Its like sometimes I’ll have times when I’m afraid to talk to anyone because they will judge me and even when I force myself to talk to them I feel as if I’m not myself. I’ll sometimes be afraid to talk to my own parents because they will judge me or I won’t be up to their standards. Ive felt like this all day and I force my self to talk to people when my mind is telling me to just say "Go the fuck away I can’t talk to you right now because my mind is not in the right place and you are going to think I’m boring or weird". I will avoid my phone for days at a time because of this. Like right now I’ve been procrastinating to go to the gym because people I know go around this time and I’m absolutely terrified to talk to them right now. Sometimes making eye contact is actually painful to do but I force my self to do it anyways. I always have little self-conscious thought in my head, like "is she looking at me?", "Do they think the way I walk is weird?". Ive never came out with stuff like this any one because I’m afraid of looking like a pussy. I feel way bottled up.

But then sometimes I’ll feel amazing and want to talk to everyone. I just feel like I limit my true potential. I make all my friends around this time and make plans and everything but then I realize that I’m probably going to feel like shit again and want to tell everyone to fuck off again so I try to contain my self. Like I have this glass ceiling that I know what I want but I just can’t bring my mind to get me there. I try and figure out what triggers this and I can’t, some times I think its self confidence issues and when a girl acts nervous around me it boosts me up. Sometimes I think its my sinuses or overtraining in the gym.

As bad as it hurts me to admit it, I think I’m a manic depressant.

The past couple months Ive been contemplating seeing a shrink but I just can’t bring myself to be that self-degrading. Its like I get the thought of people looking at me in the therapists lobby and think "Look at that guy, all those expensive clothes and muscles yet hes a fucking wuss for being here". Ive come to the conclusion that my conscious compass is severely fucked up and I’m not quite sure when people are thinking bad thoughts about me are false or real. All I want to do is be able to feel comfortable around my own family at Thanksgiving and Christmas time.
Well I just smoked a cigar like a fucking boss watching movies in my jacuzzi. I’m starting over tommorrow and I’m just going to be my mother fucking gangster ass self.

Its exactly all this fucking faggot self loathing that I’m doing that is bringing me down when I have girls blowing up my fucking phone and I’m not picking up because "I’m afraid I’m going to say the wrong thing". Fuck that.

Lick my ass everybody, I’m going out on top.
Doesn’t sound to me like you have bipolar disorder. Have you pretty much had a hard time being around people because of your fear of being judge?
How do you feel in your close relationships (friends, girlfriends)?

Well I’ve had bestfriends ever since I was a young lad so maybe thats the problem. I always had someone I would go to but as a kid I would lie about everything and even through high school some. I figured since I had nothing to talk about I would lie about stuff to get other peoples approval but as I got older I figured this wasn’t the way to get friends at all.

As of right now it just feels extremely awkward to be around my best-friend but at the same time we kind of say we are best friends just to say that. I honestly deep down inside want to just get him the fuck out of my life but for some reason I still am attached to him no matter what, every conversation Ive had with him is extremely weird and boring and I find myself talking just to talk.

Girls I can make good friends with but then I never pursue the friendship because I feel as if they are going to find out that I’m really actually boring and have nothing to talk about so I pretend like I don’t want to talk to them and for some odd reason this just makes them want to talk to me more. I hate it when I girl tells me that she loves me or gives me a compliment because as stupid as it sounds I feel extremely vulnerable.

Also the majority of the time I feel as if girls only like me for good looks and style rather then the real me. I feel as if no one on earth knows the real me and it makes me feel extremely lonely.
I can relate to bits and pieces of your posts.

I would start seeing a therapist asap, it really can do wonders.

I hope you get that because you think you’re not worth it, you present yourself as someone you’re not really and thus people don’t really get to know you.

I think you should see a psychologist though. My uneducated guess would be something along the lines of an avoidant personality disorder :
But yeah, see someone, you’d benefit from it.

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Is this normal? I know of another friend who’s dad would fight him but I never told him about me. Whenever I had a bruise on my body I’d just make up some excuse like me and my brother were fighting or wrestling or something.

Fathers can be assholes… but I think it is easier to deal with an asshole father than with a bitch of a mother.

My father wasn’t abusive but he did tend to go a little extreme with discipline and would hit my brother and myself constantly with taps to the head/leg/arm… nothing hard enough to break bones or leave bruises. My brother never listened and was always running his mouth though so it always put my father over the edge, and he would get the majority of the discipline.

But I remember one time my father was in a pissy mood as well as I was too, and we were sitting in the van waiting for my mother inside a grocery store. I don’t remember what caused the altercation, but he was trying to swat at my legs from behind him in the drivers seat because we had a disagreement. I got sick of his hitting over disagreements this day so I stood up to him. As he was trying to hit my legs I moved them out of the way and this made him more mad, so he tried harder to him me… at this point I raised my fist up like I was going to punch and yelled "Don’t you dare fucking hit me, I’m not like my brother, I will hit back".

After this day the hitting stopped and there was a new found respect between my father and I.

It is the same way of dealing with a bully. Bullies pick on targets that don’t fight back because this gives them power. But as soon as you fight back, they lose that power and stop bullying that target.

My friends father told him one time when they were having a disagreement that he will listen to and respect him because if he doesn’t he can/will beat his ass… however, he said one day he will be bigger, stronger and faster than him and he will be able to kick his father ass… BUT hopefully he has enough respect for his father at that time to not beat his ass.

This goes both ways… an abusive father has no respect for himself or his children.

Similar to my story with my father or the bullies, sometimes respect can’t be earned it has to be seized. And if you’re not the type of person to stand up for yourself and take that respect, then you need to distance yourself from that person.

It will only fuck you up in the head if you allow it to.
No, it is not normal. Please do yourself a favor and get into some counseling. You will thank yourself for it later.

.

I was beaten up as a kid (my father was a ‘recovered’ alcoholic) and 100% the biggest consequence of that (besides being jumpy and a general fear of men) has been a fear that i’ll do that to my own children some day.
I was in therapy from maybe 11 to 19, and it was invaluable in helping me move on and work on the tendencies i’d inherited from him.
It isn’t normal but unfortunately it is common. Tons of kids i’ve spoken to have been beaten up, only God knows what happens behind the curtains in all those households, its messed up beyond belief. We have a child phone here, were kids can call in if their parents beat them up. The number is free, and the kids can find relief in calling the number ,knowing that there is help ‘out there’.

Yeah I think it is too common. My plan is to come back and knock him the fuck out.
growing up with an alcoholic parent is not normal. but like others have said it is way too common.

i was in that same position as a kid/teenager and it sucks. especially when a father beats up on his daughter (in my case).

your dad isn’t gonna get help until something big happens; it’s gotta be life changing.
my dad didn’t stop abusing/drinking til I called the police on him. You gotta know when to say enough is enough and you have to protect yourself and your life. You cannot continue to let someone take out their anger on you no matter who that person is. If you love yourself, you will protect yourself.

I never got therapy, I turned out ok I believe but now my father and I have no relationship and we live in the same home. Frankly, I don’t want it and don’t care to have it ever again.
If you feel like you will be fucked in the head, talk with someone about it. Or go to AA meetings in your local neighborhood and discuss it, see if the counselor there can help you get counseling.
I think it’s interesting to see the different views on getting beaten by parents among different cultures. I was beaten as a kid and so was my brother. Culturally for us, as well as some friends of mine, it wasn’t a huge deal. Parents beat their kids as punishment. I’m not trying to say it’s right but I think it’s one of those things that will only really affect it if you let it. I noticed that among my friends who were from a culture where beating your kids is considered acceptable we aren’t phased by it and joke about it. It’s all just how you look at it. With that said beating does suck.

Lastly, my parents stopped beating me when I showed them I would fight back and wasn’t afraid.

Totally agree. I used to be a crazy fuck back then and if my dad had not beaten me, i would probably be dead by now. Regarding drunken rage, that’s something else, but yea he should try standing up to his dad and make him realizing that he is abusing his son. I think the abuse will stop right there.

I try to fight back and do but he has like 40-50 pounds on me and is way stronger. Now step back like 4 years and he was like 90 pounds more than me and almost a foot taller. When I got my ass handed to me like last week I got sucker punched and then got him a couple times but then basically got obliterated by one and then I was down and just got railed on. Pretty fucked. I am suprirsed how many other people had this problem. It’s a sick world out there.

Your mom never stopped him? complain to your mom. Another VERY VERY good trick is to lock yourself in a room or bathroom. He’ll bang on the door and just leave.

She wasn’t there that time, but before she’d always be yelling at him to stop but he wouldn’t. Right now I don’t care though…I’m moved out and not really talking to them right now. I won’t be coming back until at least Christmas, if ever…and I plan on kicking some ass if he tries to be an asshole again.
Well revenge is never a good thing, you’ll only become the same kind of person like your dad if you did.

How will that make me like him? I am just read to defend myself, I will not instigate. And I am not having any children so that is not a problem.
why don’t you call the police?
I am suprised no one else has mentioned this

It’s a thing of the past dude. I don’t know why I didn’t when I was younger…I guess I just didn’t want to see my father get in trouble?
Trust me locking yourself up works nice usually. He’d just give up. My father used to be alil abusive but he’s really a nice guy now. I just used to lock my self up and he got too lazy once i turned 14 or someshit.
I got the crap beat out of me almost everyday by a step dad

It took 3 reports to child services, my attempted suicide and running away from home and the cops getting involved before he stopped

but I am perfectly normal (I think) and if anything it gave me a better drive to succeed in life so I can look down on him and say see I made it despite what you said to me and put me through
I’m sorry if I don’t feel that bad for you considering that my father is a body builder with 100 lbs on me and I still stand up to him. Did I mention I’m a girl? You should just try to get over this. Like I said, it will only affect you if you let it.

Wow you’re so hardcore. I bet you’re like super strong then and when your Dad is slapping your or something you just break his wrist just by using your mind. I’m sorry that when I was like 5’3" and 100 pounds I couldn’t beat up my 235 pound Dad who was punching me. Now I’m like 6’4" and 185 and it’s still hard. Yeah I fought back that one night which was now like two weeks ago, but I’d really like to see you try, it would be laughable. One last question, CorpseStreet, how many times have you been knocked out? Bitch.
Stop being a baby about this, it isn’t going to help you. Sorry you can’t take the fact that I’m not offering you the pity you’re craving. Deal with it. If your father is so bad call the cops. Oh wait, you don’t want to. If you’re not going to do anything about it stop complaining and take it. By the way I love the name calling, real mature.

You didn’t answer my question either.
I didn’t call you a baby, I said you were being a baby. You might not see the difference there but I do. I have not been knocked out. Why does it matter? You seem to be missing my original point and focusing on my lack of pity.

I don’t care about anyone’s "pity", I wanted advice and opinions. You just think you’re so hardcore though and I find it laughable.
I gave you my advice. Try to be strong and put it behind you. That’s all you can do at this point. You said you no longer live at home so avoid going back home if you can. What happened to you sucks, I’m not going to deny that but you can’t focus on it or it will fuck you up. Do you like that response?
how do you deal with this? do you project this onto other people, like bully them? or are you just calm and keep it to yourself? to be honest with you i would be more concerned if you just take it and keep it in you rather then venting this problem that you have out of your system. that can potentially affect you psychologically in the future.

Hah, no I definintely don’t bully anyone. I think I’m nice to everyone and typically a happy person. I do keep it to myself though. I never told anyone outside of my family what has happened. Only my SO knows because they saw me after I was kicked out and was kind of fucked up. I dont know how I’d "vent" it to anyone though…I’m not comfortable talking about it and whenever I do my stomach and throat just get tied up it feels like and I can’t say anything.
if your dad is beating on you and you are over 14 you should definately fight back, regardless of your size. yah you will most likely get your ass kicked but your goal should be to hurt him as much as possible in getting your own butt kicked. If you do that, i gurantee it will be the last beating you take. stand up for yourself. if you are under 14 i suggest you call the cops or tell a teacher every time.
Holy shit this thread makes me appreciate my parents

Probably not the best words of wisdom here! Last part of the quote is some plausible advice, but i’m pretty sure that your dad being a bodybuilder knocked you out every time you "stood up to him," would probably leave you in a different attitude.
yes it will mess you up…children live what they learn.
Get therpy now before it’s too late.

.

wtf, more people need to press that this type of behavior should be reported to the police or your school. In these types of situations the only people you can absolutely trust for help and assistance are the police and social services.
I was beat as a kid and I think it really fucked me up for life. Everyone handles it differently. I saw the world through the eyes of someone older, and so when I got beat for something stupid I couldn’t stand for it as I was already a very well disciplined kid in my eyes. My father was a control freak and any little mistake (such as blinking my eyes too rapidly) meant a beating. It took an attempted suicide for him to stop. He’s given me so much money over the years…college, 3 cars, a house, and in the future, a business. It doesn’t mean anything to me though…I’m not sure if I can ever forgive him.
He’s obviously of the sadist type, you can choose to do one of two things:

1. Tell him that you won’t talk to him ever again and see how he responds and breaks down, because he needs to have you coming back to him for beatings, if he doesn’t, he begins to feel insecure and not in control.

2. If he tries to beat you, beat him back as hard as you can, this is the language sadists understand. He won’t even think of touching you if he knows that the consequence would be physically painful to him aswell. When sadists see resistance, they become very cowardly.

Argh…fuck this thread.

That is essentially my plan. My Dad is pretty huge (tall and big/strong) but ya…I’m taller now and I’m getting a lot bigger. I used to be a skinny short kid though when I was a younger teen when I really got my ass kicked. The only recent ass kicking I took was when I got kicked out of my house this summer…that was a rare occurence though. I will not initiate any kind of beat down as I’m trying to keep the house drama as low as possible while I’m home but if he EVER tries to hit me or my brother I will beat his face in for sure. Hopefully we’ll not really see each other much anymore…my parents got divorced two days ago…or are working on getting divorced rather, but yeah…my main residence will definitely be wherever my mother is and then I’m usually gone at college anyway.
yes it will mess you up…children live what they learn.
Get therpy now before it’s too late.

.

wtf, more people need to press that this type of behavior should be reported to the police or your school. In these types of situations the only people you can absolutely trust for help and assistance are the police and social services.
I was beat as a kid and I think it really fucked me up for life. Everyone handles it differently. I saw the world through the eyes of someone older, and so when I got beat for something stupid I couldn’t stand for it as I was already a very well disciplined kid in my eyes. My father was a control freak and any little mistake (such as blinking my eyes too rapidly) meant a beating. It took an attempted suicide for him to stop. He’s given me so much money over the years…college, 3 cars, a house, and in the future, a business. It doesn’t mean anything to me though…I’m not sure if I can ever forgive him.
He’s obviously of the sadist type, you can choose to do one of two things:

1. Tell him that you won’t talk to him ever again and see how he responds and breaks down, because he needs to have you coming back to him for beatings, if he doesn’t, he begins to feel insecure and not in control.

2. If he tries to beat you, beat him back as hard as you can, this is the language sadists understand. He won’t even think of touching you if he knows that the consequence would be physically painful to him aswell. When sadists see resistance, they become very cowardly.

Argh…fuck this thread.

That is essentially my plan. My Dad is pretty huge (tall and big/strong) but ya…I’m taller now and I’m getting a lot bigger. I used to be a skinny short kid though when I was a younger teen when I really got my ass kicked. The only recent ass kicking I took was when I got kicked out of my house this summer…that was a rare occurence though. I will not initiate any kind of beat down as I’m trying to keep the house drama as low as possible while I’m home but if he EVER tries to hit me or my brother I will beat his face in for sure. Hopefully we’ll not really see each other much anymore…my parents got divorced two days ago…or are working on getting divorced rather, but yeah…my main residence will definitely be wherever my mother is and then I’m usually gone at college anyway.

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You should cross-post this in the vag as well. Maybe push for a sticky.
No, I disagree with your opinion on shyness. It seems pretty good otherwise
Although I agree with most of what you say, why should anyone read it?

Establish some credibility! Show some pictures! Share a lot of personal success stories!

As far as I know, you could have just finished reading The Game, Double Your Dating, or The Mystery Method (or venutian arts, whatever its called), it made sense to you, and you’re just summarizing and paraphrasing everything you read.

I’m not disrespecting what you wrote, namely before I agree with it, but I could find the same ideas, more professionally written, in Double Your Dating or a combination of other popular books. Normally I would not criticize how well something is written on a message board, but it looks like you put effort into it and this isn’t exactly an "informal" post.

As an English Major, it’s important to me to recognize when a person with good ideas and a passion to write about it is not able to effectively get the desired message across.

Initially, aside from the suggestions I mentioned above, I would attempt to explain your ideas through stories. If you can’t relate personally, then make up stories. Stories always seem to sink in a lot better than a "how-to" guide.
, what exactly do you disagree with? Please ellaborate.

Socrates, I’ve been on these forums for some time with the Dating Advice. My cred has already been established. Besides, the stuff speaks for itself. Challenge the point not the poster.
I just do not see "shyness as a condition influenced by fear and anxiety".

you hit a lot of good points diggity… a lot.

what else could it be from then?
LOL double your dating = try a lot and you’ll get more dates then not trying at all.

the majority of guys that get it do not date and them he makes them ask a lot of girls out and they start dating…..

I didn’t read his posts yet, but some people are naturally introverted.

Could you elaborate more? I think I would understand where you are coming much more if you took some time to go into details regarding your opinion on the matter. Are you relating your opinion to yourself? What kind of situations have you found yourself in?

Since you brought it up.

1. As an English Major

This should be, "English major."

2. "As an English Major, it…"

This is semantically incorrect. The adjective phrase preceding a sentence modifies the subject of that sentence. You mean to say, "As an English major, I…"

"As an English Major, it…" tells the reader that "it" is an English major.

3. "it’s important to me to recognize" is awkward. "I find it important to recognize…" is preferable.

4. "a person with good ideas and a passion to write about it"

This is the most egregious error in the sentence. What part of the sentence does "it" refer to here? Think about that for a moment.

5. "to effectively get" splits an infinitive when there are palatable alternatives.
thanks dd… long time no see. i remember your posts from way back, before you disappeared.

"deep seeded" should be "deep-seated," btw.

This is like putting a band aid on a broken leg. I know, because I’ve tried it. I joined up softball earlier in the year and played and it was wonderful for building self-confidence….until the season ended. It’s just a boost for you. Like a shot of whiskey or a joint. It’s a high. And I urge you to do this for those highs in the beginning when you are the lowest. BUT it’s only a START.

The most surefire and permanent way to build true self-confidence is to be honest with yourself. Painfully honest with yourself. Be so honest that it hurts and ADMIT YOUR PROBLEMS AND ISSUES AND YOUR FAILURES TO YOURSELF. Admit to yourself that you are wrong and FACE those issues head on instead of trying to forget about them. You’ll discover that in time it gets easier to do and soon you don’t even CARE if someone rags on you about something because you’ve removed the doubt of "is this person right?" by facing your own issues and what you know is true about yourself and came out of denial. So if someone challenges you, you are equipped to know that whether that challenge is founded or unfounded. Soon you get to a place when you love it when people are brutally honest with you because you use that honesty to grow and become a better person. You don’t fear your faults and insecurities anymore, but you face them head on. And NOTHING absolutely nothing builds self-confidence like facing your biggest insecurities and fears.

Blah blah blah blah blah. THIS IS WHAT WOMEN DO. You are a man. Dress the way you WANT to dress and stop trying to be trendy. Girls don’t WANT guys with a fashion sense. You know why? BECAUSE GUYS WITH FASHION SENSES TEND TO BE GAY. That’s why. You are a man, be a man. Wear what YOU like and stop trying to fit some mold just to make the "cover" look nice to a woman.

Learn to attract women using your personality, your wit, and your charm and fuck trying to make yourself look "pretty" for her.

I’ve always said that all a man needs is the three C’s and he can get virtually any woman he desires. Confidence, Character, and Charisma.

I really, really liked these sections and the way you worded them. Good job.

This only applies to the beginning of a relationship (perhaps the first 2 or 3 moths).

In fact, I encourage you guys to actually use these tools to your advantage. Most of us are on message boards because we have a little "writer" in us. We write and articulate how we feel and think better through writing than we do through words (at least that’s the case for me). And being able to do that with a woman is HUGE if you want to build a long term relationship with her.

Don’t be so quick to discount IM convos and text messaging. Women LOVE this shit and if you do it right you can really use this to your advantage.
Viper,

Guys who peacock well make girls’ breasts stick up. So I would disagree

Peacocking works. I never said it didn’t.

But you don’t HAVE to do it. I can be just as successful with my wit and charm in a pair of blue jeans and a t-shirt from a yard sale or something as a man wearing trendy shit.

that’s true but if you have a goal you should do what you can to get there. if it helps then it speaks for itself.

so, no, wearing shitty clothing won’t preclude you getting any.

otoh, wearing good clothing will help.

Myself, no. I have known 3 guys who purchased Deangelo’s tapes. All 3 were introverted "nerds" and the second they got the tapes and realized that they could "talk" to women, they started dating. They tried being "cocky and funny" and failed horribly since it was the exact opposite of who they are as people, and they started being successful after numerous dates and experience with multiple women.

The best way to summarize Deangelo is – date more to date more. His entire "cocky and funny" concept is something that I feel comes naturally with time, patience and experience with talking to people. He is basically telling people to become more interesting and successful to become more interesting and successful, but this is not for themselves but for others, so I can not see how authentic or powerful this could ultimately be.

I prefer the Tom Leykis philosophy to the Deangelo one – just do not give a shit about women. To me, this leaves people open to growth and development, since they are able to authentically work on themselves for themselves and not for that "moment you create attraction".

Multiple people online have blasted Denangelo’s work, since there is a female he has been seen on tape with that writes the EXACT same book for women, just with their "rules". I hate seeing these rule games. I prefer for myself and others to fully connect with what they want to get in a situation and to find their own way to get it.

I have said before on the forum "A "man" does what a "man" wants to do, and thats what makes him a "man". The same concept works here – confidently and powerfully approach any situation, regardless if it is dating, or work, or school , etc etc, and you will be fine. The entire point is to live through it for the next time, and then the next time, and the next. Thats how you develop into a powerful person.

Experience and emotional development is of supreme importance, not a person telling you specific rules or regulations who is actually just giving out very veiled inspirational videos. Thats all this man is doing – reminding you that one day, somewhere, for some reason, a "woman" will find what you do attractive, and will initiate the relationship and you will not be able to control it, and you will not be able to get her OFF of you. Thats how it is.

A good real life example would be – if you ever had a little child get a crush on you. You were sitting there, and out of no where, the kid gets a crush on you, for what you think is no reason. Did you try? No. (Unless you are a Pedo, to which I say fuck you.) You just were doing your thing and it happens, and you can not get them to leave you alone.

This is what is happening when you "create attraction" with females. You can not control it, you can only wait around and catch it. You yourself can not emotionally trigger a person, they allow themselves to be triggered emotionally as a attempt to meet an unmet need or to express a met one.

I remember when I turned 22, all of these 17-19 year old girls started to get interested in me, for NO reason. Basically, I did not give a shit about them, and they started begging me for dates. Life is weird in this way.

The ultimate question is – How do I get chicks? The answer is – You just do.

I can not give you an authentically better answer then that.

I never read Deangelo but I have heard about him. I disagree that "cocky and funny" is the opposite of who those guys are. Being "cocky and funny" isn’t who you are, it’s how you express yourself. If they aren’t comfortable with expressing themselves that way then they will fail. That doesn’t mean if they try to express themselves in a different way and eventually like it and become more proficient with it, that they won’t be able to do it. They can, if they really want to and are willing to put in the work to become comfortable with it.

I am not saying that this is the way to go, nor am I saying it’s the only way to go. I am just saying in response to your point that acting "Cocky and Funny" isn’t who a person is at their core, it’s just a manner of expressing themselves. A guy who isn’t funny to most people still has a sense of humor, he might just not have the social skills to deliver his sense of humor in a way that other people appreciate. That does not mean that he cannot learn to do this through practice and experience.

If a person doesn’t want to learn it, then they won’t.

Agreed.

I guess you’re going off an Deangelo again here?

I sort of disagree here. Yes, you cannot make someone do anything, but your actions can have a powerful influence on attractions. If you are chatting with a girl and acting completely desperate or sending any other number of unattractive signals, she could turn you down whereas if you were doing things that sent much more positive signals about your self as a strong independant and healthy person, you are in a much more powerful position to influence that attraction in a positive direction.

I don’t think it was so weird, I just think you were displaying a Higher Value. When you were in High School you may not have stood out as much with your peers, but once you were older and out of High School you probably seemed much more "cool". In addition, if you didn’t give a shit, this also aids you in displaying a Higher Value. They didn’t have any hold over you. This tells them that you’re at least their equal, or they may even see you as a "superior" as you were older and such.

It is true that women are more likely to be attracted to "better guys" with "higher value". The truth is that many "hot guys" still can not get laid. Do figure, they have the same problems as the "nerds", and in individual situations if the girl does not like the guy, he is hard pressed to change that.

There are so many factors to if a girl likes you or not, such as if she has meet other likable people lately, is in a good mood or not, ate food that morning, etc etc, that I can not see it as anyones fault that she has or has not felt attracted to someone.

Well said.

I’m sorry but this is retarded. Some guys have no idea of what they look like and tend to look stupid. There is nothing wrong with having a fashion sense and in fact it shows that you actually care about yourself.
I am not saying you have to be preppy, you could do anything, even the goth route, but at least know how to dress it. If you are completely clueless about your appearence and if you look like a bum or an idiot then you’ll be sending people the wrong signals.

I fully believe in caring about yourself above other people’s opinion but you can obviously take that too far. Sometimes being a rock head in regards to certain things actually puts up a roadblock rather than aiding you.

No one is saying that you have to attract women with just your looks, this whole article is about preparing yourself the best you can, and a sad fact of life is that your biggest impression is your first impression. Know what you look like. Know how to highlight yourself.

Who said pretty? And who said dress for her? Look good for yourself.

You forgot the most important C out there. Competence. I’d rather have the competence to meet women than the confidence. I heard it equated to this:

If you jump from an airplane, would you rather have the confidence to pull the parachute, or the competence?

Thanks!

Of course. When you are building your connection, it’s best to do it in person and limit those things. Once she’s won over and/or you’re in a relationship, there’s not as dire a need to watch your steps and signals. You’d be beyond that.

No one said that you cannot use electronic communication. But your primary focus should be to develope the connection in person and to limit your dependency to IM’s, emails, and text messaging. Even the phone. Those tools should primarily be used to set up dates in the beginning, not to be your method of dating.
Competence, to me, IS a character trait.

And clothes and fashion don’t amount to a hill of shit. It’s not important. yeah, as JJJ said, it HELPS, but someone who needs a post like this to score women has far more important shit to worry about than the way they dress.

Competence denotes a level of mastery of something, not a part of your character.

You just admitted your dress helps. If it helps, why not give a tiny little mention to it? You’re really blowing that part out of proportion. What is the real issue here? One of the good parts of your post was admitting your issues. Clearly there is some underlying issue here with a person’s appearence. You admit appearence "helps" but then respond nastily to any mention or tips on how to improve it.
And if the way you’re dressed didn’t amount to shit, then go out there and pick up every girl you can dressed to kill, and then go out there wearing mismatched out of style rags and pick up all the same girls. Then tell me it doesn’t amount to shit. Appearence helps. The biggest part is clearly your Self Confidence, your Social Skills, and your Self Respect… which all help give you Value. How you take care of yourself is how most people make a quick judgement on how you feel about yourself. Dressing up and looking good is a means to assist you in delivering a message that you are somebody. It’s not always required but it is an asset and to deny that is just wrong.

I’ve been thinking about testing this theory for a LONG time. I always said that you could pick up a girl wearing only a feed sack if you had the confidence and the charisma to do it.
people actually read this kind of stuff?

I didn’t read it but if simple dating doesn’t come natural it’s because you haven’t had much experience with it.

Want to get good at dating? go on more dates. /thread

I see this type of post all of the time from people who have this come naturally to them, at least to a point where dating isn’t an issue. This thread is not for guys like that. You won’t get it, and neither do you need to be condescending or arrogant about it.

There are a lot of guys out there who have no idea what they are doing. They always end up "the friend", they always get rejected, or they always do something that causes them to remain single while all of their friends go through women like toilet paper. These guys are hurting and need help, they just can’t figure out what is wrong on their own.

There is nothing wrong with being that guy as long as you’re willing to learn. Not everyone has this shit come naturally to them, and in fact most guys don’t. So this thread is designed to help guys undertand generally how dating works.

you want to learn guitar? you practice/play it.

you want to have more successful dates? you need to practice.

I can tell you, and in great detail, to do a task. But I guarantee the 100th time performing the task will be more successful than the first.

see what I’m saying? So put yourself out there, regardless if it comes natural or not.

Do you think for one second that this post of yours is somehow disputing my thread? Of course it takes practice. What do you think I was encouraging throughout that entire article?

The thing is, if someone is clueless about girls, you cannot solve their issues by saying, "Hey, get out and practice! Bye!" A whole lot of people are going to need a much more precise and detailed explaination on how to improve themselves.
hooray for more of the spanish fly, confidence garbage jargon.

I was posting an informal response on a message board; not a final paper.

I wrote the thoughts that were in my head. I didn’t read over my response, check it, or revise it.

Even if I checked it 100 times, I still probably would have made a mistake. I am an English major, not an English teacher. I do not claim to know all of the rules in grammar. I didn’t pick apart his post and criticize every single part. I was simply getting the message across that in a formal post, more caution should be made to deliver the point in the best possible way.

Had I been typing a formal post like his, I would have been more careful and put some thought into my post. But I’m sure every single informal post you make would be ready to be published in a book without any editing.

I bet you feel pretty cool right now though .

Would you take dating advice from a 400-pound pimple-faced 17 year old? I browse these forums fairly frequently and have never even seen your name. The typical person reading your post is in the same situation.

I don’t need to challenge the point; it’s all good stuff. The only problem is that none of it’s original and I can find the same ideas that aren’t written at a 4th grade level on a thousand other sites.

Just quit, man.

It would be unbareable to hang out with you. You’re that guy who sits in class and corrects the teacher every time she misspells a word on the board, then high fives everyone around you.

I have no idea whether or not your knowledge of English is better than mine. What I do know is that I don’t attempt to use what I do know to show off, and I don’t freak out of I’m not 100% correct all the time.

My favorite thing about you is, despite what I have written to you in this post, you can’t stop thinking about how bad you want to tell me it’s "unbearable."

Check out his post history (the threads he’s started). He had one here a while back about his wife or fiance or girlfriend or something which had vids.

Not only was she fucking hot as hell, but she was a damned good singer too.
The trolling is getting stupid.

I like this little manual, yeah a sticky in vag would be good for it.

I have a preference for keeping things simple though. All that’s usually needed on the subject is along the lines of ‘Be yourself.’
If it works, you’ll know and feel it.
Don’t try to change, overall relationships are about happiness and you’ll never find it being someone else.
oh and don’t fart in bed until a couple of weeks into it out of courtesy, then blow all you want and if they’re serious and worth the effort they’ll deal with it.

One thing though, "What attracts women?" might be better said "What attracts women worth your time"

That’s really not a terrific example because it doesn’t really tell you how to learn to play the instrument. Okay, so someone got me a guitar for Christmas because they heard me say I’ve always wanted to learn it. Now what? Do I need lessons from an instructor? Do I need to read an instructional book? Watch an instructional video? Hammer away at the thing with no rhyme or reason everyday until I start to discern how different actions produce different sounds?

Any one of these approaches works differently for different people. So, when people ask how to learn guitar, to be helpful it’s good to give a broad overview of the different approaches people take and how effective they are in general. Not to just go "obviously, you practice it!"

If that 400-pound pimple faced 17 year old knew what they were talking about then I would be stupid to ignore their advice simply for being a 400 pound pimple faced 17 year old.

I don’t post everyday, but I have a solid post history in the Asylum. A simple search could show you that.

Mystery is good. Very good about breaking down the approach and helping you understand how to send signals of High Value.

I don’t think Mystery goes too much into the actual relationship part or about guiding you to the right relationship but I don’t know if there is anything better when it comes to getting a relationship.

Competence is a moralistic judgment.

Levels of "competence" are moralistic judgments upon sets of actions. it is not so easy to define "doing something".

There are literally a million ways you could pull that rip cord, in a million different situations. Some schools of thought feel you need to count to 10 and pull, others say to sing to 20. In the end, it is your personal choice which set of values to believe in and which to follow, a set of judgments that meet your unique needs.

Other then arguing about this, lets agree with the fact that as long as it gets pulled in time, we land and do not die. Ok?
Yeah, Jesus Christ, talk about going overboard on a moot point.

Hey, my three "C’s" are just a little guide. No need to pick them apart and try to make them into something more or less.
Still, you are wrong. Competence is a subjective claim, based on ones beliefs. No dictionary definition is going to change that, unless they change the meaning of the words.

One mans competence is another mans failure. I can lead this all night – what is "the minimum standard?"

And we start swirling down the toilet again.
I’ve always more associated the word competence with the ability to perform. I’m glad the dictionary got itself out though, nothing like an education.
Everyone’s interested in being right, people are raised that way. Good guys and bad guys are defined by who is right and who is wrong from day one. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be right.

Yes we can find this kind of logic anywhere, but more often than not when we need logic the most it escapes us. There’s a big market of Dr.Phil out there so why not state the obvious and have it readily accessible to a couple of guys on OT are probably going to find it valuable. It isn’t bad advice, it’s a nice chicken-wire frame of tidbits to get them hyped and maybe instill a little confidence. He isn’t claiming a high-horse of authority, just putting his two cents out there.

the minimum standard is not something that has to be universal. competence is a scoped concept.

bring this to on topic and i’ll win this argument for metallic blue.

edit: this post has been self-censored at the last minute, for gratuitous and trollish content.
A lot of this self-help material is pretty insipid.

Take Viper’s 3 c’s.

What happened there was Viper thought to himself, "Hm, I can put these three vague concepts into a box together. Yeah. Look at that box there. I must have done something productive. Shit they even start with the same letter."

In Viper’s case, you get to see someone’s love of analyzing, of categorizing, and of identifying shit. The final step is to put a label on it, preferably one that alliterates, and you’ve succeeded!

In contrast, there’s this distinct way that good self-help material sounds to me. For one thing it uses specifics. It discusses concrete tools. It declares rules of thumb rather than universal laws. It doesn’t seek The Truth – it seeks results.

Basically, every sentence is something that can actually be put into practice.

That’s what I think is great about the mystery method. I prefer other methods for personal aesthetic reasons, but the mystery method has the wonderful benefit of being literally entirely 100% usable.

You’d think that wouldn’t be such a high standard, right? That something simply can be used?

But somehow, inexplicably, you get shit like "be confident."

Confidence, Charisma, and Character. The three C’s that get you any woman you want.

Go use that.

It’s like … "all a woman needs to get just about any man she desires, is 1. SEX APPEAL – do your makeup proper, ladies!!! and 2. EXTRAVERSION – no hiding in the corner, now."

I call this magical duo …………… SEXTRAVERSION.

There. I’ve done something productive.

Anyways yeah that’s how it sounds to me.

How long have you been doing MM metallic blue??

wow… i was just correcting the mistakes man. why is everyone so sensitive about their intelligence on this fucking forum. i thought you were cool but instead of saying, "die, you pedantic bastard!! " we get a little hissy fit. jesus.
Ladybug, you’re right in that I am not claiming to be on a High Horse of Authority. There are higher authorities out there, but neither am I just offering my measley two cents. I’ve been studying and working the Dating Scene for 7 years and I’d say I understand a great deal more than most.

A couple of my friends do the Mystery Method, and each of them have revolved their entire lives around it. They ended up taking it beyond just getting better with social skills, being aware of what signals they send, and being able to influence attraction, they made it their entire lives. They lost sight of the entire point, to find a strong relationship and now they are judging the entirity of their lives by how successful they can get at meeting girls. If that’s what they want, good for them, but it seems so much less then what their original goal was.

That about sums it up.
From now on I’m going to be Sextraverted! a.k.a Histrionic.

What can I say? I was embarrassed .
haha, i was all "hey, i remember reading this already", then i looked at the post date.

overall, i agree with the article. however, just like with any goal, you have to suck it up and do what’s necessary to achieve that goal. you can’t half-ass it and expect results, or even worse, expect things to just happen on their own.
Very nice guide. I rate it a 9/10. Excellent work, keep it up!

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the unfortunate thing is that these blabbles CAN be funny, but my mother completely butchers everything. i could give her comedy classes for christmas?

I had no idea what Blabble was until this thread (now I have to figure out how to get it off my facebook). Anyway, I don’t see what the big deal is. Parents are embarrassing. That’s life.

Still seems a weird choice to put that in this forum…
explain to me why this goes here, or I am going to move it to.. I dunno…. freaky shiat

OMFG U HAV FACEBOOK??? LINK????

pot, meet kettle.
This is either a bot, or just some idiot, because they just constantly post movie links.

Do I really want you e-stalkers to know?

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In a relationship right now where my BF is ~2 or 2.5 hours away and we are both very serious about our grades and all that so visiting will be slim…maybe like…every other weekend to be realistic. So ya…lots of video chat/phone calls…but that’s not really enough I assume. Any tips on making this work? We love each other a lot so I know it won’t crumble or anything…I just want it to be more fun and less "work" for both of us.

Cheating is a non-issue too. I’m in the closet at school so no dudes for me and as for him, I can trust him.
Out of curiosity, how long have you two been together and how old are you?

I did long distance for one year at school. We were 3.5 hours apart. We saw each other only once a month or less. We talked on the phone at least 3 hours every night as well as on instant messenger randomly during the day. It’s really hard, but it can work. Whenever I was home we’d spend as much time together as possible which helped, but then leaving was really hard. Something we did to make it more fun was randomly write letters, poems or take pictures and mail them to each other. I never got any mail at school so it made me look forward to looking in my mail box.

Actually we are about to be doing sort of long distance again. He’s going away for training for work and he will live at the training facility during the week. We probably will not get to communicate at all during this time. But he will be living with me on the weekends. I am not looking forward to this, that phone call every night really made the difference.
how long will you guys be long distance?

if there is an end in sight, its helpful. my SO and i did long distance for about 8 months before we decided it wasnt working, so i spent the next 4 months figuring out how to move closer to him (i know being in school makes that part impossible) and the last 4 months of the long distance were easier knowing there was a plan to be closer and an end in sight.

we chatted during the day online, saw each other as much as possible, and played an online video game together during the week when we couldnt see each other so that we could still semi interact (it sounds so nerdy, but it was extremely helpful to feel closer to him)

best of luck, its hard even in the best circumstances
Long distance relationships are fine if they are temporary. And by "temporary" I mean anything UNDER 1 year, but preferrably less than 6 months.

Anything more than that just isn’t worth it and takes too much of a toll ont he relationship. The longer you drag out a LDR, the more likely it will be that when you DO get to be together, you’ll discover that it simply isn’t the same or what you thought it would be.

thats a really good point. have you guys ever been in the same place for an extended amount of time while dating? or did your dating start off long distance?
Heya, I totally forgot about this thread. Sorry. Anyway…we’re both 19 and have been dating this whole summer…I know that is not very long but I really cant put it in words how much we like each other. We are perfect together essentially. As for how long it will be long distance…at least until Christmas (early December). Then we’ll be on Christmas break which is a month long and he is transferring to my school. He’s not ONLY transferring to this school because of me, so dont be alarmed by that…he also just doesnt like his current school. When we first started dating we would be with each other at least 5 days a week…so ya going from that to 0 days a week is pretty hard but we talk on the phone a lot so that is helpful. That and I got him started on video chat. That’s been fun… (Yes it got naughty) He is actually visiting today and should be here really soon. Sadly though I can’t tell anyone he’s my BF I am just saying he’s a friend because I"m still in the closet at school. I just came out at home this summer.
Don’t listen to the Debbie Downers in here (Viper *cough *cough)

It’s totally doable as long as you both are willing to put in the time and effort. Sure, it’s not fun- but it has it’s perks. I don’t think its a matter of distance as much it is a matter of compatibility. If you don’t want the same things, don’t have the same end goal or aren’t willing to see your time apart as an opportunity instead of a challenge, it’s not going to work. Just like any relationship.

It’s hard, I won’t deny that. But here’s what you do:

- Have your own life. Both of you need to do this. I cannot stress this enough. If you waste away every extra moment thinking about them, calling them or wishing you were there with them, you won’t make it very far. The stress is too much. Have your own activities (besides school and work) and incorporate your SO into your life. Don’t let them BECOME your life. (this is SOP for all relationships in my opinion)

- Find something you can do together, even though you’re far apart. Like Vodka said, play a video game, designate a specific time to talk each day, write letters, video chat- whatev. Keep in contact, just don’t smother.

- Share the responsibility of seeing each other. You should both be putting in the effort to see each other. Don’t let this become one sided.

- Be aware of how the stress of being apart affects you- then, do something about it. For example, when I first started dating my SO (we were long distance at the time) everything was great a first, but then we started getting into the WORST fights. I couldn’t understand it. It happened a few times a week. It was horrible. Then, I started to recognize that I would fight with him only when I was really busy with school… after a few days of some serious reflection, I realized that I would pick fights with him when I felt like I didn’t have enoguh time with him. Many nights during that time, we wouldn’t get the chance to have a real, more-than-5-minute-conversation until like 11 at night. And I had to leave for class at 7:30 am. That’s not much time to sleep, let alone nurture a new relationship. I felt HORRIBLE that I wasn’t able to spend more time talking to him- so I’d pick fights with him because then I felt justified in staying up till all hours of the night to talk with him and resolve our fight. I fought with him to spend more time with him and not feel guilty about it. If I hadn’t realized that and corrected it immediately, we wouldn’t be sitting together in the same room right now.

You don’t have to have an exact plan of when, where and how you’re going to be together right away, but you will need one eventually. Be aware though, that making that plan can be very stressful and living with the knowledge of that plan coming to fruition some day soon can be even more stressful. The plan will take over you life if you let it and you’ll find yourself whining about not being able to be together sooner. It’s a blessing and a curse.
K, part II.

(Sorry, my computer is being super wonky lately and it’ll blue screen outta nowhere and I’ll lose my entire message. didn’t want to lose all that.)

So, this situation gives you numerous opportunities. I suggest you take them.
Here’s a small sampling of what I’ve learned:

- Communication. Few things suck more than fighting over the phone. I’m not saying don’t fight, every couple needs a good scrap every once in a while. I mean, if you’re going to fight, fight fair.
Don’t bring up shit from the past.
Don’t let shit build up until you explode.
Absolutely, under NO curmstance are you to ever call names.
Be calm and assertive and know when to take a breather so you can come back to the situation and resolve it.
Learn what is worth fighting for and what’s not.
Learn what signs your SO gives out before he gets to the point where he’s so aggitated that he’s fighting just to fight. I’ve found that problems are much easier to resolve when neither of you get into that "red zone."

For example, no one in this world can disarm me as fast as my SO. I’ll be ready to blow my top and he’ll come back with, "yeah, well, your mom.. (something something something).." It completely stops me in my tracks, never fails to make me laugh and gives me a minute to cool the hell down. Then we work it out. I’ve learned to do the same for him.

- Friendship. When we started dating, I was 20 and he was 22. We were long distance for our first 2 1/2 years. Like, 411 miles apart kind of distance. At first we saw each other about every 7 weeks, but then I was trying to finish my degree and for a year we saw each other once every 3 months at best.

I’ll tell you what though, I wouldn’t trade that for the world. The long distance was the best thing that ever happened to us. We didn’t know each other very well when we first started dating, so building our friendship while building our relationship had to come first. We had to build a solid foundation for this relationship to work. In the 5 years we’ve been together we have been through some SERIOUS bullshit. (His mom died, mine got cancer again, my dad broke his neck- I could go on and on… ) I promise you that if we had not had the chance to build such a solid friendship, our relationship never would have worked.

-Patience. Not everything is going to work out the way you want it when you want it to. Figure out how to deal with it, or you’ll drive yourself crazy.

-Acceptance. People are going to let you down. There’s no two ways around it. Your SO isn’t always going to act the way you want or expect. Your friends aren’t going to be as supportive and you wish they would be. You aren’t always going to be able to keep your shit together while trying to go to school, work and build a new relationship. Deal with it. It’s not the end of the world. and it’s never as bad after you’ve had time to step back and look at the situation again. Don’t let it hang you up.

-Trust. Without this, your relationship will fail so fast it’ll make your head spin. Even if you’ve been hurt in relationships before, that’s no reason not to trust your current SO (so long as they haven’t given you a reason not to). This part is super hard for a lot of people in LDRs. If you can’t trust them, either because of your own hang ups or theirs, then this is going to be really hard.

-Becoming yourself while being with someone else. I had a hard time at 20 years old learning that I could be myself, do my own things, go where I wanted to go, have my own friends and still have a loving relationship with my SO. Before then, I didn’t know that my world didn’t have to revolve around him. Learning that one of the best ways to have a healthy relationship was to have a life outside your relationship, took me a minute to figure out. Being long distance helped me realize it was possible.

You have a fantastic opprotunity to build a solid foundation here. You have endless chances learn about each other, what makes the other one tick, what makes them happy or sad, their dreams, their goals, their favorite breakfast cereal, the brand of peanut butter they prefer… you can’t have a physical relationship when all you can do is talk, and while it’s frustrating, it’s a blessing in disguise. I highly suggest you take full advantage of it.

Good luck out there
Oh my God….thank you thank you thank you. I will reply tomorrow with more as I don’t want to look like I’m typing an essay right now because we’re watching a movie on the bed and I popped open the lappy real quick. As for the fighting aspect…I hope that’s not a problem, we never have even been remotely close to fighting before. Thanks again. It’s nice to hear a girl’s side of things as they usually understand stuff like this more in my opinion. Two guys in a relationship is like two blind ducks running in circles. Ahh I like him so much. Time to go convince a back rub.

That’s the BEST line I’ve heard in a while! I really Lol’ed for real and my SO is looking at me funny

Don’t worry about fighting. Everyone does it. It’s perfectly natural and HEALTHY. It sucks and its nervewracking at first, but if you’re smart about it, it’ll be fine and you’ll learn a lot from it.

Enjoy your back rub!
Girls are so cool. I will enjoy it. Time to put away this stupid laptop and enjoy our time together now. It’s going to be a long night.
Wow I just read it again and all I can say is thanks. You bring up lots of good points that I will be sure to keep in mind.

for sure. Last night was fun let’s put it that way. I got my back rub too. My stupid boyfriend was being waaaayyyy tooo loud though at like 4 AM just like drunk as fuck running down the halls, yelling while talking to the drunkars who were still awake. I think everyone on my floor now hates me. All good times though…it was a fuckin Friday they can’t complain. Going mountain biking today hopefully…might have to take 2 cars…neither of us has a big enough car to throw two bikes in, sadly.
Have a great time today! Feel free to pm me if you ever wanna chat
Will do. Any others want to chime in? Always nice to hear others point of view.
I didn’t read every reply, but I will throw in my LDR experience.

My husband and I were in one for 6 months, I was 18, he was 20. I was still in high school for the first few months of our relationship. We lived 200 miles apart (~3 hours of driving). In the beginning we saw one another every 2-3 weeks for Friday night, Saturday, and Sunday for half a day before parting again. It’s very possible to make it work, as long as you both want to equally invest in the relationship to keep it working. We knew we had to trust one another completely (his ex lived a few miles away and wanted him back big time, though she was pregnant with another guy’s kid and that was a big "never gonna be together again" thing for my SO anyway – kinda made it easier to have trust in that situation). We also took the time to communicate with one another. Call on the phone, email, text, IM, when we had a chance to talk and just to see how each other’s day went.

I never enjoy reading the "It’ll never work" responses. Many people told me that we’d never work out. We’re closing in on our 1st wedding anniversary / 4 years of being together in the next few months.
Time to see how everything will go. He just left after visiting this weekend and I won’t see him for 2 weeks. I already feel sad but that’s life…he will be transferring here after the new year though. Then we can be together as much as we want. It was hard to let him go though earlier…our hug goodbye was like a minute.
That’s the one thing- the goodbyes never get any easier.

I agree I think they got harder each time for awhile.
I can already see that. When he left for school it was hard and now when he left to go back to school after visiting it was even harder. I’m feeling in the shitter about hella shit right now though so this is just stacking.
You can make it work if you really want to. As long as one of you drives or there is a train or some reasonable transportation back and forth, a bi-weekly visit is more than enough to keep a relationship alive in my experience.

I’m curious though, why are you in the closet? I bet it’s really hard to be openly gay a lot of places in the country (I’m born and raised in San Francisco so I haven’t seen that personally) but if there’s people you could come out to you should. Leading a double life will take its toll eventually.
I am actually from San Jose and I’m out there as of this summer. Everyone took it well except for the last people I told, my parents. They essentially cut me off and kicked me out of the house a day after I told them. Now I’m at school a few hours away and AFAIK, no one here knows that I’m gay. And it is kind of hard to tell people now after seeing my parents react. Plus I’m very depressed right now so that doesn’t really help anything.
I’m thinking of going to the Gay/Lesbian Center on campus or at least talking to them…I hope someone there can help me. I feel unexplicably horrible every morning I wake up now and then more throughout the day here at school. I know that is not a good thing and I need to fix something in my life but I can’t find what it is. I feel sick, headache, stuffy nose, always dehydrated, low energy. That combined with my depression makes me want to just stay in bed all day. FUCCKKKK. The only thing right now that made me happy was my BF but now he’s gone too.
I feel a little peppier / happier today than I did before…so hopefully this will continue! I met with my parents today for the first time since I was kicked out and showed my mom a picture(s) of my BF. It was kind of … actually very awkward but I guess it’s a step in the right direction, you know? I hope that one day they can look past me being "gay" and just see me as me. I’d still say my Dad is disgruntled with the thought of it but my mother seems much more open to accept me for who I am and says maybe later she’d like to meet my boyfriend. Sigh…………living life one day at a time. That’s all it seems anymore. Get through one day and just continue to live until you get to the next. I think I might visit my BF this weekend before classes get too hectic. Plus I really really miss him after he left his weekend. I just want to hold him in my arms.
I was going to visit this weekend but I can’t wait any longer. I’m driving up there for the day tomorrow after class and will be back in the afternoon/nighttime. Ya…it is a lot of driving but I miss him a lot right now. Is this something I should not be doing? I only say that because it is like me caving in to my feelings so quickly that I won’t be able to adjust to this. I only have to wait until Christmas to be with him permanently but that seems so far away.

i see no reason why you shouldnt if you are able. you have to take every chance you get to spend time together. while driving back and forth like that every week would be exhausting, get expensive and might get in the way of your school, every once in a while you need it and thats fine. you guys should feel lucky that you are close enough that this can be an option.

christmas is so close (though i know it doesnt feel close enough in this situation) so see if you guys can set up a schedule to see each other so you know the next time you will see him. if he leaves and its unknown, i think that makes it even harder.
right now we are thinking every weekend or every other weekend if we are busy. He is about 2 hours away right now so it’s not a HUGE drive but it’s not short either. I just got done with classes so I’m going to head out in a bit. Can’t wait to see the look on his face.
thats about how far away my SO and i were (thanks to so cal traffic….) so we saw each other every weekend, and then had the occational middle of the week meeting, but most of the time, those were really stressful because of hours of driving and very little time to actually spend together before he had to drive home or i had to drive home for work the next day

you guys should be fine with christmas ending the LD part of it all
Bleh. That’s too much driving for just a few hours but it was worth it…I think that is what I needed to last me until the weekend(s)…and yea…it is just until Christmas/December. But that is more than 2 months away. Nothing horrible though I guess, it could be worse. I’m just glad he’s switching schools. He wasn’t expecting me though…so it was funny to see his face when he saw me. Knocked on his door…

"Who is it?"
"house keeping"
"what the hell…"
*opens door*

I already miss him again. I want to laugh because it has been like half a day since I last saw him but then I still do miss him already. This summer we spent like every day together so it was a very abrupt change I guess.
Hung out together, slept over at his house, went swimming, went to the gym, got lunch…did like everything together and now he’s gone.

I guess all I can do is wait until Friday…only 48 hours.
I think I have a problem. I’ll be fine, doing homework or something and then be really really depressed like instantly and I can’t get out of this state. The past few months of my life have been so hard I think I am just mind fucking myself. I don’t want to be a sissy fuck but something in my life is not right and I can’t figure it out. I have a loving boyfriend. I go to college and just changed majors to something I like more. My family did kick me out of my house this summer and I think that is what destroyed me. My dad beat me up and when I woke up he told me to leave and never come back. I’m still not over that I think. I have seen him since this once and he was typical nice. Nothing overly excited to see me but wasn’t an asshole or anything. I just really hate myself sometimes and feel depressed and I don’t know why. I have a family, shelter, food, caring boyfriend, friends from class, gym, high school, dorms… I quit doing all drugs but I don’t think that is it. I’ve done x maybe 6-7 times, coke a lot more than that, probably more like 20 occassions and then smoked(weed)/drank a lot. I quit all of these though. Haven’t done X since high school and haven’t done coke in months and smoked weed in weeks and drank in a week or so. Even typing this now I cant think of why I’m so depressed but I just feel really dead and soulless. The only times I don’t feel this way is when I’m with friends because I don’t want to be the awkward sad kid and then when I’m with my boyfriend I am legitimately happy but that’s about it. I’m not as depressed as I was this summer when I was going to kill myself, I feel fine in that way but still feel pretty horrible.
This was in re: to a PM but I am sadly going to share this with everyone. I don’t want to but I think I need help. I’m in the shitter right now.

I ordered some bomb chinese food earlier and video chat with my boyfriend…made me feel a lot better. Thanks for my PM buddies.
I lived in Northern Alabama and then Atlanta while my now wife lived in Birmingham finishing up her college degree. I drove to Bham almost every weekend for 1.5 years I think it was before she finished school and we got married.

We are coming up on our 2 year anni and everything is going great so far.
Great to hear that halflife!

I know we will make it happen, it is not a long time…December actually but it will just be hard during the weekdays without each other. We’re just going to alternate going back and forth every weekend.
I can’t wait for tomorrow. Get to spend the night at his place for two nights.
ya i definitely dont believe in long distance anymore since that was the cause of my divorce
Back home now. I love him so much. We had such a great weekend.
We got to do what we always do together and it felt good, it felt like summer again.
Lift, eat big, go party, meet some new people, destroy some beer pong (5-0), then somehow walk back to his place and have some fun and go to bed.
He’s too nice.
*edit* Making a new thread…unrelated to my boyfriend.
So we’ve been alternating weekends, he visits me, I visit him, he visits me and so on. We only get two nights a week together though and he always wants to go out and party. I have no problem with this…I like to drink, party and whatever. But not like every day we’re together. We end up drinking at like 8 PM and then pass out at like midnight-3 AM depending on the night and we both wake up at like noon the next day at the earliest, hung over and then pretty much just shower/eat/do something little and start the whole cycle over again. I can’t wait until we live together so we can just RELAX. I want to have some lazy days together. Sit around on the couch and watch some movies, make some good food and sit down to eat, stuff like that. Maybe go mountain biking or snowboarding?

We don’t even get to have sex as much as I want because he always drinks way too much and ends up blacking out. If it was up to me it’d be at least once a day, haha kind of often or a lot I guess but we only hooked up once this weekend. Had sex on Friday but thats it besides some making out.

Probably sounds like I’m complaining or mad, I’m not…but I wish we weren’t so far apart so we could take some time for ourselves. Just like a simple day…wake up, have breakfast, go to class, get some lunch together, go back to class. Come home, watch TV, homework, lift, dinner, fuck, sleep. Rinse and repeat and I’d be a really happy guy.
We were just chatting on Skype…both of us are depressed/angry about something in our life right now so it was not that good of a conversation. We both miss each other and like each other but its hard to act happy when we both know the other person feels like shit. It made it feel like we felt like shit at each other but that’s not the case. BLEH. I can’t wait until this long-distance crap is over. What we need the most right now is to just relax and be with each other. I don’t know what I am to him, but he is practically my life right now…I think I actually love him. Yes, the L-word. We’ve only been together for like 4 months or so but I already know.
OMG sooo much in this thread to read!! I’ll post soon I promise!!

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I have asked her many times to come to AZ, offering to pay for 1/2 of a plane ticket (she tells me that she can’t come because either she has work or she can’t afford a plane ticket). I call/email and I never get a response. I asked her last year to come to AZ to spend Christmas with me, she declined. I asked again last month, and she won’t give me a straight answer.

The only somewhat explanation I have to this is that she is resentful towards me for the things I have done and accomplished. I know that sounds terrible. She has always made little "stabs" at me for things – getting married young, buying a house, going to school – almost as if she doesn’t want me to do the things that she wasn’t or isn’t able to do. I hate to think that this may be possible but I can’t think of anything else it could be.

I have asked her if I said or did anything to upset or offend her and she always says no chalking her absence up to being "busy with work"

Has anyone ever experienced anything like this or is my thinking out of line?
I could have written this myself about my own mom. I don’t know the reasons, I don’t know the answers and I don’t know what to do about it, but I understand what you’re dealing with. All I can say is it sure does suck and I’m sorry you’re in this too.
Do this, call her and say this:

Mom, i need to know why you are resentfull to me. I don’t believe you are busy and you are never giving me a straight answer to why you are acting this way towards me. (if she still says no say) Then why are you always ignoring me?

Seek the confrontation, and do not stop asking until you get to the bottom of this.

I’m so sorry you have to go through this as well, I know it sucks. However, thank you for sharing – I felt terrible thinking that a parent could be resentful but knowing I’m not the only one who is going through this makes it a little easier to digest.

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PS. what it does to people is just fucked up.

whatever it takes to make more and more money.. i agree its horrible

it preys on peoples hearts

I agree with you to a certain degree, but I can’t really say that I hate holidays. I’m just really not that into them anymore. I don’t take Christmas very seriously, and only really care about it because it’s one of the few times of the year that I know for a fact I’ll be home and will have a chance to spend time with family and friends. I do despise the commercialization of the holidays, but I just don’t want to make the effort to hate them.
Just try to ignore all the madness, and you’ll get through it fine. It always helps to have like-minded friends, especially on some of the more ridiculous occasions, like v-day.

it pissed me off when i wasn’t single as well, digs like this are not part of this sub forum, check it at the door.

Oh thanks for telling me how I feel. You should really read forum rules.

k, lemme check them out

mod edit: yes please check them out, it saves me a lot of deleting, remember that the Asylum is an emotional hide-out, which means we have to preserve eachothers emotional state of balance.

Welcome to growing up, when you realize holidays are just another day, there is no tooth fairy, santa clause isnt real, and jesus was black. I keep the mysticism regarding holidays like christmas alive for the kids, and hope they enjoy the holidays as much as I used to. No need to get all angry about it, its part of life.
The only reason I like holidays is because you get days off from work/school.

its how fucked up people get that pisses me off. I am tired of bullshit and the amount of stress. Don’t fucking tell me about growing up. I run two decent sized companies and work part time for another. I know about responsibility, blah blah blah. Still doesn’t change the fact that they are over commercialized bullshit.

Woah there buddy. I know you said you were got angry about holidays, and there were some pretty cheap shots in the begining of this thread (now deleted b/c they were way outta line), but chill out. I think okita was just trying to put some perspective on things – Yes, holidays blow and one of the reasons is that when youre an adult (like most of us are), theres no magic in it anymore. It happends to alot of people, and alot of people feel (at least some degree) of the way you do, so there’s no reason to let it get to you. You said yourself it was irrational…

It just seems like a useless exercise that attempts to make people happy and just ends up getting people pissed off or hurt. I didn’t come in here to be here to spoken down to like I was some kid who just realized there is no santa. I picked up on that one at the age of 5 or so. My major issue is that when these big things go down people lean on me to make sure things happen. Or people come crying to me about this and that. I get enough stress as it is and for all I can tell the only real motivation to have these holidays in this country is to sell shit.
I used to hate all holidays simply because most of them are based on bullshit.
But as I got older and nostalgia began to kick in, I learned to appreciate my childhood memories of the holidays and all the commercial and all the stupid stress involved began to fade away.

Now I just cherish the memories of my childhood and all the stress and cynical commercialism kind of fades into the background.
I don’t look at the negative. I just enjoy the celebration. Everyday is Valentines day to me, or Christmas, or Thanksgiving — but on those particular days, others are more conscious, so I can share it with them.
i’m kinda in-between on the subject. i generally dont like the holidays themselves (not all, just some) but i like the residual that stems from it.

for example, i hate the "commercialized" holidays of halloween, vday, and xmas; but i like the resultant days off and the general "feeling" of the day. say what you will about the holidays themselves, but there are very few occasions where a great mass of people just have that palpable energy that you can feed off of. essentially, it’s the "spirit" of the holidays that i like.

the funny thing is, i don’t even celebrate the majority of holidays. growing up, they were never heavily emphasized in my household, so i never put much stock in them (case in point, i stopped observing xmas in elementary school). however, i still like that feeling of being witness to something "bigger," even if i’m technically not a part of it.

see I had a bad childhood and it did not impress good memories of these holidays to begin with.

Same here. I had the best childhood

Well if you don’t have fond memories yourself, maybe you can at least take some solace in that you know it’s all bullshit.
Something a lot of people never find out.
I know I feel kind of wiser than people that rush out Christmas shopping for instance just to get some meaningless material junk.

Maybe this sounds corny but try find out what the holidays mean to you.
I like the holidays not because of what they signify, but it can make me become closer to my family and loved ones.

I know a valentines Day is a cynical ploy by malls to sell more shit, but if I can find a gift that has some sentimental and deeper meaning than just a Hallmark card and give it to my girlfriend, and she loves it , it makes me feel good and closer to her.
What I think is funny, is that no one makes you celebrate the holidays a certain way. Some of you say its "made for money" or a Hallmark holiday. Valentines Day was first celebrated in the 11th Century. The government didn’t "make" it. They might have commercialized on it, but the holiday still has a deeper meaning, just like Christmas. Many have turned them Hallmark, but why do you have to? Understand the meaning of the holiday, and if you don’t wanna give gifts and flowers and waste money, then just don’t. How simple! Just spend the day around the house with your SO, and celebrate the day for what it was meant to be. Same with Christmas. If you don’t like the worlds materialistic view of Christmas, then don’t celebrate it that way. Sit around your house and pray and talk about jesus being born.

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That would drive me nuts too.

Neither of us are the same person. We’re not even compatible as friends now. It made no sense to hold onto the past and I felt that’s what was going on whenever we talked.
So….what’s the problem? Stop analyzing this stroke of luck and enjoy life sans – ex.

she sent me this link as an "Air Force Test". said she found it addicting. i got a best of 9s, but i’m on a touchpad.

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i’ll start sort of near the beginning…
i had 2 serious girlfriends in high school. both relationships ended badly (for me) by them, my theory on why is i degraded into a pussy, they got into the power position and got tired of me. relationship 2 extended into college a little bit (we were at different schools though). after the second one ended, i’ve basically been involved with girls purely for sex, my emotions staying safely at home in a box on my bookshelf.

i go to school in the rural south, bible belt, etc. not a good match for me, its clearly not the school i should go to but i didn’t think it would matter what college i went to, and entropy (i think thats the word-tendency to keep doing the same thing) got the better of me and i never bothered to transfer. i was relatively unhappy most of the time, despite hooking up with girls and having a fair number of good friends. last spring i met this awesome girl, we immediately hit it off, have crazy amounts of shit in common, get along well, hook up frequently, quasi-dating, she tells me she wants to be my girlfriend. i declined because the summer was about to start and on top of that, after that semester she was transferring schools to one in california (oddly enough one i was accepted to).
so we stay in touch, visit back and forth a couple of times over the summer and christmas break, continue to hook up, etc.
this week i visited her out in cali and i just felt this "weird vibe", like something had changed between us.
i realized that this was the beginning of how my relationships had ended: i caught a bad vibe, i acted all mopey and like a huge pussy about it, causing the girl to become less and less attracted to me as my ‘alphaness’ (i dunno if you guys believe in that sort of thing here, but, whatever) declined, eventually, it ended. conscious of this, when on my visit i tried as hard as possible to act normal and cool like nothing was wrong (but i’m not entirely sure how well i did at that). if its relevant, we also hooked up on this visit, so, i assume i wasn’t being a total pussy.
now, for some absurd reason, i feel completely retarded for this girl, i can’t stop thinking about her, to the point where i wish i had never met her.

anyway now i’m back at home (taking this semester off to work because i finally felt like i needed a break from the school i hated) thinking about what i’m going to do this summer/next semester. and so my thought process is going like this "you like this girl, you don’t like where you are, go be where she is" but then my other thought process is going "hey retard, you only like her so much because you can’t have her/ feel like she doesn’t want you"…up until just now i was sure that if we were in the same place we would be dating with no problems. i consider this girl one of my best friends, but i think it would be hard (impossible?) to ever be "just friends".

worst part is, of course, talking to her about any of this is out of the question because it would totally tip my hand
advice?
after all the betting is done you gotta tip yer hand.
You visited her, got a bad vibe, turned into a pussy, and now you’re in love? It sounds like you’re attracted to something that you can’t have.

so what the fuck do i do?

You had your chance. Now she’s moved on. You should too

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My first semester went well enough, but my the middle of my sophomore year I had stopped caring about… anything? We had 12wk semesters, one spent on campus and the next spent working at a co-op. During the school terms, I didn’t study, didn’t go out, didn’t like myself or what I was studying. I stopped being able to read clearly and comprehend, it was like I was in a fog all the time. Reading and the imagination had always been an escape for me, but that was gone. When we would have parties at the house, some nights I would try to be social but many others I would just lock myself in my room with the lights off, shut the blinds, and pray no one would try come in while I thought about dying. Things are still cyclical though, the blackness would get worse around 3/4 of the way through the term and I’d be mostly fine (by comparison) during my work terms. This is around when I found the asylum and starting reading some of the links and stories in here as a way to figure out what the hell was going on with me. I failed out at the end of my Junior year and moved back home. I blamed the school, my prof’s, and myself for being lazy.

I’ve been seeing a girl for the last 2.5 years, met her in college and we’ve mostly kept things up long distance. Its more of a friendship than a relationship, we’re both free to see other people but usually get together every 2-3 months. She’s also been the first person to truly confront me about my black moods, been a caring shoulder to cry on, and ear that would always listen, and convinced me I needed to get help. The point at which I finally snapped came between christmas and new years, in a fit of self hatred and pity I went into the cabinet where I keep all my old pocket knives from when I was a boy scout and tried to cut my wrists. Fortunately I wasn’t a very good scout and they were no longer sharp, but the realization that I had actually pulled a blade across my veins with the firm assumption that they were sharp has had me terrified for the last 2+ months.

From early December to now, I’ve gone from happy about the future in which I think I’ve found my calling and finishing my first semester back in college with a 4.0GPA to brutally and at least at first, as much as it scares me to admit it, suicidally depressed to something in between. I hate getting out of bed in the morning, I haven’t been on time to work for nearly 6 weeks. I’ve lost my motivation for my classes, bailed on appointments to start my fieldwork, and avoided my first major paper. I’ve avoided writing my application essays to the two colleges I’m looking to apply to. I have a hard time falling asleep, anytime I lay down I think about death, dying, the finality of it all, how close I came to it, and how quickly life can be snatched away by disease, misdeed, or sheer accident. I’m tired of feeling this way, so I approached one of my professors on Monday who’s been an educator for 30+ years and was a counselor at several schools as well for a referral to someone she worked with. It was so hard to walk into that office and ask, I must have paced around the floor her office is on 5 times. Thinking about the people on here who’ve made the step, as well as what it means to my girl and myself finally pushed me in. She gave me a number to a doctor who’s office is near my house, and I worked up the nerves to call this afternoon to set up an appointment.
Good for you for making an appointment. You’re on the right track to getting help and eventually rising above this.

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