuff, I don’t think that is a bad idea. It helped me out a lot and I did get 500% better with women because of it. However, therapy helped me out in ways that David DeAngelou couldn’t. All the openings in the world couldn’t fix the insecurities I developed because of my absent father and emotionally-wrecked mother. But, when it becomes something you’re talking more about and not doing, like much of the vaginarium it seems, it can be a problem.
I just went to the gym and totally flipped out. I couldn’t get find the playlist I wanted in the mp3 player, so I smashed that pos. Then I got even more pissed off because my shoulder hurts, so i just left. One of my cars is broken, the other has fucked up exhaust, its horribly uncomfortable, and I’m tired of all this shit and its making me fucking insane. Everything is compounding right now: girls, subaru, miata, student loans, travel for work, not wanting to work out but making myself, the insurance company not returning phone calls, women blowing me off, being fucking lonely, not having enough money…its all hitting me in the balls right now. I really don’t want to live like this anymore. I think I’m going to get drunk.

WTF do I do now? I have this fucking insane level of anger right now, almost safe to say that I’ve never been angry like this before. I really want to hit more stuff, burn the fucking place down, jump off a building, fucking something. I need to release all this anger and have no fucking clue how to do it.
Get hammered or something man! That’s always a good way to calm down after a bad day. That’s what I’ll be doing in about two hours at the bowling alley with some friends!

I feel like that every fucking moment of my life. It’s gotten to the point where i constantly ask people who I have somewhat of a connection with "in your honest opinion do you think I’m annoying" they usually tell me no but then I say something like "you can be completely honest with me, you won’t hurt my feelings" then they usually tell me that if i keep asking them that question then I’ll start to become annoying. I don’t know I don’t find it hard putting myself out there and making friend, but I do find it hard keeping friends because I feel like I’m bothering people when I try to reach out. I hate feeling like this but every time I try to make steps to change this I get the same shitty feeling that I’m bothering people and I tend to just lose touch.

It’s because he’s working it out logically, but not applying it to his real life.

Good. You’re finally getting to the point where you have the necessary drive to do something about it.

I got angry too. And I spent about a month drunk whenever I had free time. It’s all part of the grieving process.

Just roll with the punches man. We’ve all had shitty conversations/meet-ups with chicks and knew we blew it, no need to act like she would’ve been the one had we done it right.

Just be yourself because one day down the road you’re going to have to be, and better for it to never be than for her to realize she liked you for all the wrong reasons.

If you’re having issues with conversation, just talk to pretty much everyone you come into contact with, just a brief conversation and try to find things to ask other than "what’s up?" "how you been?" and "gee, would you look at that weather." Notice things about chicks, their shoes, hair style, whatever… mention something about it, or make a joke, ask a question.. just make conversation with as many different people as possible
I’m still wigged out angry. I’m going to take this week off from the gym…I went in there last night and I was just too insane to lift.

to cap things off, a dipshit in an a8 decided to cut me off bad, then brake check me, then swerve over into my lane almost running me off the road, then point and laugh at my car. I tried to get him to pull over so I could shoot him, but I had no luck.
I really, really, really have a powerful desire to scrounge up some money, pack all my shit up, and move after finding a job in northern California. I feel static and there are too many negative experiences here that I want to leave behind.

If that’s what you really want to do, go for it! Maybe new faces and new experiences would be good for you. But, you’ve got to get in a new mindframe to truly be at a better place. If you’re going to move, that’s awesome but you have to leave all the mental crap behind. If you don’t change your outlook on things it doesn’t matter how far you move, because it will be the same pattern.
Here’s something I’m translating only for you from a book on self-esteem in French :
People with a high self-esteem react emotionally in front of a failure but it doesn’t leave an emotional scar. They can face critics on sensitive issues or contradict them, they don’t really try to find out negative things about themselves (while those with low self-esteem or LSE do), they don’t feel that they have to justify themselves after a failure and think that many others would have failed too, they don’t feel rejected if criticized and have low evaluation anxiety. Success confirms their self-perception (instead of changing it like for LSE people) and they don’t think much about not being able to meet the standards or that success won’t last. They are excellent in certain specific domains and accept some weaknesses in exchange for this while LSE people prefer not to have any weakpoint and to be medium overall.

(Note that low self-esteem is the contrary on pretty much all points.)

Advantages = resilience and being able to face adversity (while low self-esteem can motivate to succeed and being able to listen to critics)
Disadvantages = can avoid listening to critics (while low self-esteem leads to suffering and anxiety).

Just some food for thought, gotta go study for now…

The difference between people who succeed with women and those who do not is not the rate of failure. It’s just that successful guys try and try again without making much of an issue of a rejection.

Failure can push some people to disengage from their goal (an extreme sensitivity of their behavioral inhibition system does this, it’s not ALL bad, it can be quite adaptative at times) while other will try harder (sensitivity of the behavioral approach system).
I really want to succeed, but everything I’ve experienced just in the past two weeks tells me to reevaluate my expectations. I want to shift my thoughts and be successful, I really do. However I can’t seem to make it stick.
God man you’re a fucking mess. I seen pictures of you before, you look great. You’re fairly tall, lean and muscular and you got HAIR, which I don’t.

Weren’t you living out of your car a few years ago? You had the drive to change you situation then. You have a lot going for you but you fail to see any of it.

yeah, I lived in the jetta for about 6 weeks, crashing at a few friend’s places, and showering at the university gym. I’m 5′11", 192lb, and about 13% after that bottle of wine last night. I can handle financial survival just fine…well, kinda, but I don’t know what to do about the intellectually growing and being sociable. I’m getting old, and I really want to get control of this so I can still enjoy my life.

lol that’s the truth. My old roommate does that… we all give him shit for it, especially when he flubs it up, but I know he’s the only one pulling a semi-regular stream of ass.

ok.

so you’re saying after you got successful with women, you finally patched up your inner game. because of therapy or whatever. but notice the order of events.

and socrates, i remember you going on ad nauseum about dating and i never thought your advice was particularly insightful. most of it was a play on the "hard-to-get" cliche. "show her your independence," and whatnot, which is rooted in insecurity, and fear, and an unhealthy obsession with the worst social aspects of human beings.

the advice you gave that was really disastrous was your application of game to questions of romance. ugh

the copious amount of ladiez advice you gave says more about how much you like to be an authority on the ladiez than anything else. and yeah, lots of guys talk the talk but don’t walk the walk, but i think you’re projecting that onto the vag… not everyone there is like that.

bj, I agree with socrates that you should see a therapist if you have the financial means. if you don’t have the financial means, then fuck inner game. think about it, attempting to fix your mental state yourself, that would be trying to fix your disfunctioning brain with that same disfunctioning brain, fixing an infected computer with an infected program. good luck

i think everyone is different, but from personal experience, drive can overcome inner game issues, and focusing on outer game forces the mind away from all the messed up thoughts that it feeds itself. why not learn that, in the meantime, seeing as your inner game is so royally fucked right now.
You just sit here and whine about that no woman would want to speak with you.

Why don’t you stop being such a baby and go transform yourself into someone they would want to talk to.
No one here will have a magic key for you that will solve your problems. Start taking responsibility for yourself.

I was able to get laid, yes, but I still felt insecure about who I was. Once I finally found a girl I liked and we became a couple, it became disastrous because my insecurities really started to show.

I became good at dating, which I think most people would after practicing the PUA stuff, but most PUAs have the ultimate goal of finding a girl to share their life with. Just because someone can be good at dating doesn’t mean they can have a healthy relationship. All the dating in the world won’t help a guy feel secure with a woman when all he has known his whole life is abandonment.

The advice I gave was stuff that I read about in PUA stuff, and then went out and applied in real life. I could care less if you thought my advice was insightful or not. I received a lot of PM’s from people asking for advice, and I was happy to give it. I can’t expect to please everybody, especially someone with an ego like yours who likes to confront people at every possible chance. You haven’t liked me since you tried to confront my English abilities, so I can imagine the preconceived negative attitude you already have of me even before you read my posts. Hence the fact that you’re attacking my old dating advice, which has nothing to do with what we are talking about right now. As soon as you get defensive, the good grammar and big words start coming out.

I made it a point to separate game from romance. I even openly admitted "I don’t know much about relationships." Now you’re just lying and attacking me.

What? Where is the logic in that?

Being bad with women made me depressed throughout high school, and I found ways to help me get better. I was extremely interested in the subject, and I liked talking about it. Some of the questions people were asking were situations I had been through, so I offered my advice. How can you possibly make the connection that me giving advice relates to my attitude towards women?

Do you want to know why I have the opinion I do of the vaginarium? It’s because many of the guys who seem to be the "authority" on dating advice in there are the same guys who were just messaging me months ago telling me how their dating lives suck and wanted to talk to me about it. I’m not saying the whole vaginarium is like that of course, but there are many.

If I knew what I was supposed to transform into, and knew how to do that, I would. Jesus fuck I’d love to do that.
Socrates, being in a relationship is what reveals insecurities of that nature; not seeing a shrink.

The disaster of my first experience with love is what made me capable of my current experience.

Btw, I guess I confused your romantic advice with Viper’s or someone else’s. Are you sure you never applied pick-up advice to romance?

I agree that my relationship revealed the insecurities. But, I wasn’t smart enough to understand it or know what to do about it. I was always confused because I would tell myself "I thought I was good with women….what the hell is the matter with me."

My first serious relationship was ruined because of my insecurities while I was deployed, and my second relationship was ruined was because I was so terrified it would happen again that I wasn’t able to get close to anyone.

I feel that I’m ready now, and the next relationship will go much better.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that you’re right; my relationships did reveal my insecurities. However, my shrink gave me the tools I needed to overcome them. I still have an emptiness because of my childhood, but I’m actually able to enjoy my day now and be happy.

edit: To be honest, I don’t remember 90% of the advice I used to give, but I do remember being adamant about not giving serious relationship advice. Unless I came in drunk one night and felt like an expert on relationships, I don’t think I would have given that advice.

Yeah I’d be asking for my drinks to be "shaken, not stirred" if we could transform into whoever we want to be!

What are you doing to find out?

reading, follow advice, and going through the motions with a fake smile.
and yet many guys who are less physically attractive and less successful professionally can talk to women with no problems and have their pick of women to date
and don’t turn to alcohol, or you may well have to add a drinking problem to your list of woes

i’ve done this, and lost the pleasure of casual drinking as a result

Try. Fail. Observe the successful person who jumps into the hole left by your failure. Learn from it. Repeat as necessary.

I’m not a bar kinda guy, but the huge advantage to bars is that they’re chock-full of people who don’t give a shit about you, so you can totally fuck up and nobody will remember the next time you stop in for a practice session. Eventually, you’ll learn how to keep their attention on you despite all the other distractions, and at that point, you can stop going to bars and start going to places with people you actually want to be around without worrying about making a fool of yourself.

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I’ve missed you around here! How’s everything with the little lady?
Italy! I hope you’re not overdoing it with all the siteseeing, you need to stay well my friend.

I’d be having the time of my life is I were there.

I was just thinking about you, glad you had a good time at least.

Italy is more of a 2-3 week visit place, honestly. Staying there for months on end can get kinda frustrating…
3 months and already homesick? Enjoy the opportunity. Not many people get the opportunity to live in another country for 3 months. Italy is a nice country. Once you’re back home, you look back and wish you had made more of the opportunity. Man up.
Thanks everyone. Yeah, I’ll be coming back, probably next year for a few more months. I’m coming home with some really exciting ways to hopefully get well. I’ve spent months here and my girlfriend has helped me study and try a lot of new things that I never would have done.

I’ve posted pictures on my myspace for everyone to see if anyone cares. My latests blogs also tell about my trip and things I’ve done.

Cool man….hope you feel better soon and welcome back to the good ole US of A.

I don’t mean a dick, but spending 3 months in Italy is actually a lot harder than it seems. I’d know because I’ve lived there on and off for the last 4 years, with one year-long stint, and several in the 4-8 month range. Doing something like that is so completely and totally different from a vacation, not only because it’s just so much longer, but also because it’s more real. When you’re on vacation, everything is really charming, and great, and wonderful, and you’ve got a return date. You know when you’ll be seeing your family/friends/SO. When you live somewhere for months on end, things start to get a little bit tougher, because everything becomes more real. The actual weight of the time you’re spending there starts to sink in (especially if you’re working), and naturally you start to miss the important people in your life. It also makes it tougher to deal with the frustrations of everyday life (and in Italy, there are plenty). My advice? Don’t do the whole ‘counting down the hours’ thing, because it’ll just make the hours seem that much longer. I do agree that you have to make the most of the opportunity, but the most important thing is to stay positive. If you start getting negative and thinking about how homesick you are, you won’t get much done at all, and you’ll end up depressed…
Just out of curiosity, which part of Italy?

I had a boss from Trieste. She goes apeshit after spending a month there. Nothing gets done within any time frame. Nothing. That’s why trash is STILL piled in the streets in suburban Naples after several months.

She moved to the states when she was 10 or so, so now she’s as American as apple pie. I travel a lot, I hate and love America… there’s really no place like home.

MB, I must have missed it, but why did you go there again?

Exactly. It’s impossible sometimes…

I spent 6 months in the Netherlands, have been to over 15 countries, and now, will be living in Japan for 3 years. Like I said, man up. It’s all about what you make of it. Then again, I’m not really one to get homesick. I love traveling. I’m speaking out of experience, dick

Hahah, we’re in a similar boat, I’ve been all over the world as well! I guess we just have different views on this kind of thing (although I do agree that you need to make the most of the opportunity!), but then again, Italy was the only place that I really felt that way about, hahah. Homesickness was something that I’ve learned to deal with over the years, but it took me a little while. Since I was 15 (so, for the last 5 years or so) I’ve been home for longer than two months TWICE, so I’ve had my share of experience with that, haha

Also, I have to admit that I’m jealous that you get to live in Japan!

Metallic has the advantage that he is with his girlfriend. I came out to Japan 2 weeks ago. Can’t speak the language and don’t know a single person, but I’m loving it. I have to agree with you about Italy. I only visited Italy, and Rome was the only place that got to me. Can’t exactly put my finger on it. Maybe it was being Asian and traveling around with a blonde Russian girl. We got stares everywhere we went. Walk into a restaurant or store, and the whole place would stare at us. Got to be a bit unnerving. Thought I was going to get into fights, especially, on the trains, because guys would stare us down bad. So, I can’t really say what it would be like living in Rome. Didn’t get that in Florence or Venice, though. It’s strange how I’ve been to more countries than States back home. Nothing beats traveling. Gives you a whole different perspective about life and about the States. Even with all our problems, we really do live in a great country. Now, I can’t stand how people complain and whine about the smallest things back home. Things that are a privelidge (sp?), but people think are rights.

You’re also not disabled. Being away from my care providers my doctors, my friends — it’s terrifying, but I had to do it. I had to take a risk to feel alive. I’m glad you’ve had all those opportunities and lived them to the fullest.

It’s true, this country has a lot of awful things happening. It’s a lot like the United States politically now. The political leaders are puppets of the Mafia. They run everything here. You’ve seen "The Departed, Godfather, Good Fellas" — while the exact events obviously are fiction, the activities of The Sopranos, and these movies is exactly what these people are doing. Toxic waste has been dumped all over the streets, trash everywhere in South Italy. The country is in trouble, and facism is gradually returning.

Also, they don’t even acknowledge that Lyme Disease exists here, but a there are tons of people sick with it! And there is no one to treat them. It’s all over Europe too, and the UK, Sweden, everywhere.

I agree. I love and hate my home, but everywhere seems to have it’s good and no so good parts. Denmark is perhaps one of the few places that is nearly perfect right now. Good luck getting in though.

I’m visiting my girlfriends family. Which is a whole other beast. Her father is sick with Lyme (I can tell), but refuses to get treated. He has all the psychiatric symptoms, the abdominal pain, joint problems, fatigue when awakening. Long story, but he loves tending to his garden, and I think he got it there. I caught a nymph tick crawling up my girlfriends leg while we were at a small gathering. It was the size of the period at the end of this sentence. I’m costantly watching for them, you know? They’re the primary carriers of the illness (s). Everyone flipped out when we saw it, and we left! They know this disease well.

I agree, it’s a great country. Too bad our health care system is shot. At least in Italy you can get all your medications and testing for free, but the testing isn’t even accurate for most things.

Too bad my condition is so controversial, the insurance companies won’t cover me, even though I have insurance. They claim that long time antibiotics don’t work for Chronic Lyme Disease, yet antibiotics have been the only thing that have worked in the 21 years that I’ve been trying to get help. I’ve done a lot of treatment, and only tetracycline and a few others have helped.

It’s the same in other countries too. They all follow the IDSA guidelines. The infectious Disease society of America. They were just investigated by the attorney general of connecticut for anti-trust violations. Basically any doctor who believed, based on the available scientific research, that Chronic Lyme Disease exists (Persistent infection), was not allowed to serve on the panel which formulated the guidelines.

Medical doctors and insurance companies use the guidelines to give or deny care!

The investigation concluded on May 1st, and here is what they said:

(1)Reference:

I realize I’m talking a lot about my situation and health here, and I hope it doesn’t bother anyone, but it’s had such a significant impact on my trip, and it’s also a reason I am homesick. I wouldn’t be homesick if I wasn’t stuck inside most of the time and I wouldn’t be stuck inside if these bastards weren’t breaking the law and keeping scientific research suppressed in order to profit financially.

So while stuck inside I’ve been writing letters to politicians over these issues with the illness, and trying to get bills passed to fund research to help solve the problem. Now I’m finding out the IDSA has been lobbying the man (Frank Pallone of NJ) and have him in their pockets. So he refuses to let the bill pass.

It’s a lot of stress having people standing in the way of your recovery, and having such a nice trip affected by that fact.

I absolutely agree. One of the biggest reasons I’ve taken this trip is because I am sick, very sick at times. I physically and neurologically/psychiatrically am affected directly by this health problem. I’ve been encouraged by family friends and my counselor to "consider" getting out of the house, to make a trip, so that I feel I’m living, that I’m seeing the world a little.

Being sick with Lyme is a lot like being in prison. You have your books, your three square meals (If you’re not vomitting them up), and you have a little place to exercise. Beyond that, you don’t like using the phone, light sensitivity and sound sensitivity, as well as "confusion" make going outside a huge activity, overwhelming in-fact.

So being here, has been a massive challenge. Treating my illness has also been hard. When on treatment, antibiotics primarily, I turn into a hermit, and I become a bastard for awhile until they kick in, which can take awhile. I can’t have "any" relationships and very minimal interaction with people during these periods. The only way I can stop this behavior is by stopping treatment.

Can you imagine living like that, and having to pick and choose when you treat, just so people won’t abandon you? Being in Italy has been hard for all those reasons.

I love that I had the balls to do this, and I did see a few things, but in total of 3 months, I’ve spent less than 2 weeks outside.

It’s true. And even though my life at home is just as mundane, so is being here. It’s "charm" wore off after a month and a half. If I was well, I’d have gone non-stop and seen everything. It’s a great country to visit, but like anywhere else, it becomes "the same" after awhile.

Thankfully I don’t do those things, but regardless still end up with the symptoms. I make the best of it, and the best of it is very limited and restricted. I accept that, but it’s made me more homesick because I’m confined a lot.

I want to start my antibiotics back up. I feel sicker now because I stopped, but I didn’t want to have to go back on them. There is nothing anyone can really advise or do for me — but just sharing this helps. It’s so sad to me that I have missed or had so many great opportunities only to watch them fritter away while I’m ill.

I’m just south of Milan. I’ve been there, to Turine and Genoa. I wanted to go to Florence but I couldn’t physically handle staying there for a few nights, so we decided to wait until I return next year.

Sorry for all the complaining, but it really is hard.
^^ Sorry to hear about your condition . Had no idea. Hope everything works out.

It’s alright man. A lot of people here knew I was leaving on this trip and that this stuff was a major issue of concern to me. I just wanted to let everyone know that it was hard, but I still did it. I made it through it so far!

Can’t be anymore frustrating than being at work getting your intelligence insulted and wanting to slit your wrists

(No I am not really going to do that, but I am really fucking tired of some piddly shit going on )

Your positive attitude is overwhelming.

Sorry to hear work is going so poorly for you.

It’s easy for Americans to complain about shit here but for a "first world country" Italy is more like a second tier developing country where nothing gets done right at all and crony capitalism is the soup de jour.

It’s a nice place to visit but any Italian with an education is taking off and heading elsewhere in the EU and abroad pretty quickly.
Sorry I dont give a shit if you are homesick or not you are in an opportunity I will never get and would kill for.

Your like the woman with a loaf of bread under each arm crying because she has no ham.
im glad to hear everything is alright. even though i dont know you i hope nothing but the best for you man! keep it up.
I’ve been hearing about the trash situation in Italy. Can you give a perspective about what is happening over there with the trash?!

Off topic, but I’m loving Japan more and more everyday. The women are absolutely gorgeous. I’ve never dated an Asian, so it’s going to be a new experience. I don’t think I’ll ever date a white woman again. You should see how damn short some of the skirts are that the Japanese women wear. They love to show off their legs, and their is no hint of cellulite. Must be something in the water back in the States that make women so fat and cellulite prone. 80% of the white women I see here are overweight. Must suck to be them to see all these gorgeous, fit Japanese women everywhere!!!!

wait till you get to know them.. you’ll wanna gouge your ears and brain.

Trust me on this. I’ve been there a bunch of times, dated j-girls, best friend is out in yokohama and his gf was a nut case…. hopefully their dad will approve of them dating a white devil.

It’s all good. I have come to the conclusion some are unhappy with themselves so they are just trying to make me unhappy. Too bad. I give NO apology for being satisfied with myself, my life, or any venture I choose to take on.

Why do you want to come back to Springfield anyways,

Enjoy yourself!

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her ortho fucked her over and gave her a steroid injection even though it went against everything her primary, AND the ortho had said on her previous visit, he range of motion is STILL cut in half and 2 weeks later the pain has increased.

shes been trying to get a new ortho, but she is getting denied due to it being a motor vehicle accident, not to mention nationwide (the other ladies insurance) took over 2 months to send a check for the value of the vehicle, has not paid for one medical bill, and basically said "pay for everything out of pocket and sue us when you are done"

her insurance cigna just sent her a letter saying basically "wtf are these bills coming from, if this is a motor vehicle accident you owe us everything we have paid"

her lawyer isnt being much help, and basically all they do is tell her to keep waiting.

its been 3 and a half months, she cant sleep at night because she is in so much pain, every day it hurts her to walk, yet nobody will do a surgery or even tell her anything, the ortho with the cortisone injection fucked her over hardcore…

basically the bills and pain keep piling up with no end in sight, she says its ok because here parents are paying for most of it, but she has to pay it back…

its to the point right now where if she got 50k back AFTER lawyer fees she still might owe money for doctor bills.

wtf right?
get a new lawyer.

usually doctors (ortho’s) don’t like to get involved in MVA injuries because everything has to be documented and everything has to be picture perfect in case the doctor is called to court or has to give up documentation.

I say she find a top notch orthopedist in her area and work from there. If she waits any longer to find a new one, things are gonna get worse and doctor’s aren’t going to want to finish up where another doctor left off.

and why isn’t her insurance paying for anything? she can run everything through her insurance, keep all bills/documentation and then run through nationwide (other woman’s insurance) as a payback

Insurance will cover it, just not ALL doctor offices will run through insurance and demand out of pocket pay.
i’ve never gone to a doctor’s office that has never been through an insurance company.

she should find a new doctor

I was wondering if you were the g/f mentioned in the OP.

What would I do, I wouldn’t get permission to go to another doctor, I would set up the appointment myself and go see them. I would NOT take shit from anyone….keep in mind, if you weren’t at fault, the insurance company for the other person will have to pay for all reasonable bills. reasonable is the key here this is why an good attorney is worth their weight in gold.

Now one thing that was VERY surprising to me was that eventhough I didn’t do anything wrong in my car wreck, I still had to pay all the medical bills. I had $30,000 in medical bills and it was totally NOT my fault.

Now I didn’t have the money to pay those bills so I started making payments but I couldn’t understand why this was on me, I didn’t do anything wrong. Why did I have to pay for my healing/medical care??

Now that I’m on the other side of it, I understand what’s happened. The hospital doesn’t care about guilt. They aren’t the courts….it’s not their concern at all. What they care about is that they are providing me with hospital care. Therefore, I have to pay for it….or my insurance does.

Then I had to go after the people that were at fault to collect. I had to sue everyone and work it out in court. Once I had filed a lawsuit, I was able to stop making payments and when the doctors/hospitals called me, I said, "Call my lawyer" and they eventually stopped calling me to make payments.

But it still seems wrong to me. That eventhough I did nothing wrong, I still have to pay. It’s goofy but it’s the way it works.
Does she not have PIP insurance? I know its required in alot of states…

If so, HER insurance should be paying her medical, and then they deal with the other insurance.

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-had a kidney trasnplant at 26, he’s 54 now
-2 years went into a coma, turned out to be liver failure (probably from the rejection meds, he’s not a drug/alcohol user)
-now is trying to get on the liver/kidney transplant list at UCLA
-is in the hospital about 4 times a year with the liver problems, which is extreme confusion/depression
-has lost 50 lbs over this time

Now he is in the hospital again and it’s worse this time and looks like he may not leave. It has been 5 days, which is usually about the time he gets out. His confusion is better, but his kidney function is bad. He has one test left before the transplant team makes their decision on his transplant…it’s an angiogram where they need to use contrast fluid, this could throw his into total kidney failure and he would need to be on dialysis…not sure of the effect on the liver. They are probably just going to end up doing the test because his liver only has a few months left as well as his kidney before he passes anyway, so the transplant is his only hope, so hopefully the test won’t do too much damage. Also, he’s getting a blood transfusion today because his white blood count is low.

Problem is that now he has really lost his will to live. Before he was so excited about the transplant and talking about going back to school to be a paralegal, and fixing up his car. It breaks my heart and we’ve tried to talk to him and say that he’s young and we need him still and my sister is only 19 and his mom lives with my parents, but he says we hate him, etc etc.

I really don’t know what to do, at all. On top of all of this, on the way to the hospital on Monday my mom flipped her car 3 times and totaled it. Luckily she is totally fine besides a few bruises, but obviously shaken up and very worried about eventually telling my dad about it.

ok sorry, that was a shitty summary, but it’s so complicated.
It sounds like he wants to live, but because hes been down this road soooooooooooo many times before its tough for him. He needs you to support him while hes goes through this even harder time. Just try to cheer him up and be on his side. Hopefully the docs will decide he does need the transplant soon.
Fuck Calisteph, I’m am so sorry What’s the best way we can support you through this?

pm me or aim me if you want to talk

Thanks, but I’m really more worried about him right now. He’s become really depressed/angry. He’s mad at us for not letting him go home. We tell him he needs another test to get on the list and he says he doesn’t care and he wants to go home and die.

I mean, it is hard on me. I’ve always been really close to my dad and I just can’t imagine my life without him in it, but right now I barely think of that, because I’m more worried about his mental status than my own.
You said he wanted to fix up his car. Maybe you can take a pic of it and bring it in for him to keep by his bedside. Getting excited about a passion and give him some motivation and drive. He’s way too young to be giving up.
I understand.

The last time my mom was diagnosed with cancer she decided after a few weeks of treatment that she wanted to stop all treatments and just come home to die. It was the most horrifying month of my life. I was too afraid to move- I would literally laid in bed for days.. not talking to anyone, not leaving my apt, just letting the days slip by. I felt like if I even breathed too deeply I would shatter into a million little pieces. I would beg her to keep trying- telling her my brothers and I needed her, that there was so much we didn’t know, how could we go on without her? It was excruciating. Just thinking about it actually became physically painful.

I don’t know if she really wanted to die or not, but after a very intense fight between her, my dad and my brothers, she started treatment again. I can’t even imagine enduring that for an extended period of time the way you have. You are very strong. I’m so sorry that you and your family have to live in that pain and fear everyday.

I never wanted to talk about it when it was happening either- I was far too worried about my mom and I couldn’t bring myself to talk about it anyway. However, if you happen to change your mind, we’re here to support you.
You can’t give up on your dad and you absolutely have to stay strong. Yeah I know I may sound like the typical person, but unfortunately I’ve been down that road with dealing with a sick parent. My mom was very sick. She had scleroderma, where basically it’s an auto immune disease that affects your internal organs and your body starts to slowly shut down. Last year starting in March all the way through August she went into the hospital 5 times. (Had open heart surgery, had a stent inserted, went through multiple x rays, angiograms, was hooked up to a ventilator for 2 weeks, etc.) She fought with my dad and me screaming that she doesn’t want to take her medications, that she’s sick and tired of all this shit and that she just wants to die. Everytime she went into the hospital, no one could do anything for her so she got sick of it all. She kicked the doctors and nurses out of her room, refused treatment, etc. How did I deal with all of this? I don’t know… I didn’t give up though. As much as I wanted to lash out on her and call her a selfish person I didn’t. I tried my very hardest to stay strong, to be by her bedside and talk to her even though she was unconcious encouraging her to hold on. Give your dad a reason to live. Tell him your future plans or what you guys could do together when he gets out. Bring him some stuff from home..pictures of his car, of his family, etc. Take breaks…walk out of his room and take a deep breath if he’s being really hard to deal with. Think of what you would want people to do if you were in his shoes. You need to also prepare yourself for the worse. Well you can’t actually prepare, but still, I think you know what I mean. I’m saying this from experience because unfortunately my mom didn’t make it through. At least I know that she isn’t suffering anymore and that’s the only thing that will keep me going. This is the best advice that I can personally give you. If you have any questions about anything let me know and please keep us updated.
The only thing I have to say is don’t tell your Dad about the car accident unless you are forced into it.
Your Dad has enough problems right now.

If the insurance company needs his signature then you tell him. When he comes home from the hospital then you tell him.
But for the exact moment.
Leave it be.

Good luck. Be strong.

No it wasn’t shitty at all.

I’m so sorry that you and you’re family are going through this right now.

I know, first hand, the frustration that comes from having a loved one that has lost their will to live. My dad went through a time like this yet he lived for 2 more years!! See my dad found my brother, after my brother had committed suicide (pistol to the head). It broke my dad emotionally and he just couldn’t go on. He didn’t want to….life was too difficult…..yet he lived for 2 more years.

I had to watch him go from being a normal, healthy man to someone who I couldn’t even have a conversation with. It was awful and I felt so powerless to help. I literally didn’t know what to say or do to snap him out of the funk he was in. It was so hard to not just rage at him.

If I had it to do over again, I would be much more pro-active in helping him deal with stuff. I would take get him doing some things like mild exercise. I would also add humor….a LOT MORE humor. I’d prolly take him on easy walks or even riding bikes. I would rent really funny movies that he used to like and just watch them when we’re together. I’d play more music he liked in the house. I’d tell him more…..that I love him and that I’m here for him.

Sadly tho, I can’t do those things because less than 2 years after my bro died, my dad died. That’s been 21 years ago and now, I’m much more assertive with those I care about. I did the best I could at the time but I now know, I could have done so much more. I just wanted God to fix him…I also didn’t realize how depressed he was. I mean I kinda knew but I didn’t accept it. I really just thought he would get better. If I had any idea that it might lead to his death, I would have done soo much more.

I don’t know if that helps or not but hang in there and I’ll keep you and your family in my prayers.
update:

he’s a lot better mentally now. He wants the transplant, wants to live, tells me he loves me when I leave and is generally in a way better mood.

they’re doing the last test on Monday probably. Obviously it’s good that we’re moving forward, but now I’m so scared that he won’t pass or something and I’m just worrying about stupid things, like even if he does pass what if something happens during the transplant.

Uh…he’s been sick for so long, but when he was stable, but terminal, I could just put it in the back of my mind. Now it’s good because we were being proactive about fixing the problems, but obviously all the procedures are very dangerous.
Thanks for the update! I’m glad to hear your father is doing better Keep us updated as new news comes in and try to take care of yourself too
Yeah I’m also glad for the update and will continue to keep you and your family in my prayers. Hang in there.
So my grandpa went in a few weeks ago for surgery on his bladder and yesterday at his follow-up appointment the doctor confirmed he has prostate cancer.

seriously… I don’t think it’s possible for a family to have more bad luck this week.

there really isnt anything we can say at this point. it’s just one of those things that you have to deal with. the similar feeling that everyone has is that you want to take some of the pain…as you feel guilty that they have to go through this alone. it will get better over time, but during this time, just focus on being there for them. when people go through stuff like this they tend to become really isolated and want to be left alone. the truth is that this is when they need support…even if they act like they dont want it, they need it badly!

good luck to you!
update:

He had his angiogram (heart test) and it came out pretty good except I guess one side of his heart doesn’t pump as hard as they would like. I’m really crossing my fingers that this doesn’t exclude him from getting on the transplant list. Still no word on the effect on his kidneys or whether he’ll need dialysis.

He was super upbeat for a few days and now he’s back down in the dumps. He cries a lot and says he doesn’t know how much longer he can take being in the hospital. I just try to hug him and say the DRs are trying to take care of him and then I ask him what he’s going to do when he gets out.
update:

the heart test excluded him from being able to get a transplant.

I’m kinda just in shock right about now.

I’m certain that this means more to him than he could ever express to you. He’s lucky to have a loving daughter like you to help him. We should all be so lucky.

I’m sorry to hear that his test excludes him from the transplant list.

I’m not sure if this will help but one never knows. A while back I found a doctor that has scientifically been able to prove the reversal of heart disease. His research spans decades and he has documented many success stories. Here’s one of his books….I hope it helps.

Thanks for the rec…he’s going to the cardiologist soon to see if anything can be fixed to make hims eligible. The book doesn’t look like it really applies to him, b/c his arteries are clear and cholesterol is low…it’s to do with an irregular heartbeat and the way his blood pumps.
Oh ok…well perhaps you’re right. It might not be the best book. However, you can prolly find it at the library for free, if you’re interested.

I hope your dad feels better soon.
aww so update time

my mom had gotten that news from the UCLA transplant lady, who is "miss doom and gloom." When she got the written statement from them, it said he was denied because of his cardiac status that could be corrected with diarisis (sp), which means he has fluid around his heart and he needs either water pills or dialysis, which is VERY correctable.

Not nearly as bad as the woman made it out to be to my mom. And although I know my mom to be a drama queen, I’ve also meet the woman, and she is a downer.

So my dad has an appt with his primary and his kidney MD early next week, do onward!! And his spirits are much better with this news!
That’s AWESOME!! I’m really happy for you and your family.

Thanks for the update.
UPDATE:

my dad got on the transplant list!! Now he just has to get financial approval before he’s officially on the list and then as soon as all his numbers line up he’ll get a transplant!!

yay!

Congrats Steph! Hope it all works out for the best, you and your family are in my thoughts.
I hope things work out for your dad. I can’t even imagine the thought of losing one of my parents. Please keep us updated.
For those of you who don’t venture into the main I figured I would post an update in here as well.

main forum thread:

My dad had a cardiac arrest and a major heart attack on Thursday and Yesterday (Friday) we pulled the plug, as he had no brain function and was in a deep coma.

I’d like to thank you guys for all of your words of encouragement in this thread. I really wished things would have turned out differently, but he was a very sick man.
Aww I’m sorry to hear this.

You and your family will still be in my prayers.
i’m so very sorry for your loss.

you and your family will be in my thoughts.
I’m sorry

Much respect to him.

G
My prayers are with you, your family and your dad. I’m so so sorry for your loss

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My lease ended in January. I gave them 30 days notice, signed the papers and all. Moved out on Jan. 27th.

Now, it is freakin’ july, and I get a call from collections saying that I never gave 30 days notice, and my lease ended April 23rd And they are demanding $2000 in the next 30 days.

This pisses me off to no end. Guy asked me for my address so he could end me information, I was like hell no I asked for his fax number. I’m gonna open an efax account, and fax him, then have me send all the info through efax. Cause I’m not letting those faggots know where I live

I’m gonna see what I can do when I send my claim to their lawyer. But I highly doubt it will do much.

I’m terribly poor… and incredibly psychotic. I’m the kind of person who wakes up everyday wishing I died in my sleep. This shit better turn in my favor, because I really don’t want to have to go down to this management company and hurt anybody, because I have nothing to lose.

Maybe it’s too early for this thread, I should wait until I get a response from their after sending my response, but I’m so furious I needed to vent.
well, do you have your copy of the original lease, that shows your jan31 termination date? i still have every lease ive ever signed in my closet.
If you’ve got paperwork to prove you are in the right then it is not an issue.

Some debt collection groups operate as basically a scam. Hit people for money they don’t owe.

Do not resort to violence. It will not get you anywhere
You’re in the right, you have nothing to worry about. I know you’re feeling like shit and the world is collapsing over nothing, but don’t worry, you can still win. I’d suggest getting in contact with your tenant act in your State and see what your rights are. Even if you can show a bank statement with like 1000 bucks taken out or a cheque for the same or about the same every month for 12 months, I’m sure you’ll be fine.
That’s really fucked up. I hope you have a copy of your 30 day notice. If not, make one up, date it, and photocopy it as evidence. Between this and the parking shit, I’m really glad I don’t live in AZ.

Just call their bluff… I have a feeling something is not right with this, either.
Whatever you do don’t pay. It could be that the next owner of that appartment is some druggie who’s refusing to pay.

Exactly HOW did you give them 30 days notice? Was it verbal? Then you need to know the name of the person you talked to. You need to think about when you gave this notice to the person and exactly the circumstances surrounding it. That person should verify it.

If you gave written notice (something which everyone should do because it’s the only true proof) you need to send them a copy of the notice. You would still have to prove that it was delivered to them but a copy of the letter is better than nothing.

The way that I’ve always handled it is to write it out, make a copy, then send a certified letter with return receipt requested. You need to keep that letter and the return receipt for at least 2 years as I believe that’s the statute of limitations on this sort of thing.

If you had all that, all you’d have to do is make copies of it and send it to them and you’d be off the hook.

One other thing to ask is how did they calculate $2,000?

Oh and one other thing, they have your SSN so it’s not like you can hide from them and they WILL put a mark on your credit rating and try to fuck your credit over…..all in the attempt to put pressure on you to pay up. Keep in mind, you’re dealing with lawyers at the collections agency and these people are pros. They deal with this shit everyday and they know all the loopholes.

Look just don’t ignore this, follow up and make sure you try to stay calm thoughout the process. There’s no reason to resort to violence….that will turn this from a simple misunderstanding into a crime.
From my experience most collection agencies are scams. One try to shake me down saying I owed $1,500 in medical bills. I called my insurance company and they told me they took care of everything and that the doctor’s office was just trying to get more money out of me. (Doctor was billing the Insurance company AND me for the same exact thing).
Read this:

There are many laws governing how debt is collected. You are off to a good start by demanding they fax you a letter with the bill and anything else.

I’d also demand the same from the apartment complex and verify that they are indeed trying to collect debt from you.

This is true. Always keep a copy of every document when renting or buying something. Keep a copy of the lease, keep a copy of the written 30 day notice, and keep a copy of the final release terms when you move out.

If you don’t have a copy of the 30 day notice, do you at least have a copy of the lease agreement and final paperwork? It might help you to figure out what you can do. You basically need to establish that you 1) followed all the rules 2) a timeline of events

That way if they still try to fuck you over you can threaten a counter lawsuit and if the debt collector fucks up, a lawsuit for them for breaking the law (if it is a scam, this is where they would probably say fuck it and stop trying to collect the debt). It’s a 1000 dollars per incident of them breaking the law.

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