/thread
stop torturing yourself by checking up on her. shit will get better, it always does. seeing a therapist would definatly help. I wish i had done it sooner, i wasted so many years battling my demons on my own. the help is there, it will make you feel better, faster. GL.
You have the power to turn it all around. You have the power to create a life of your dreams. You want to quit but don’t….this too shall pass.

It’s in our darkest moments that we come face to face with who we are and it’s in these moments that we can make enormous changes in our lives.

I think you need help and support through this time and I agree, you need therapy. You can also go get some books from the library. One I would suggest is by Anthony Robbins called Awaken The Giant Within. It’s a fantastic book that will teach you how to make big changes in your life.

You are not the only one that has been in this kind of situation. I have too, not a divorce but I was so close to bankruptcy that it was amazing I made it out without one. I had to realize that I didn’t know shit and I needed to learn how to live in this world. When I was soo fucking miserable and alone and broke, I sold the one valuable asset I had left….a police scanner. It was like a $500 scanner and I sold it for $250, I think. I took that money and bought Anthony Robbins "Personal Power" tape program and that started me on my journey.

Now on that journey I happened to discover that I was also an alcoholic and I needed help to treat that fucking disease. None of this was easy but I’m so glad I hung in there because life can be really beautiful.

I’ve been through hell on earth and came out the other side a better man. You can to. It’s totally worth it and I hope you’ll make the choice to carry on.

Good Luck and God Bless.

you go on because it is what you do. most people have a shit life with a shit future. it is a sad fact but it is still better than not existing at all.

you just have to look at all the little things that make you smile. that’s all life really is. the little things. the things you know you would miss if you never got to experience them again.

trust me i think about not going on a lot. it always hangs over me like a cloud and sometimes i lift my arms begging the lightning to strike me. you just have to find one reason to go on. that’s all you need.

hang in there sweetie

I started seeing one last week but cannot get into see him again for about 2 weeks. Not sure how its going to help

She is my wife, I love her more than I love myself. All I ever wanted in life was someone like her and to be moderately successful and now she is gone and if I dont pass this work test, Im out of a job. With no job, no dual income and my debt I will never escape so there is no point in going on.

yes there is!

You can escape…even if it all turns to shit. You can declare bankruptcy if it gets bad enough. You can also try to cut back on expenses and work your way out of it.

There’s a lot to live for….overcome something as huge and smothering as a mountain of debt is an amazing feeling. I’ve been there and done that.
you’ve been living your life for your wife, start living life for yourself. you deserve someone better.
thinking of war helps, take a look through a WW2 gallery, take some time to realise that no matter what the hell you think you are going through now, 1000’s and 1000’s of people before you have been through much worse just so you have the chance to live today freely.

ok, so you’re not competing with the rest of the world in terms of glamorous lifestyle, but you’ve got to start small when you’re rebuilding your life, and when you succeed, you’ll have much stronger foundations to your character than those who have never had to deal with and conquer problems.
I gotta ask; what did you do, or not do, that caused all of these things to happen? Since it is your life, you must be implicated somehow. So what did you do wrong? And what can you do differently?

no no. no one has to do something wrong. Right and wrong are merely labels, try to think of what you can take away from the situation, try to learn and better yourself because of it. but first comes grieving, take your time brother no need to rush these things.
get over it i used to live in a storage shed with nothing but a case of beer and a sleeping bag.

things get tough sometimes, they only get too tough if you decide to make them that way
Here’s how I think of things. There is no point to life. Therefore I can make whatever I want out of it whenever I want, however I want (Within reason of course).

If you don’t like the past learn to forgive and let go and then move on. This is the toughest part but a good way of thinking about it is that the past, just like the future, only exists in your mind. If you are hung up about something it’s because you let it. You will be worm food soon enough, don’t be foolish and kill yourself now.

Here’s some shit to put your mind on the right track:

1832- Lost job and defeated for state legislature
1833- Failed in Business and as a farmer
1835- Love of his life died
1836-Had nervous breakdown
1838-Defeated for speaker
1843-Defeated for nomination for congress
1848-Lost renomination
1849-Rejected for land officer
1854-Defeated for US Senate
1856-Defeated for nomination for Vice President
1858-Again defreated for senate

1860- President Lincoln

Now these are just footnotes on his tough life but he learned from his mistakes and obviously didn’t dwell on the past in a negative way or else he woudln’t have tried, and failed, so often.

Completely off subject, but Lincoln never attempted to be a farmer.

But Lincoln is always an incredible example of someone who was brought up with nothing and achieved what many consider success.

… oddly enough sounds kinda like fun. i live my life for new experiences, and that sounds like quite an experience.

Shit. I didn’t write it though and I’ve lived in Canukistan for 24 years so you’ll have to forgive me on missing some details of American history.

Why do people think they have the only true history of someone or something. Isn’t it possible that he did try to be a farmer and you just haven’t read that book or heard that story?
Listen clearly.

All things will come to pass.

This, as remarkable as it seems, is a potent time of self discovery. This is when you can learn the most about yourself.

So what if we lose our job? When one door closes, another one is opened. Something must die in order for something to be born.

You are probably just really, really tired by the sounds of it. And I have felt that tremendous weight. Had I known now, then, I would have used those terrible experiences as extreme self observation.

You are becoming very identified with the situation. We cannot be like that, we cannot identify with these chemical messengers, this will get us killed.

If you find that you are becoming very identified with the cowards door out – suicide – please give yourself a half hour, please allow yourself to contact multiple people, and please notify the authorities.

Yes, they will take you to a safe place, and if you cooperate, you will not be getting out of there until you get your head clear. There are other ways of clearing your head other then a gun.

That is important. Do not give yourself time to identify with terrible things, if you feel the push to leave life because it is so terrible at a given time, please contact someone to rescue you.

I cannot recommend any more then that, because first sir it is imperative that you give a shout for help so we can find you, in the dark cloud you are in. I cannot hear you from here, however others can, I recommend 911.

Do not let the darkness that is hell surround you and choke you to death. It is all but an illusion, one that seems to have no end!
You kept threatening to leave her, so she left you instead.
Every time you tell a woman to leave you make them feel a little less loved and a lot less self worth, you can be damned sure you’re not the only one in pain right now. She won’t want anything to do with you for a long time.
You will find someone else and won’t make the same mistakes. Life goes on, life gets better.

Of course it’s possible, but I’ve read many letters that Lincoln wrote himself expressing how he had absolutely no desire to ever be a farmer.

There has to be some point of convincing. To me, his own words are very convincing.

I always thought he grew up farming and couldn’t do it because he hated it so much.
I’ve always wondered (keep in mind this is completely coming from a logical standpoint and not an emotional one at all) that if one was suicidal, why not just entirely devote your life to benefiting others? If you’re ready to die, you obviously don’t care about what happens to you, so why not help others (greater good)? Go make someone else happy.

That might even release some feel-good chemicals and make you want to live again.

edit – I’m sure tho that if one is suicidal, they probably don’t care about other people, much less themselves, and therefore wouldn’t be inclined to dedicate their life to benefiting others. Depression chemicals in the brain and such.

That’s exactly right.

When I say he "never had a desire to do it," I mean he didn’t like it even when he was forced to do it by his father. Once he broke away from his family and went out on his own, he didn’t want to farm and he didn’t think much of his farmer father either.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned so far in life…it’s that negative thoughts results in negative events. When you sit around and sulk about how terrible your life is, you aren’t accomplishing anything, you’re digging yourself deeper.

I used to be in the same boat, I felt like all the shit in the world rested on my shoulders. I was one class away from failing out of college, I was in a deteriorating relationship of 3 years (girl cheated on me), and I wasn’t getting along with my parents. Literally overnight, I had an epiphany and decided that I was going to quit with the bullshit. It helps to realize that no matter what is going on in your life, most people out there probably have it worse (you have a place to live, you live in a country where there’s more opportunity than many others, you’re healthy). No matter what happens in your life, you will still have problems to deal with. If you win the lottery tomorrow, your problems won’t disappear. The difference between those who live happily, and those who don’t, is completely controllable with your mind.

Think positive, and good things will happen. When something negative happens, take it as a lesson learned. Instead of wasting your time crying about it, understand what went wrong and use it to improve something you still have control over…your future. I know it sounds really fucking cliche, but I can vouch for it because I live by it. I’ve since graduated college, I moved out of state to a place I feel I’ll live for the rest of my life, I have a new girlfriend of almost 3 years that is a perfect match, we’ve bought a house, stable job, and I’ve never been happier.
If you’ve ever been in a position in your life where you just can’t take any more, you just have to get through the next second, and the next second after that.
Michael Novak

go for it and tell me how you liked it

I lived like that for a while and thought it was a blast because I knew that it was temporary (Well it wasn’t certain to be temporary but I was naive so it made it fun. Everything just turned out right).

dude sounds like you need a hooker and i just poped my cherry

Congratulations, keeler, you’ve grasped the concept of relativism. (NOT relativity.)

However, I think we can all agree on a common definition of a good life being one that you’re happy with, so if his life is not the way he wants it to be, then he has clearly done something wrong. I want to know what it is; I want him to tell me what he’s done, and what other people have done, that have resulted in his life being so miserable, because until he defines what is wrong action, he can’t start to take right actions. It doesn’t have to seem like a good idea to me — maybe shooting heroin three times a day is what he’s always wanted to do with his life — but as you so aptly pointed out, he has a definition of right and wrong, and he needs to start doing what he thinks is right. I’m just trying to make sure he know what that is.

That cannot possibly be your first post. Are you really that stupid?

Not that I was totally living for it.

Right now I am starting to go through these feelings of ending it again. I have court coming on Wednesday and I have a feeling that I will get served divorce papers that day. I made it through my probationary period at work but now its like, why the fuck bother. What do I have to look forward to? I am totally alone. I come home each night to an empty house with everything that reminds me of her. I think about all that I have done for her and all the fun that we have had and then now to know that she is making plans to move on without me. And I cannot even contact her. What do I do? I cant focus on anything, I joined the gym but havent gone yet. I think of it as pointless. Im rambling here but I just do not know why I should keep on enduring this shit.

Not sure how to respond to this except I try not to think about it but I cannot stop, its how my brain works. I cant stop thinking of the failure.

After I got my DUI in January I had that same epiphany, I decided I was going to just be happy. I did everything that I could to be happy and look at things differently. As I did that I tried to get Megan to do it with me and she resisted. She kept saying that she would make changes and never did. That is what pushed me over the limit that night I got arrested.

Plus now its like I lost her income. Now Im not going to be able to pay bills and to make more than the minimum payments so how the hell will I ever go and make it on my own. Its like this just totally fucked me and all my plans for the future.

If I had my way I would relocate, get out of here and move to TX, NM, AZ, AL somewhere in the good old South. Maybe I could float out a resume or two and see if someone would re-locate me.

You cannot force yourself to stop thinking. You must observe the relationship between yourself and the world around you to become self aware, and by becoming aware you stop the thinking.

Thinking leads down no good roads. Thinking is a waste of time, and only has an occasional use here or there.

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For example, last Friday I crashed pretty hard depression wise. I was driving home late at night and all I could think about was crashing my truck into a brick wall. I’m my mind I knew I was being stupid, but it was hard to control the urges. But I was able to, knowing that the next day will hopefully be better. And you know what? It was! That Saturday I went out with my friends and had an amazing time.

You should see a therapist, seriously. It takes time to find the right one, if the first one sucks, move on. If money is an issue, go through the county health services.
I get up to the same routine every morning in hopes that i make a positive impact in my son’s life. I somehow hope that he’ll she what i do daily, the way i treat people, the way i manage my family and he’ll do the same.
To see what new things I can learn each day, usually.
If you give up now, who’s going to answer the questions you have had?
The fact that my life is awesome after years of making it so.

iwishyouwerebeer ladies and gentlemen

Hey

24 seconds in

those sorts of thoughts aren’t really normal.
You associate pleasure and sensations with happiness.

Your friends will eventually die or stop hanging out with you. All things come to pass.

What then?

If you did not see your friends (which could potentially happen), will you run into a brick wall next time?

I think I have successfully sabotaged two "good friendships". The fact is, I kept running back into the same problems with them, and those problems left me feeling empty. Then again, I get terribly depressed at lack of male companionship.

I had to cut my losses. I had no choice. I will suffer for sacrificing my friends, however there is no such thing as going to the gym or doing anything – besides involvement in drugs. Because they cannot or do not want to leave their apartment, one has a child, the other just prefers to smoke weed and not go to the gym, when he says he wants to give it up and go to the gym.

You need foundation to fall back on.

And quite honestly man, it needs to be you. And not you, as in your personality, as in your Being. There will be times when you need to fall back on something such as meditation or prayer or I don’t know, because your wife may be the reason for your troubles. That is why you can’t fall back on her or him. Clearly I am into spirituality and I fall back on exactly that. It is my foundation stone. It is a ray of hope when the world around me falls into a shit heap. And it works well.

I hate to even bring this quote up but a good metaphor would be from the Bible where they talk about the man who built his house upon sand, and the man who built his house upon a rock.

Sand representing separate, many, different entities…

A rock, representing one.

I’ll leave it there.
I get up in the morning because I have to work on being a better human. My pursuit in life is to make myself better in every way possible. I need to work on my technical skills for my career, my fitness for my health, my personality for my social life, playing the bass guitar as a hobby, etc. etc.

There’s so much to do, and so little time to do it all. I don’t understand people who contemplate suicide… obviously you are feeling depressed or mentally unstable if you have those feelings, why not try to fix that instead of taking the easy way out?

btw, I know fixing such things is damn hard. I know, because it’s taken me a long time to be where I’m at
If it’s weekday, then I get up because I have to go to work.
If it’s weekend, then I get up because I’ve slept enough.

I’m not being sarcastic or anything. You don’t need a high ideal reason to get up in the morning if you are generally happy.
Because I know my life can and will be much more than what it is today.

And because there are a lot of people with really serious issues that threat their life, such as cancer or war, yet they fight to live. Because I don’t have such problems, it’d be really unfair if I just decided I don’t want to live life.

same reason here.

i get up because my alarm is going off or i’ve slept enough. once i’m awake and it’s later in the day, i might start to ponder what a great day it is and so forth. however, from being asleep to awake, the only thought going through my head is "ernt ernt ernt ernt ernt ernt".
The reason I keep strong is because my mother gave everything she had and more for me, even when she had nothing to give but love. Even on my worst days, every day I experience something she wished for herself. They may be small, but I have many blessings to count.
I get up each day because it’s inevitable. I know the depression you’re talking about too. Mine is biological, caused by an infectious disease. As the antibiotics do their job, the depression and other symptoms improve, but it’s a very slow and hard journey.

Depression can be caused by so many things, so what I do is go after all of them.

As far as getting up, I do it because I like living, I like being awake, conscious, and choosing who I’m going to be in each moment. It’s an experience to know that the universe is awake and alive through you, seeing itself and reflecting that reality. Unfortunately we’re also susceptible to all the pain and suffering that come with the opportunity of experience.

That’s a fact, no one can deny it.
Because I want to see what the day will offer me. It might be the best day of my life, it might be the worst. I might laugh my ass off for most of the day or feel really down because of something that happened. It might even be one of many "meh" days where nothing exciting, but nothing really terrible happens. But I don’t KNOW what will happen until I get up and live out that day. Who knows, that day could change your entire life if you just allow yourself to be open to the things around you and take any random opportunities that present themselves.
If you didn’t have a reason to get up in the morning, that would be reason enough to get up in the morning… To get a reason.
I get up because I realize how lucky I am to be alive right now. The odds that I even exist and can think about it are so astronomically bad that I am thankful. I never think about killing myself but I get intese bouts of thought about how I don’t know how to give meaning to my life. It get’s bad because there isn’t any universal meaning to life and it’s purpose is whatever the individual makes of it. I am just at a total loss as to what that is for me or how to go about finding it out.

But then I think that I will be gone soon enough and if it takes me my whole life to find that meaning, it will still be a life lived. When this thought hit me for the first time I found myself sleeping better and getting up earlier. It’s this thought that there are no rules or wrong methods on how to live life and that drives me to do basically everything I do, from meeting women to the type of work I am doing.
I just do. Too much of a wuss to kill myself. Too much of a wuss to find/make a reason.
lots of things in life may suck but overall i think its pretty good… i dont have a need to justify continuing living my life with something specific
if im depressed for one reason or another i like to think its just a phase and try to find a way out of it or concentrate on things that are still good like my jobbb…

I spent a semester living alone, next to the beach, at the end of college. I spent most of my time alone, I slept in the living room with the TV on, and when I wasn’t in class or asleep, I was drunk. When I did sleep, I slept until I simply couldn’t keep my eyes closed anymore, despite the splitting headaches I got from staying in bed for 16+ hours. Basically, I hated my life that semester.

Eventually, I realized that the problem was I had grown up with the attitude that I needed validation to feel like something. This applied to everything in my life except four things: eating, sleeping, taking a shit, and riding my bike. (Biking was the one thing, apparently, that I never sought approval for before I’d allow myself to enjoy it.)

I’m not entirely sure how (I do know it involved biking on the beach at night, though), but over the next few months I came to terms with the fact that the validation I expected to get, and wasn’t getting because I was alone, was totally irrelevant; the people I expected to approve of my choices in life were just as mortal as I was: they made mistakes, they had prejudices, they didn’t know everything, and most importantly, they were going to die as surely as I was. Once I acknowledged that the basic constants of my life applied equally to them, I was able to accept that there was nothing special about other people that granted them any right to tell me what I could do with my life.

With that out of the way, I found it much easier to do things simply because I wanted to. Now I get out of bed in the morning either because I have something I want to do, or because I’m not tired anymore and I’m ready for life to throw me a curveball.

Maybe you have the same problem. Think it over.
not sure if it was being raised catholic or what but i just have this feeling that if i keep getting up and living until it’s my time to die then i’ll finally have peace… i know it’s stupid but i feel like if i didnt get up and just let myself fade away then i’d have to live through this hell again and to be honest i dont think i could my luck would have it that no matter what i get to wake up and start this shitty life over and this feeling to keep going on is just built into me to make the agony that much sweeter for whoever is doing this
There is a certain something about being Catholic, isn’t there?
I get up because I live in hope my life will magicly turn around for the better.

I’m pretty sure it never will and i’ll end up leaving a note before long but i guess its keeping me going for the moment.

:/

Life doesn’t turn around by accident, it requires your conscious effort and choice to increase the probabiliy of results that you want, to happen. And certainly don’t end your life, there are resources and options. You aren’t alone.
I get up everyday because I’m not on the edge trying to decide whether I want to live or die.

I’m alive and when I’m alive I go to bed and when I can’t sleep anymore or when the alarm goes off, I get up. It’s not like I think….FUCK!! The alarm went off and now I have to think of a reason to get up.

I get up because I’m alive. It’s that simple.

I’ve long since realized a few things:
A) I will die eventually, just like everyone else
B) I may only get one go around in this life (if I kill myself, I might have blown the only chance I had)
C) I can create any life that I want
D) What one man has done, another man can do…..or woman.

Now I haven’t always been this way. In fact, when I was 18 my oldest brother killed himself. He was only 32 at the time. 32….that’s so fucking young it’s amazing to me. Not even 2 years later my dad died and my world spiraled out of control.

Now having to face so much heartache and pain at such an early age made me think deeply about life and death. I was staring death in the face on a daily basis. I kept on living, trying to make a better life for myself because I didn’t want to cause my mom or my other siblings anymore pain than they had already been through. That is the only thing that kept me going in those dark days……and I struggled to understand life and death.

I don’t know that I understand it today but I just try to keep it really simple. I’m alive right now. As long as I am, I have another opportunity to make a better life for myself…..but in order to turn that opportunity into a reality, I have to do my part. I can’t lay in bed, hoping that things will get better. I can’t sleep the day away and then pray for some miracle to save me.

If I want a better life, it’s up to me to create it. In order to do so, I need a few things. I need to pick a direction to travel…..in other words, I need to pick a career. There are plenty I just need to pick one and move in that direction. I also need to be patient because correcting what’s wrong in my life takes time and effort. I can’t just decide one day to be different and immediately become that. I must work towards that goal and sometimes it just takes time. Finally, I need perseverance. I need to stay the course when it gets difficult. Just because something is difficult doesn’t mean I’m doing something wrong.

I’ve met a lot of people in life that haven’t accomplished much because they can’t seem to pick something and stick with it. They jump from idea to idea and never just take one idea and run. Others are more in love with the idea of working in some job instead of being in love with the actual work required from that type of job. That is a sure fire way to disappointment.

Ok so you’re depressed and can’t seem to snap out of it. What do you do? You set a routine and follow it no matter what. Regular exercise every day, eat healthy, go to bed at the same time each night and get up at the same time each day. In between these times, pick a path and run with it as best you can from day to day. There is always one more thing you can do….you just have to look for it.

i agree 100%.
you just motivated me to do something today. thanks
At the moment nothing. I should get up at 9am and study but I don’t. I have no motivation and I seriously need to find some fast.

I lie in bed until 4am thinking about what it would be like to cut my wrists or what it would be like to stab myself in the heart (seriously)…and then don’t get up till about 11am and piss away the rest of my day.

And no…I’m not emo, I don’t know what the fuck is wrong with me.

Since you asked

Cool…I’m glad it helped.

I once had a friend who was an Army Lieutenant and anytime I would complain about something being too difficult or I just didn’t see how I was going to get out of some rut I found myself in, he would always say, "Adjust and overcome". It’s something the Army drills into their heads and it’s a great saying.

Things don’t go the way you want them to, adjust and overcome. Got a huge mountain that you have to climb and you can’t find a way to get started, adjust and overcome. Have a set back on your journey, adjust and overcome. Have a death in the family, adjust and overcome.

It’s a great phrase and it’s helped me in sooooooo many ways though out life.

IMO what’s wrong with you is you’re not taking action in your life to solve the problems in your life. You’re thinking about what to do instead of doing it. Just take some action, however small, to start you on your way to solving your problem. IMO it doesn’t matter so much WHAT you do so long as you DO something.

Then if you want, either take another action or take a break for 10 minutes. Seriously only allow yourself 10 minutes before you take another action. Do this for one whole hour and see if you don’t feel better. You don’t always have to take a break but you can if you want to….but be hard on yourself and simply don’t allow yourself to take 15 minutes.

Once your hour is done….take the rest of the day off or keep doing things. It’s your choice but I would encourage you to at least try this for 1 hour only. Then if you want to spend more time doing things then go for 3-5 hours repeating the pattern……..unless you’re super motivated.

That’s very serious. When did this pattern begin? Do you notice other things that stand out to you in regards to your mental or physical health?

I will try that tomorrow. Thanks.

Only began recently. I have final exams in about 3 weeks time. When I say finals I mean the exams that decide 65% of my final grade, and I’ve done very very little work for them…even though I know I should be working for them.

I’ve told myself to do some serious work tomorrow though. I will let you all know how I fair though.

*sigh*
Do you know how many times I hear this?

Many people will respond with, "Tomorrow never comes" but I changed it up to better fit the reality I see and that is, "Tomorrow Always Comes…and it looks just like today".

Don’t wait….take action now!! Right this minute….why not do it immediately and change up the times. Don’t do it for 3-5 hours….only do it for 30 minutes….or only do 1 "cycle" of taking action for 10 minutes.

Don’t wait….if you are anything like me, you’ve said, "i’ll do it tomorrow" 11tybillion times and yet I still do NOT take action when the next day comes…why? Because something else comes up or I don’t feel good that day or whatever. It’s really all just one big excuse making machine to keep me stuck in the shit of my life.

Look you want to change your life you are going to have to do things differently. There isn’t some magic transformation that will occur between today and tomorrow. Look the other way….yesterday. What did you say that you would do today…yesterday? Are you doing those things today?? Prolly not. Why? Same thing….excuses.

Stop making excuses, stop delaying, stop putting things off till tomorrow. Take action today….RIGHT THIS MINUTE….for the next 10 minutes just do something to help you start solving 1 problem in your life. Don’t wait.

I looked over some past papers and did some tutorial questions for tomorrow which I planned to do tomorrow morning.

I got to pick my parents up from the airport now…please don’t shout at me .

Thanks dude.
I’m trying to find one too…let me know when you do.

I’m not shouting at you….I’m trying to help you help yourself. I’m trying to motivate you to not put something off till tomorrow. I’m trying to get you to take action right this minute….which I guess worked because you looked over some papers. Great!! Way to go man!!! You’re on your way.

Why was I so vocal?

Because this moment right now, is all we have. We’re so used to waking up everyday that we take tomorrow for granted. however, tomorrow isn’t promised to anyone. Not only that, each passing minute is simply another opportunity to turn our lives around. Change happens in moments that seem relatively normal and plain. There’s no fanfare, there’s no background music, there’s no slo-mo like we see in movies….it’s just another moment where we decide enough is enough and I’m going to take charge of my life.

When we string enough of these moments together over a long enough period of time, we start to make real and significant changes in our lives. However, when we postpone and delay and put things off till tomorrow, we are more likely to fall back into old patterns of delay.

That’s why I was being assertive with you. But you took action so I’m proud of you. Good job. I would hope that before you go to be you find 10 more minutes to devote to solving your problems.

Good luck and God Bless.

A lot of people are worse off than me physically and mentally. I’m able to think coherently and take care of myself. I never forget that others have lives that are more fucked up than mine and yet they are still productive members of society. Aside from that, I can’t imagine having to die without making a real difference in the world.

It sounds stereotypical and shit, but it is how it is

What? I’m sorry I don’t have the same motivations in my life as you.

ditto x 2

i think that according to iwywb, she fought tooth and nail for the rewards in her life.

You don’t have to apologize to me, it just makes me sad that you feel that way.
right now I’m just killing time until my motor is back from the machine shop so I can triple the power in my miata. I have other goals, but right now I’m kind of tired of my life and would rather just put together a scary fast miata. Over the summer I plan to get a grasp on my career and really get my life moving by owning my own business.
Got up at 9am today. Studied a tiny bit in teh morning, went into uni for a tutorial which last for 3 damn hours…

Now I am studying for a PhD interview tomorrow
I’d rather not get up. There was awhile where I would stay in bed all day. My back ended up atrophying a bit which was embarrassing because I’m supposed to be known as the strong back guy. So my motivation for getting up now is to keep my back (and other parts of my body) strong. See you can’t imagine how content you can be until you lower your expectations so low that every little thing in life becomes so awesome and accomplishing.
i get up everyday and go to a job that i love working at. i look forward to th paycheck that lets me spend money on the things i love in love in life…family, friends, girlfriend, exercise , alcohol and high quality food.

Payday always makes getting up worth it

You gave me the cool ugh.

She’s cool with what you said — because she has no choice but to accept it, but still thinks from her point of view you could be making better choices or doing it differently.
Knowing that it’s all out there and that I just have to find a way to get it
Short and simple for me, I got up today to see tomorrow. I could go through a list of things to give some sort of materialistic value to it, but it’s not about that.
my reason for getting up is three years old. the other is 16. My boys confirm anything in me that has ever been good. some days are harder to get up but every day you do it is going to be one more day you were in control and didn’t have to try to force it to happen. just keep trying. some days are bad but they aren’t always bad. some are worth stickin around for. just keep trying to remember that.
I have some of the same depression "I should just drive my car off a bridge" kind of days but I always try to focus on the times where I say thank God I didn’t. I’m a sports junky so my reason for waking up is to see the scores and check the stats from the night before. Keep living and find your passions. That’s my advise..if anyone wanted it .
I get up every morning becuase i know that right now i am the only person (aside from my mother) who is there to help my dad through the last days of his life. And i know im teh only person hes got throughout the day. Even if he hates me, or doesnt like the fact that he is essentially locked in teh house with me. Its what ive got to do.

Plus i wake up every day waiting for my friend Emily to call me and tell me shes thinking of me, and that she loves me, and hopes i feel better tomorow. Shame she says she will only ever love me as a friend. Dont know what i will do when she finally starts seeing somone.

I also stop and think that i cant be selfish, becuase i cant put my mother through the pain of not only losing her husband, but losing me too. Its not fair to her. So i push on, if for no other reason to help keep those around me happy.

Just hurts when they dont realize im not happy, and things arent right.
Guess that jsut comes as part of being a giver. Its more take, then reciprocate.

Dunno how it will be a couple years from now once Dad and Emily are gone.
i really don’t know anymore. my life pretty much sucks now. i’m not suicidal but at the same time its like why give a f*&%k anymore. I find myself running more and more..which is what i do when i’m upset and sad or depressed. I put my headphones on and run. I mean my grades are going down the drain, this girl i was talking to won’t even look at me anymore, I’m not the best at anything. it makes me like BLAH sometimes.

i agree. sports keep my mind off of everything. my worries and stuff. i think thats why i’m so obsessed with them

You don’t have to be the best to enjoy doing what you do. You just have to stop seeing those who piss on your efforts as somehow being entitled to do so*. Just like you, they’re all going to die someday, no matter how fantastic they are at life, so their opinion is worth the paper it’s printed on.

I woke up this morning after an extensive night out in my friend’s apartment to reply to a text. I walked outside to drive home and got a big whiff of flowery goodness. I realized it was a perfect day to spend riding around on my bike… so that’s what I did for a good 3 or 4 hours. Plus it was the Earth Day Festival, so there were tons of people downtown.

My only qualm was that I couldn’t find anyone to share it with. My friends had shit to do all day, and I was not about to hassle my dating prospects. They need a little break from me.
By th end of this year, I set my goal in opening an event planning company. And I wake up everyday to prepare myself (learn as much as I can) for this day.

So yea, do like I do (and what most people do). Set goals in your life that you really want to achieve. By doing that, not only will you look forward to it, but you’ll work hard to achieve it everyday.

And that’s priceless.
My younger brother and sister. They depend on me, so I have to keep going to be there for them. They’re the only relationships that I have that are the most important to me.

thanks. i think thats what i gotta do now. just enjoy it. oh. and it does really help to know they will die too….eventually
My partner whom I live with, the chosen family I have amassed, personal goals and dreams, knowing that sometimes happiness takes a lot of work and it’s better to fight for the things I dream of, or appreciate instead of letting the hoplessness I felt as a teen take over.

Until you look at your credit card statment.
wake up to go to work on my work days, on off days cos i have enough sleep or errands to run
The fact that there are opportunities out there waiting for me to find them
because life is beautiful and i never know what adventures are just around the corner

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Why is it a competition? Something that’s important to you is probably fucked up. This is really important to me because its been a problem for my all my life, and its only getting worse. Sure its just women, but the sole reason I’m here is because some guy was good enough to bang some chick and forgot to pull out and bam, black jesus was born. I won’t ever have the chance to experience love or whatever again, I think that’s fairly important. Think about being socially mute, its like everything around me is a prop, not real, a game, and for some reason I can’t manipulate them the way I’m supposed to.

I did not mean to make it a competition and yes its important to me because I have also been having trouble with this all my life.

This is not true, find a therapist. If you cant afford one go through the county health services. You wont regret it.

I’ve been through this. I make too much money for the sliding scale. I make decent money, but they don’t have a mechanism that compensates for my $861 student loan payment that royally fucks my life.
I’d say it has less to do with maturity and emotional development, and much more to do with self-esteem issues.

I’d be excited to hear about your successful/failed social interactions you have. What I mean is you could keep a log of every social interaction that you care about, and afterwards, write down how you think it went.

I did this while I was in therapy, and although I spent hours telling my therapist how confident I was, she could easily point out a ton of sentences I would write down that actually showed a deep insecurity that even I didn’t realize I had.

This way, we could hear your thoughts at the time and help you realize your self-defeating thoughts. Every time you make a thread, it’s probably just a summary of a million thoughts you’ve had recently. These types of problems are better cured from the root.

It’s just a suggestion. Perhaps you could start up a thread and just post it in whenever you want.

As I’ve said before, I just really don’t want to see you fall into the trap of taking advice and forgetting it once you’re out in social interactions.

excuses = rationalization

you work hard enough and you can find one

everyone here is pretty much tired of hearing about whatever my problems are.

I might start writing all that shit down…but at this point I’ve pretty much cut off interacting with people all together. I’ve effectively given up, again. I guess I’ll wait another 8-years and maybe the pattern will continue.

well, you can also look at motherfucking reality. I don’t understand what the fuck why everyone thinks this is so simple. My options are to either not pay rent or not pay my student loan. $436 per month is a large chunk of money for me. I don’t see what’s so difficult about I DON’T MAKE THAT MUCH MONEY PER MONTH!!!!!oneoneone

64,997 posts I think your interacting enough.

Have you thought of calling the loans office to see if they can provide you with a "grace" period?

nothing about reality is simple, Good luck.

forums are my only real communication with people, aside from that I just sit around my apartment or go out alone and make an ass of myself.

The grace period is not an option. I could go back on deferment but all that interest compounds monthly and my payments keep going up and up. The way it sits now, after all my bills (I’m not talking about cable TV or shit like that) I have $288 to buy gasoline and food with.

This post alone is a perfect example of why a journal would help you.

You have no idea if people are tired of hearing what your problems are. You can’t assume to know what people think. When observing another person’s words or actions, people with depression/anxiety assume to know much more than they actually do know.

Your self-defeating thought here on this board tell me that you probably constantly have the same self-defeating thoughts in social situations too. "She probably has a boyfriend," or "She probably wouldn’t like me," or "That date went terrible! She won’t want to see me again."

You would be completely surprised if you knew what people actually thought. Most people have the same insecurities as you, just on a larger or smaller scale.

You could say "I have a feeling that people on this message board are getting tired of hearing my problems." That would be an opinion, and you would subconsciously accept it. However, when you state it as a fact, as you did, you subconsciously accept it as a fact. If you were talking to a girl and said to yourself "She isn’t interested in me," then the battle is over. You have already lost. A fact is a fact.

The world isn’t always as you think it is. I freaking love Star Wars, so I’ll quote Qui-Gon Jinn and say "Your focus determines your reality." Stop focusing on the "facts."

I disagree. I know I’m not exactly intelligent, far from it. I sure as hell wouldn’t assume my muddied opinions of my experiences were more accurate than an opinion of someone who is capable of maintaining relationships and has a successful social life.

I’m not exactly the most intelligent person, if I were I’d probably be making more money, have more friends, and not be in this thread right now. I respect everyone’s advice here.

I’m so worried every time I speak to anyone, but especially with women who are high in demand and where I have tons and tons of competition from people who look better, are taller, more "pumped", better cloths, better hair, more intelligent, more conversational. I don’t want to annoy people. I don’t want to be the weird guy who won’t go away. Until I spend some more time in the gym, get better cars, buy a house, and do a bunch of other shit, I’m not going to do well with women.

You’re approaching it like they have to approve of you. Something to keep in mind:

They already know the kind of man they like, and you’re already the kind of man you are, so they already know whether they like you or not, they just never had to think about it before. All you’re doing is finding it out; all the prep work happened over the course of the past 27 years, there’s nothing you can do now, so just let the chips fall where they may.

I typically approach it thinking, "I hope I know what to do so the don’t figure out that I’m a miserable fuck."

I know its futile and I have to "let the chips fall," but I really am tired of spending all my time alone. It gets so old. I’m so fucking lonely.

Social interaction is just like anything else: it can be improved with practice.

He can develop more confidence and self-esteem and absolutely be the type of man most girls want. He isn’t "stuck" with what he has.

100% of his failures are in is head, caused by catastrophic and self-defeating thoughts. Some people do get better, and he is obviously intelligent enough to be one of those who overcome the problems, whether or not he will admit it.

There is something he can do about it, and he can start right now.
That’s the wrong approach, Socrates. I agree that superficial stuff can be improved, but on the whole, it’s safe to assume he’s the person he wants to be because he likes being that person, so he will always default back to who he "really is" when it comes to important issues. So it’s better not to present a facade that makes him look like someone he isn’t, only to get into one potentially-successful relationship after another that fails because he was lying about who he is.

Seriously, if he just accepts that he is who he is and she likes who she likes and there’s no changing either one, it becomes a hell of a lot easier to get rejected, because you didn’t do anything wrong, you just didn’t match up at all and so it wouldn’t have been worth the effort to try anyway.

I prefer to apologize (humorously!) for having no game whatsoever. Surprisingly, they usually relax a lot when I say that, because it means they don’t have to try to read between my lines to decipher meanings that aren’t really there.

One thing women will never forgive is a guy who thinks he’s a miserable fuck. You’re not a miserable fuck, you’re just weird. Of course, if you’ve based your entire life on the notion that you should be like other people, then yes, I suppose you are a miserable fuck — but those people whom you have let dictate the standards of your life are going to die too, no matter how fantastic they are at being cool, so their opinions really aren’t worth more than your own.

Unless you’re drunk, stoned, half-naked, and living in a cardboard box in an alley, your approach on life has clearly met with some success. So you don’t need to continue wondering whether you’re "doing it right". The only right way is the way that works, and there are lots of ways that work. Yours is, presumably, one of them.

If you enter into an interaction with a woman confident in the fact that your personal history proves you’re not a complete failure, and that you and she are both the way you are because you like being that way, then it becomes a lot easier to get rejected over and over until you find someone who likes your worldview, because, as I said, you didn’t do anything wrong in the first place.

I’ve been reading some self-help on becoming alpha, and taking control of my life…but I keep fucking failing every god damn time.

It really hit hard to when I was going to a club, which I really didn’t want to go to, with some friends on saturday. There were 5 chicks my 4 friends picked up at another bar, so when we went to another bar that doesn’t let single guys in unless they drive maseratis. My buddies couldn’t even convince this girl to tell the bouncer that she was with me so I could get in the club. She couldn’t fucking bring herself to slum it and just for an instant tell a random person that she was associated with me.

This is what I don’t get. I don’t understand what’s wrong with me. My old roommate and her husband agree that they’re perplexed and don’t know what my fucking problem is. At this point I’ve pretty much made up my mind that I’m done trying socially. I have to accept that whatever the ailment is, I won’t understand it or be able to do anything about it. I will be alone for the rest of my life. There is no getting out of this, its the way it works.

I’m like one of those guys who weighs 140lb, and has to go to an adult arcade to experience women. I’m the guy who doesn’t know his neighbors because he never goes in or out of the house to meet them, and its a good thing he doesn’t because then they’d be creeped out and move. How the fuck did I become the scary rapist guy who sweats and has bad hygine? I’m like Kip from Napoleon Dynamite. Its kinda sad. I’ve been driving the track car because my daily driver is broken. I only have the driver’s seat in, and for the last 2 weeks, this hasn’t been a problem…lol.

He can’t accept who he is, because that is the whole problem from the beginning. The underlying source or problems with people of low self-esteem is because they don’t have the "I’m okay with being me," mindset. Instead, they think "I should be this type of guy so others will accept me." If Black Jesus could simply say "I’m all right with who I am!", then he wouldn’t have any of these problems. He wouldn’t feel he has to have nice things in order for women to like him.

When you say "it’s safe to assume he’s the person he wants to be because he likes being that person," I see a very different picture. Does Black Jesus seem like he likes himself? Do depressed people ever really like themselves?

I’m not saying he should try to change his personality, his beliefs, or any of the things he likes. I don’t mean to make it sound like I want him to create a facade of who he is. I’m not talking about Pick-Up Artist stuff and lying about who you are or any lying whatsoever. I’m simply saying he should try to recognize these self-defeating thoughts and beliefs, and change them. Those are very possible to change.

I agree. I’m not alright with who I am, I do not want to be me. Me sucks. No one wants to be around me, especially women. Women have always fucked with "me."

I realize that I’m incredibly negative. We had a new employee in the office that told me last week, "what happened man? I’ve been here like 4 months and I’ve never met anyone so consistently negative all the time. At first I thought it was funny, then I thought you were looking for attention, but now I wonder if someone in your family died."

I had a really good week when I went on a vacation with a random girl back in January. It was awesome. I’ve been motivated to speak to women since then because I want to feel like that again. I couldn’t remember what it was like because I haven’t had a date January, 2000. Now I feel like a Heroine addiction every time I talk to a girl and she instantaneously shits on me.

Yes, that was a bitch move on her part. However, that was just her, and plenty of other cute girls would have helped you out.

However, it sounds like you didn’t know this girl. It’s not like she was a really good friend and did this to you. How can you take it so personal when she doesn’t know anything about you?

The only thing that really means is two things: 1) She is a bitch, and 2) You aren’t good looking enough to get beautiful girls interested in you by looks alone. Fortunately, 99% of men out there aren’t good looking enough to get women interested in them based on looks alone. As you already said you are doing, keep going to the gym and improve yourself as much as possible.

There isn’t really anything I can say to give you the courage keep going back out there and trying again. If Abraham Lincoln gave up as easily as you, I’d probably have someone here to make my lunch for me right now.
That just makes it sound even more like you need approval from everyone.

I already told you, if you’re making money and you’re not getting thrown in jail every weekend and you’re not strung-out all the time, then your take on life is valid. So stop feeling like it isn’t.

- – -

You know what I did to break free from needing validation? I lived all by myself for months, didn’t see anyone, rarely called anyone on the phone, and wrestled with why nobody ever wanted to pro-actively show an interest in me. Eventually I just concluded that it’s because I wasn’t giving them any reason to notice me. I don’t deserve attention, there’s six billion people out there for other people to look at. You gotta do your own thing, preferably in public, and try to attract attention that way. Nobody’s going to pro-actively want to notice you and think you’re cool and go out with you. You have to show that you’re worth paying attention to, by doing something that catches their eye. And if nothing you do is that sort of thing, then at least enjoy doing it by yourself.

To tell you the truth, socialites are all alone too, because they’re all only pretending to pay attention to each other so others will pay attention to them. It’s all a game.

hahahahaha, that’s fucking great. I’m going to use that.

After my ex and I split up in January, I spent the next couple of months sitting at home wondering why my social life sucked. Sometimes I thought "I must not be the exciting guy I once was, or once thought I was."

However, I started calling friends more and more and getting invited to parties. Most the times, the people at these parties would love me and want to hang out again.

Had I not made the phone calls to hang out, I wouldn’t have realized that I was an amiable guy and people really enjoyed hanging out with me.

I agree with you, but if there’s 6B people out there, and 1/100 have the qualities desire by other people, then shouldn’t I adjust my desired goals to something realistic like solitude.

I guess if anything I can discuss this here, and not really worry about people flipping out. I’ve been thinking about suicide again, but not like everyone else does. I don’t want to kill myself, its kinda like I should. Does this make sense. I want to succeed at this and have friends but more importantly, I want a woman in my life. I’m not talking about a wife or GF for me to drive crazy with neediness, I want to be able to go out with a girl, or have a girl come over once a month or so. That’s not an option though, and I’m tired of living like this where I constantly feel like I’m fucked up. Its not normal to be totally unable to attract women. I don’t want to give up, I want to have a desire to win at this. But logic is telling me to stop attempting because my success record is so poor. Its like death is the most intelligent option for me, it will stop all the shit-emotions I’m tired of, but I don’t want to quit, I want to feel something again. Is that totally absurd? I should kill myself, but I don’t want to. You’ll probably never hear that again.

My buddies are going on another trip to the wine country at the end of this year, and I want to go, but I’m not going alone. That’s 6-months away, basically I have 5 months to find a girl that I want to take with me. I want to be happy like I was on that trip to the Wine Country. I forgot what it was like to feel like that. I really did. Now it haunts me.
You know, I think you’re a pretty cool dude.. But damn bro, it’s like you solve your issues then resort right back to the same ones.

Practice what you do when you’re happy / fulfilled more often, the outcome won’t always be so negative.

I’m not trolling but I seriously LOL’d when I read this… just the way you wrote it made it funny.

But, that is the only reason why any of us are here. Being a planned baby or unplanned doesn’t define who you are… you define who you are.

I can relate to you more than you know… I am 27 and have only had 1 girlfriend in my life which was back in high school in 1999. I have been working on changing my life though.

First you need to change your way of thinking. You sound like a negative nancy, and no one likes to hang out with negative nancy’s. Becoming more positive about things will help change your mentality.

Secondly stop putting the pussy on a pedestal. If you go into interactions with women thinking you’re inferior to them they will sense this and you will have no chance to spark attraction. Alpha males never see themselves as inferior and all the alpha males I know have stuck their dicks into a lot of pussy.

What hobbies do you have? Do you workout at the gym? Lift weights and cardio training? Can you play the guitar? Have you thought about learning martial arts? I have been going to martial arts class for a few years now and it has boosted my confidence in all social situations. I even go to the gym and lift weights and jog/bike. Working out releases endorphins that give you a natural high. When I was a kid I was the happiest I have ever been and realized it was because I ran or rode my bike everywhere. Kids nowadays sit inside playing video games and don’t get much exercise and they are all emo and depressed.

If you like music, you should learn to play the guitar. Take leasons, it will give you something to do on a week night or weekend. I had a chubby friend that loves playing music and was in band in school and played other instruments but started learning to play the guitar teaching himself. It was amazing when he would bust out the guitar at parties and start playing and the girls at the party would flock around him with thier pussys swooning. You could see the wet spot thru their pants He could have had sex with a lot of those girls but he was the ‘nice guy’ type so he would never hook up with them.

Start living your life doing things you want to do. You will become a happier person and a more interesting person. Also look into some books and publications on improving your social skills. There are many out there. Also keep in mind that some pickup artists teach some things that can also improve your social skills. Sometimes when trying to meet women you may have to open a group of girls or a group with girls and guys mixed. Knowing how to open a set can help improve your confidence.

my conception comment was not about planner pregnancy, it was about having the ability to make that happen, women choosing men to sleep with.

I don’t just put women on a pedestal, I consider myself substandard. I’m the worst at everything I do. I may be 5′11" 194lb at 12%, but I still feel like Urkel. I have the worst physical aspect in every category, worst car, worst apartment, worst furniture, worst opinions, and everything else. Its like limited # of friends to me a favor by hanging out with the retarded kid who nobody likes.

There have been 2 nights in particular where I could really hook with women. I can open just fine, I just can’t get over the logic that I’m totally random, they know what I’m doing, and why would they want to talk to me when I have the least to offer of any guy in that room? I don’t see why any of these women want me to interrupt them and speak.

It’s most likely a lack of development.

My problem stemmed from my childhood. 2 things were wrong when I was a kid. First I was cute as hell when I was a kid. I got compliments from everyone, and I had girls chasing me around all the time. I never had to work for attention from girls it just always came to me. Then when I hit puberty, I got hit with the ‘fuck your good looks up stick’. I wasn’t the cutest kid anymore and when you get into middle school and high school, everyone’s social skills start to develop and you can’t get by on good looks anymore unless you are a hot girl with big tits and a nice ass.

Then when I was in middle school and high school, my parents were extremely religious, and they were scared that any interaction I had with a girl would lead to me getting some girl pregnant. So they suffocated me and never allowed me to go to parties, dances, or other places where you develop social skills at a young age. I couldn’t even have a girlfriend and when I got my first girlfriend in my senior year of high school all hell broke loose and my parents hated it.

So I was never able to develop the correct social skills to interact with women. I can hang out with guy friends and socialize just fine, but when a woman is near by my mind goes blank and I don’t know what to talk about. Maybe your situation is the same.

We can only work on improving our social prowess, and keep our heads up that we still have our 30’s ahead of us. Just remember women love older guys for various reasons. You probably have seen many guys in there 30’s dating young hot big breasted women in their early to mid 20’s. I know I have seen my share. So at least I have something to try and achieve when I hit my 30’s.

You gotta try to adopt the winners mentality. When you see sports reporters interviewing athletes before a big game and they ask the athlete who is going to win they always say they or their team will win. If they said that they are probably going to lose, they will never win.

You do have the ability to make anything happen. You do have many things you can offer women. Women do want to talk with you.

Think like a loser and you’ll be a loser.
Think like a winner and you’ll be a winner.

why? I don’t see why any woman would want me, some random loser, talking to them. Even if I weren’t a random loser and were just "average", they still wouldn’t want me speaking to them. I don’t know what any woman would want from me that I could give her.

I’m never tired of your posts because you write them very, very well.

It was uplifting when you were happy because you’re usually so unhappy, but to be honest, I like the posts when you’re up as well as when you’re down… it’s always good stuff.

I think the main thing is that your thoughts always make a lot of sense to me. There is something about the way you describe the things in your life – be they happy or sad – that hits home.

Your humor, insights, ideas, advice, compliments, reality-checks, listening skills, etc etc etc.

You’re an intelligent human being with ideas and views that perhaps could intrigue many women. If you can make a girl laugh and feel good, you need not much else to offer.

every guy has that shit though. I know I’m whining like a faggot at this point, but there is no reason any woman is going to want standard options which you listed for me, when she could have some guy who is ultimately superior. There is no point in even trying to start this game if I’m not the best available.

I know that’s probably going to piss a lot of people off, but why should I even talk to these women if ultimately they are just going to use me as a placeholder until some guy with bigger arms, better hair, a better car, more entertaining perspective, or whatever comes by? It might happen in the first 5 minutes I’m talking to them, or it will happen after we’ve been married 5-years. Either way they’re not going to be happy with what they have even if they are so inclined to use me to entertain them for the meantime.

Just like the last girl. We were together like a month, I thought I played all my cards right…then, before I had a chance to fuck it up, she upgraded and I never heard from her again. Not a single fucking word. I don’t want to fucking deal with that again. It happens like that all the time. Its no that I did poorly, fucked up, was mean, or lacked entertaining qualities, I just wasn’t good enough and never had the type of relationship which warranted a response. I don’t even have enough worth as a human being to get a fucking phone call letting me know its over, "no date tonight or ever, I found something better, and it wasn’t difficult because you’re slightly below average and pretty much any guy who shows up will do better than you."

This is called "projecting thoughts on to others" and if you continue to do this you will never change. Everyone is is a loser and average, its just how you display yourself. Believe it or not there are other people out there like you including a SO or two if you look hard enough.

that was the craziest for me. I haven’t been happy like that in at least 8-years, if ever. Its like for a moment, life wasn’t in a dungeon. I enjoyed some things. Its like a got a glimpse of something I wasn’t supposed to see, because now its something I want to replicate but I’m incapable, so it makes me miserable.

you’re right, but you could still get a 10.

a girl’s interest in you has nothing to do with "qualities". it’s like playing basketball or riding a back or, most accurately, like learning a video game. when you miss the hoop it has nothing to do with who you are as a human being. it has to do with how you handled the ball! you don’t quit a video game when you lose. you lose 10 times until you get the general movement down.

since your inner game is so incredibly, horribly fucked, why don’t you just focus on outer game? it’s a skill set, you can learn it. yeah, you’re a miserable wretch and you suck in every way and so on, or whatever else fucked up shit your mind is making you believe right now. but fortunately, attracting women is something you DO, after practicing; not something you are.

POSITIVE outer game only. there’s a website for that, which I can link you to, not the one I PM’ed you, but a different one.

This is false, get it out of your head and the first step is over.

the pattern over the past 8 years is irrefutable.

You have to allow yourself to change or you will keep going in circles.

but how do I change the most basic part of my life? Everything I do, every day, is based upon the reality that everything comes to an end, and everything I enjoy will soon go away and I’ll be left with nothing. How do I change that learned behavior with the contrary, and somehow create an ideological shift that will actually take?

Therapy.

Contrary to what’s been said, I think you’re setting yourself up for failure by completely ignoring your "inner game" and only focusing on "outer game."

Yes, if you went out and just started approaching a crap ton of women a day, or better yet, took the "stylelife" challenge and did Style’s "Get a Date in 30 Days" thing, your confidence absolutely would go up. It is very possible that after many attempts, you would have some success and your confidence would skyrocket. That is a solution.

However, because of your depressive tendencies, you seem to focus on the negative stuff and rarely on the positive. That means, you could go on 5 great dates, then have 1 bad date, and you would be tore up over that bad date wondering "why the fuck didn’t she like me?" I’ve been through the whole "PUA" trip that most of vaginarium is still going through. I read "The Game" way before 99% of those guys. I used to talk to a ton of those guys through PM’s, and the reason you don’t see me post in there much more is because many of them are keyboard jockies who are deeply insecure. Once you become confident in who you are and your game, trading tips and ideas on how to pick up girls seems less appealing. I spend my free evenings out socializing, not reading about socializing. The reality is that not all dates are going to go awesome, and you’re going to get rejected a lot. Because of your focusing on the negative, only focusing on your "outer game" could be even more disastrous to your self-esteem. From what I know about you, that one rejection would fuck you up and you would have a huge set back.

I think it would be much more beneficial to you to find a way to get therapy, whether it be paying a therapist or even finding some free therapy group. A therapist can really help you realize how your mind is your worst enemy and stop you from thinking these negative thoughts. However, if you still want to read the PUA stuff, I don’t think that is a bad idea. It helped me out a lot and I did get 500% better with women because of it. However, therapy helped me out in ways that David DeAngelou couldn’t. All the openings in the world couldn’t fix the insecurities I developed because of my absent father and emotionally-wrecked mother. But, when it becomes something you’re talking more about and not doing, like much of the vaginarium it seems, it can be a problem.
I just went to the gym and totally flipped out. I couldn’t get find the playlist I wanted in the mp3 player, so I smashed that pos. Then I got even more pissed off because my shoulder hurts, so i just left. One of my cars is broken, the other has fucked up exhaust, its horribly uncomfortable, and I’m tired of all this shit and its making me fucking insane. Everything is compounding right now: girls, subaru, miata, student loans, travel for work, not wanting to work out but making myself, the insurance company not returning phone calls, women blowing me off, being fucking lonely, not having enough money…its all hitting me in the balls right now. I really don’t want to live like this anymore. I think I’m going to get drunk.

WTF do I do now? I have this fucking insane level of anger right now, almost safe to say that I’ve never been angry like this before. I really want to hit more stuff, burn the fucking place down, jump off a building, fucking something. I need to release all this anger and have no fucking clue how to do it.
Get hammered or something man! That’s always a good way to calm down after a bad day. That’s what I’ll be doing in about two hours at the bowling alley with some friends!

I feel like that every fucking moment of my life. It’s gotten to the point where i constantly ask people who I have somewhat of a connection with "in your honest opinion do you think I’m annoying" they usually tell me no but then I say something like "you can be completely honest with me, you won’t hurt my feelings" then they usually tell me that if i keep asking them that question then I’ll start to become annoying. I don’t know I don’t find it hard putting myself out there and making friend, but I do find it hard keeping friends because I feel like I’m bothering people when I try to reach out. I hate feeling like this but every time I try to make steps to change this I get the same shitty feeling that I’m bothering people and I tend to just lose touch.

It’s because he’s working it out logically, but not applying it to his real life.

Good. You’re finally getting to the point where you have the necessary drive to do something about it.

I got angry too. And I spent about a month drunk whenever I had free time. It’s all part of the grieving process.

Just roll with the punches man. We’ve all had shitty conversations/meet-ups with chicks and knew we blew it, no need to act like she would’ve been the one had we done it right.

Just be yourself because one day down the road you’re going to have to be, and better for it to never be than for her to realize she liked you for all the wrong reasons.

If you’re having issues with conversation, just talk to pretty much everyone you come into contact with, just a brief conversation and try to find things to ask other than "what’s up?" "how you been?" and "gee, would you look at that weather." Notice things about chicks, their shoes, hair style, whatever… mention something about it, or make a joke, ask a question.. just make conversation with as many different people as possible
I’m still wigged out angry. I’m going to take this week off from the gym…I went in there last night and I was just too insane to lift.

to cap things off, a dipshit in an a8 decided to cut me off bad, then brake check me, then swerve over into my lane almost running me off the road, then point and laugh at my car. I tried to get him to pull over so I could shoot him, but I had no luck.
I really, really, really have a powerful desire to scrounge up some money, pack all my shit up, and move after finding a job in northern California. I feel static and there are too many negative experiences here that I want to leave behind.

If that’s what you really want to do, go for it! Maybe new faces and new experiences would be good for you. But, you’ve got to get in a new mindframe to truly be at a better place. If you’re going to move, that’s awesome but you have to leave all the mental crap behind. If you don’t change your outlook on things it doesn’t matter how far you move, because it will be the same pattern.
Here’s something I’m translating only for you from a book on self-esteem in French :
People with a high self-esteem react emotionally in front of a failure but it doesn’t leave an emotional scar. They can face critics on sensitive issues or contradict them, they don’t really try to find out negative things about themselves (while those with low self-esteem or LSE do), they don’t feel that they have to justify themselves after a failure and think that many others would have failed too, they don’t feel rejected if criticized and have low evaluation anxiety. Success confirms their self-perception (instead of changing it like for LSE people) and they don’t think much about not being able to meet the standards or that success won’t last. They are excellent in certain specific domains and accept some weaknesses in exchange for this while LSE people prefer not to have any weakpoint and to be medium overall.

(Note that low self-esteem is the contrary on pretty much all points.)

Advantages = resilience and being able to face adversity (while low self-esteem can motivate to succeed and being able to listen to critics)
Disadvantages = can avoid listening to critics (while low self-esteem leads to suffering and anxiety).

Just some food for thought, gotta go study for now…

The difference between people who succeed with women and those who do not is not the rate of failure. It’s just that successful guys try and try again without making much of an issue of a rejection.

Failure can push some people to disengage from their goal (an extreme sensitivity of their behavioral inhibition system does this, it’s not ALL bad, it can be quite adaptative at times) while other will try harder (sensitivity of the behavioral approach system).
I really want to succeed, but everything I’ve experienced just in the past two weeks tells me to reevaluate my expectations. I want to shift my thoughts and be successful, I really do. However I can’t seem to make it stick.
God man you’re a fucking mess. I seen pictures of you before, you look great. You’re fairly tall, lean and muscular and you got HAIR, which I don’t.

Weren’t you living out of your car a few years ago? You had the drive to change you situation then. You have a lot going for you but you fail to see any of it.

yeah, I lived in the jetta for about 6 weeks, crashing at a few friend’s places, and showering at the university gym. I’m 5′11", 192lb, and about 13% after that bottle of wine last night. I can handle financial survival just fine…well, kinda, but I don’t know what to do about the intellectually growing and being sociable. I’m getting old, and I really want to get control of this so I can still enjoy my life.

lol that’s the truth. My old roommate does that… we all give him shit for it, especially when he flubs it up, but I know he’s the only one pulling a semi-regular stream of ass.

ok.

so you’re saying after you got successful with women, you finally patched up your inner game. because of therapy or whatever. but notice the order of events.

and socrates, i remember you going on ad nauseum about dating and i never thought your advice was particularly insightful. most of it was a play on the "hard-to-get" cliche. "show her your independence," and whatnot, which is rooted in insecurity, and fear, and an unhealthy obsession with the worst social aspects of human beings.

the advice you gave that was really disastrous was your application of game to questions of romance. ugh

the copious amount of ladiez advice you gave says more about how much you like to be an authority on the ladiez than anything else. and yeah, lots of guys talk the talk but don’t walk the walk, but i think you’re projecting that onto the vag… not everyone there is like that.

bj, I agree with socrates that you should see a therapist if you have the financial means. if you don’t have the financial means, then fuck inner game. think about it, attempting to fix your mental state yourself, that would be trying to fix your disfunctioning brain with that same disfunctioning brain, fixing an infected computer with an infected program. good luck

i think everyone is different, but from personal experience, drive can overcome inner game issues, and focusing on outer game forces the mind away from all the messed up thoughts that it feeds itself. why not learn that, in the meantime, seeing as your inner game is so royally fucked right now.
You just sit here and whine about that no woman would want to speak with you.

Why don’t you stop being such a baby and go transform yourself into someone they would want to talk to.
No one here will have a magic key for you that will solve your problems. Start taking responsibility for yourself.

I was able to get laid, yes, but I still felt insecure about who I was. Once I finally found a girl I liked and we became a couple, it became disastrous because my insecurities really started to show.

I became good at dating, which I think most people would after practicing the PUA stuff, but most PUAs have the ultimate goal of finding a girl to share their life with. Just because someone can be good at dating doesn’t mean they can have a healthy relationship. All the dating in the world won’t help a guy feel secure with a woman when all he has known his whole life is abandonment.

The advice I gave was stuff that I read about in PUA stuff, and then went out and applied in real life. I could care less if you thought my advice was insightful or not. I received a lot of PM’s from people asking for advice, and I was happy to give it. I can’t expect to please everybody, especially someone with an ego like yours who likes to confront people at every possible chance. You haven’t liked me since you tried to confront my English abilities, so I can imagine the preconceived negative attitude you already have of me even before you read my posts. Hence the fact that you’re attacking my old dating advice, which has nothing to do with what we are talking about right now. As soon as you get defensive, the good grammar and big words start coming out.

I made it a point to separate game from romance. I even openly admitted "I don’t know much about relationships." Now you’re just lying and attacking me.

What? Where is the logic in that?

Being bad with women made me depressed throughout high school, and I found ways to help me get better. I was extremely interested in the subject, and I liked talking about it. Some of the questions people were asking were situations I had been through, so I offered my advice. How can you possibly make the connection that me giving advice relates to my attitude towards women?

Do you want to know why I have the opinion I do of the vaginarium? It’s because many of the guys who seem to be the "authority" on dating advice in there are the same guys who were just messaging me months ago telling me how their dating lives suck and wanted to talk to me about it. I’m not saying the whole vaginarium is like that of course, but there are many.

If I knew what I was supposed to transform into, and knew how to do that, I would. Jesus fuck I’d love to do that.
Socrates, being in a relationship is what reveals insecurities of that nature; not seeing a shrink.

The disaster of my first experience with love is what made me capable of my current experience.

Btw, I guess I confused your romantic advice with Viper’s or someone else’s. Are you sure you never applied pick-up advice to romance?

I agree that my relationship revealed the insecurities. But, I wasn’t smart enough to understand it or know what to do about it. I was always confused because I would tell myself "I thought I was good with women….what the hell is the matter with me."

My first serious relationship was ruined because of my insecurities while I was deployed, and my second relationship was ruined was because I was so terrified it would happen again that I wasn’t able to get close to anyone.

I feel that I’m ready now, and the next relationship will go much better.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that you’re right; my relationships did reveal my insecurities. However, my shrink gave me the tools I needed to overcome them. I still have an emptiness because of my childhood, but I’m actually able to enjoy my day now and be happy.

edit: To be honest, I don’t remember 90% of the advice I used to give, but I do remember being adamant about not giving serious relationship advice. Unless I came in drunk one night and felt like an expert on relationships, I don’t think I would have given that advice.

Yeah I’d be asking for my drinks to be "shaken, not stirred" if we could transform into whoever we want to be!

What are you doing to find out?

reading, follow advice, and going through the motions with a fake smile.
and yet many guys who are less physically attractive and less successful professionally can talk to women with no problems and have their pick of women to date
and don’t turn to alcohol, or you may well have to add a drinking problem to your list of woes

i’ve done this, and lost the pleasure of casual drinking as a result

Try. Fail. Observe the successful person who jumps into the hole left by your failure. Learn from it. Repeat as necessary.

I’m not a bar kinda guy, but the huge advantage to bars is that they’re chock-full of people who don’t give a shit about you, so you can totally fuck up and nobody will remember the next time you stop in for a practice session. Eventually, you’ll learn how to keep their attention on you despite all the other distractions, and at that point, you can stop going to bars and start going to places with people you actually want to be around without worrying about making a fool of yourself.

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