Are you stupid?
Skin on skin is where its at.

lookin to get pozzed up?

raw dogging is reserved for girlfriends and women that aren’t sluts for me.

still have STDs to look out for.

I don’t get it.
Why isn’t this a big deal?

We have a new choice.

Or is there some sort of feminist angle I am missing….

Well some people aren’t completely ignorant and also use their brain, instead of the "I’ll deal with a baby/disease later if it actually happens."

/thread
lol at paranoia about stis…. be careful and live life and have fun; dont let fear dominate your life. you can get aids walkin down the street if a hobo spits in your mouth.

ding ding ding!

pull n pray, pray n spay whatever ftmfw.

Ok the hobo would have to have fresh blood in his spit and you’d have to have an open sore/cut in your mouth for that to be even remotely possible… A used syringe is going to be more likely culprit when he attacks.

I agree with the worry of an STD though, I mean if you’re getting it to have sex with a bunch of people without a rubber then ya, not a smart choice. I want the male birth control simply so my girlfriend won’t have to go through all the side effects, and I can suffer.

I don’t think we are connecting.
If the chick has been taking birth control and can be counted on to have not missed her pill AND she is disease free and your wife or S.O. then you generally don’t need a condom.

So now it doesn’t have to be the chick, it can now be the dude.

People seem to be snobbing this off like it is… I don’t know what it is like. Like it is something worthy snobbing off.

This is a good thing.

Unless of course one has a agenda behind snubbing it off….

if they are hookers you will have a problem with strange partners. but as long as they are young theres lower risk (since theyve had less partners than they will when they are old)

Correct me if I’m wrong but…how do you know the OP’s gf is disease-free and/or taking BC?

orly?

no you can’t.
actually you can. there is a very small risk of transfer, but a risk, thru saliva
I’m no expert, but as far as I know that’s never happened. Unless there was some blood and an open cut or something.

Have you ever heard of a documented case of that happening w/out blood/open cuts?

If you have raw gums.

Whatever you do, do not take this advice. There is MORE sperm in the "precum" then in the actual ejaculation. And, a women CAN get pregnant from this.

If you know for a fact that you and your gf are disease free (through testing) and neither of you have other partners…well…I think it is a very nice gesture that you want to take the birth control instead. Not to mention you would not have to worry about her missing any doses or "trying" to get pregnant without your knowledge (I have seen this happen with insecure girl’s a lot..sadly).

I think you should research this medicine first, though, and be aware of any and all side effects that can happen. Speak to your doctor and make sure that it is the right medicine for you and then decide if you still want to take it.

Just keep in mind that it will not protect you from STD’s and you will be taking a big risk of contracting a disease IF your gf ever cheated on you (not trying to be a pessimist here just thinking logically.)

Knowledge is power and it is a wise idea to arm yourself with all the facts and possible outcomes of doing this before jumping into it.

thats the worst advice ive ever read; at least be honest.

thats like saying smoking pot once will leave you addicted and retarded for life

Your absolutely right…what the hell do I know? I’ve only been a nurse for 12 yrs…Do the "pull out" method and if she gets pregnant then it must be an "immaculate conception"

you said theres more sperm in precum than in ejaculate.

apparently you are a nurse in kansas and study intelligent design too

edit: OH SHIT !!! I WAS ALMOST RIGHT!! MISSOURI!!

If we knock the bottom 2 rows of counties off Iowa and give them to Missouri Both States avg IQ goes up!

Lol at that advice coming from a fucking nurse (from missouri no less)
Yeah so pulling out is cool then right, precum aint going to do nothin unless im superman

No…precum can most definitely get a girl pregnant. Stop listening to Yuppy Wear a fucking condom.

How about, whatever you do, don’t take THIS advice.

Studies have shown ~300,000 sperm in precum before… while there are in upwards of 5-10 MILLION in a given ejaculation.

Also, studies have shown that normal precum contains ZERO sperm so long as the subject has not recently ejaculated, or failed to urinate after his previous ejaculation.

Cliffs? Pulling out CORRECTLY (NEVER busting inside her, ALWAYS going ~24 hours between sexual encounters, and making sure to urinate plenty of times between them) is JUST about as effective at preventing pregnancy as a condom. 4% of women per year who practice the withdrawal method as stated above get pregnant in a given year. For condoms, that stat is about 2%.

Withdrawal is not the devil. I practice it with my GF at the moment until she can make it in to get on BC. Is there still a chance she will get pregnant? Yes. There is ALWAYS a change she will get pregnant. It’s not being a retard about it that HELPS you avoid that situation.

i will if you give me a link to something that says ‘pulling out is as effective as a condom’ + 0 sperm in normal precum

I’ve swore by it for years…. me n iwishyouwerebeer go back and forth on it all the time!

I would like to see this as well

I believe that you might have the rhythm method and early withdrawal techniques confused
And to contribute to the thread… there are still a lot of ongoing studies, mostly in animal model testing currently. I wouldn’t expect to see it being advertised on TV for some time, I would guess several years at best

For those saying that the woman should be on a birth control pill and that should solve the problem, don’t understand the impact of hormone therapies on the body. The whole advantage of this type of pharmaceutical birth control, is that it isn’t hormone based. It isn’t that men feel the need to compete with women for the ability to decrease their fertility. It is directed more towards the choices that a monogamous couple would have, to prevent pregnancy and hopefully have fewer potentially very serious side effects.
i just want to know if its out yet. shes on the pill but i’m still scared and she doesnt have any stds

Negative. It is not available at this time.

Are you wearing condoms?

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Well I started an engineering degree about 5 years ago and I am currently almost done with 6 classes remaining. However, starting in January I decided to do an 8 month work term 1000km away from home. I go back home in august then start school September and finish up in April 2009. I am currently working up in the mountains in BC in a little town of about 2000 people. It is a coal mine that I work at and pretty much all the employees are men. There are zero and I mean zero women here. That also makes it hard for me on this transition because when I left I was dating a girl and she was suppose to come down here and visit for a month in march. Well that feel through and she said that she felt we were going in opposite directions in life, which I do understand. This really added to my loneliness because she was one of my best friends. We still talk but that doesn’t make it any easier since I still have strong feelings for her. This isn’t the entire problem though, although it definitely doesn’t help.

The thing is that since I have worked here for these two months I am really starting to realize how much I don’t like engineering. The work isn’t that bad or anything I just generally don’t like what engineers do. I see some of the senior engineers up here and it seems like they just work their asses off and for what? Do they do it for the pay, because even then there are so many other jobs where the school is easier and the pay is better that they could be doing. They work their asses off so the company can flourish. Do they do it to support their families? Well there are other jobs that you could have passion for and like where you could still do this. I started to question as to why I actually decided to go into engineering and I came up with a conclusion. I figured I went into it because at the time I didn’t know what I wanted to do in life. I was really lost and just figured engineering was good because it was a solid and respectful position. Since being out here though a lot has changed. I realize that I would be miserable if I were to live this life. I have also become a little depressed with my situation as well because of where I am at in life right now. As I grew up throughout my life I pushed myself so hard to be the best at everything that I did. In school I always tried hard, in university I always tried hard, in sports I always pushed myself to be the most dominate player that I could be and I push myself every day to become a better person. While most my friends would be just coasting thru life, I would work my ass off every day. A lot of my friends would sleep in and go out on the weekends where as I would have to work on other things like jobs at this time and additional homework because I was too busy with school during the week for a job during the week. It seems as though I was living my life to compete with others and that hinder me in finding what I was truly passionate about in life. I wasn’t doing what I wanted to do. I didn’t like engineering but I didn’t want to be viewed as a failure so I pressed on. I pushed myself to the limit and for what. Just to finally realize once I am all alone with only my thoughts now to impress that this definitely not what I want out of life.

I am also a person who strives on self improvement outside of school. I do a word of the day every day to expand my vocabulary so I will have increased credibility in future business ventures or even debates among other peers. I research outside the realms of the media and forum unbiased opinions on topics throughout the world. I strive to understand real estate, investing, web design and poker, since I believe these are tools that will help me to become financially independent in the future by opening up my own business that I am truly passionate about. I read up on evolution and philosophy to help me understand life. These things interest me because they involve self improvement and that is what I find liberating. I don’t enjoy going to the bars anymore or playing drinking games because I am so obsessed with improving myself I see these things as a waste of time. I see all my friends do these things and I almost wish I could just be like them and find those things fun. That is the fact though, I don’t. However, I will still participate because that is what a majority of people do and I will just follow the commoners, at the same time though I will continue to push myself. I think that is what I did with school. I followed people because going to university was the successful thing to do, I just pushed myself into something just so I could be better it seems. And now, all my friends seem to be doing something they enjoy, with a good gf and here I am away from everyone and everything I know and working a job I just hate. It is depressing because what the hell did I put all that time and effort in for. I thought I was doing all this so I could be in a better spot than a lot of my friends in the future but now I feel that all the time I put in was a complete waste. I feel that the time I put in hasn’t put me in that much of a superior position at all. I worked my ass off and for what. To work at some mine up in the mountains? Sure I get to go snowboarding like 5 days a week and fishing and golfing but when you have no people you care about to share those activities with, they start to become trivial. I come home working during the day at a job that doesn’t challenge me and a job that I don’t find stimulating at all to an apartment that is empty and bland. Nights I will spend my time either snowboarding, reading or playing poker. Now, while being up here though I have realized some important issues and am starting to truly understand what I want out of life. I don’t want to be an engineer I would rather even be a teacher. I am very social and I can’t even communicate with any people at work because most of them are simple put, engineers. Another thing that bothers me is that by being up here I might be passing up opportunities to meet someone who I will want to spend my life with in the future. There is no way I am putting myself in a situation to meet people living in a small miners town. I see my friends moving in with their gf’s and getting married and then there is me, living in solitary all alone. Just makes me think what am I really doing up here, now that I understand I don’t want to do engineering is there any reason to continue on with my internship? Should I go home and work a summer job doing something I enjoy. I have never taken the time to actually do anything I enjoy. My jobs have always put me in a bad mood and im sick of it. What the hell for, if I am not passionate about my job then what else is there. I don’t have to support a family, I have realized all there is to know about this one specific job up here and I am feeling isolated and depressed.

Now, me and a buddy have decided and have had this mindset for the past couple years that we want to open up our own business. We are thinking of moving to Thailand to research everything we can, start websites and play poker to support ourselves because we both don’t want to be stuck in the 8-5 job of life doing something we aren’t passionate about. We want to open our own business and everything and find what interests us because we realize this is more important than having a shit load of money in the future. If your business flourishes then for sure you will make money, but even if it is mediocre and I am working like 12 hours a day in something I am passionate about I think I would be happier doing that with a friend then sitting at some desk as an engineer figuring out why something broke and trying to come up with a conclusion. So it isn’t like I don’t have any direction at all, but I just feel like I am wasting my time up here to prove something to myself and everyone else, I can do this. I know I can but if im not happy what im doing than why even bother. I feel I have learnt everything I can from the job so why not go home for the summer and just do something I enjoy for once? I could spend the day reading about business and about webdesign and then just work a partime job at a golf course or something. I think it would do me a lot of good because I have never done anything that I truly wanted to do.

What do you guys think? Can you show me some pros and cons and help me in my decision making process. I don’t want you guys to make my decision but rather maybe help me see something that I can’t.

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Well, first off, congrats on getting yourself in a sticky situation. You shouldn’t of had been sleeping with her — especially — because she’s engaged to someone.

But all said and done, you’re in the situation you’re in. What you should probably do if she doesn’t want to get a paternity test is in fact get an attorney. The paternity test can be done before or after the baby is born. (OMG, technologiz!)

One of the reasons why you want to do it before hand is because the other potential father can just sign the birth certificate and he will have legal rights to the child and NOT you. Yes, you can also fight this in court.

You have the parental right to see your child, and for this, you will have to go to courts especially if they’re going to fight you every step of the way.

But you should think about a few questions:

Will you be able to actually help provide for this child?
Will you be able to help pay that child support?
How are you financially?

The paternity test might hurt the finance but in all honesty, you all need to know. You all have the right to know who’s child it is and she can believe all she wants that it is her fiance’s but she doesn’t know herself.

So yes, get yourself a good attorney.
My advice?

Don’t fuck a married woman or a woman getting married.
if i was the fiance you wouldn’t be breathing anymore. count your blessings and move on
Congrats on stepping up to find out if the kid is yours. I had a scare and waited 2 years before i even saw the kid… one look and i knew it wasnt. thank god.

If I were you I would get a lawyer, or just ask them to agree to let you get a paternity test. being at the birth, well, thats really a personal decision…. how important is it to you? you i wouldnt want to be in the room anyway, so just make your way to the hospital afterwards.
If i were that other guy, I’d have you get a paternity test, make you pay child support if it was yours, and not let you have anything to do with MY wife…

Anyways…go in assuming worst case scenario. The kid could be yours, you may have to pay child support, and you may not be allowed to see the kid.

And holy shit, next time avoid being scum and sleeping with someone who is fucking engaged….and wrap that shit up EVERY time unless you know you are with someone who you are completely committed to, is completely committed to you, and definitely know the two of you want to have a child.

Finally…don’t expect much sympathy from people about this if it is yours.
And know, you WILL BE PAYING CHILD SUPPORT even if you have split custody

especially to this white trash jerry springer family that is being created…. a guy still marries a woman, after she gets preggers with another dude( maybe) and he knows about it!!! fucking FAIL for all parties (cept maybe TC)

Hopefully the fiancee will redeem himself and leave her if it turns out the baby is the TC.

I don’t care if the fiancee wants a baby…if you’re trying to conceive with a woman, and she fucking CHEATS on you….no fucking way.

TC, were they trying to have a baby when/before you entered the picture?
That woman is evil and should be burned at the fucking stake.

True…but he’s also the idiot who slept with her knowing she was engaged.

I want to know why she did it, why she allowed this to happen. If I was her Fiance I would want a paternity test and I would pray it wasn’t mine so I could be done with her.

I think at the end the relationship is just going to go down the shitters. Baby or not.
I don’t agree that some of you are blaming the OP…

The woman had just as much responsibility in this as the OP does…

They both knew she had a fiance and was getting married…

I just don’t understand the female mind as to why she would sleep with the OP, then break up with her boyfriend/fiance, then after 5-6 months get back together with her ex-bf/ex-fiance…? That just baffles the shit out of me…
They dont want you in their lives, cant blame them, move on
I don’t want to be in their lives either. But if the baby is mine I would like to be a part of her(the babies) life. They are inducing april 18th!! I’m so anxious to find out. Yes she was already engaged before we hooked up. We are now at a point where we don’t even really speak and the only sort of communication i have with her is through threatening text messages from her fiance. threatening to beat my ass, daring me to come to the hospital. It’s a HUGE mess. I’m not going to start shit. But I do want to step up and be in that girl’s life if she is mine….. It would be on my concious forever and I can’t handle shit like that.

She’s just as stupid as you for allowing yourselves to have sex (unprotected) while she’s engage.

In any case, if you want to really know, take care of it right now. That way when she pops out, they can tell you.

Well, good luck if the kid is yours. You’re going to need it — especially if you’re going to fight for parental rights.
I know it is stupid for both of us to have unprotected sex. She was really weird about that. She begged me not to use a condom on several occassions. I might just be dreaming here but she was on fertility drugs at the time because she was told her and her fiance couldn’t have a child… i am kind of thinking she might not of wanted me to use a condom because she wanted a child so bad. I’m playing devil’s advocate i know. but it’s just a thought. i think I’ll’ talk to an attorney tomorrow.
Sounds like that girl is messed up big time.

Any idea other than that as to why she slept with you?
this forum is just becoming so negative. unless anyone has a time machine where he can go back and NOT have sex with her maybe y’all should not be so rude? What’s done is done…he is asking advice on the present.

get a lawyer…because I seriously have no idea what you should do, but if you want to be in the kids life you need to have proof. On the other hand, if you dont care, let them do what they are going to do because if the fiance is on the birth certificate you’re pretty much off the hook financially.

Wow…and you still slept with her? Holy hell

This is what I am trying to understand as well. If you are dating, engaged, or married, you shouldn’t blame the single guy looking for quickie 100%. I would be more upset with the person who is in a relationship.

This just sounds sounds messed up, but In My Honest Opinion, its a good thing you are trying to figure out if you are the father and if so, trying to play the part.
Good job on the sticky situation. Immense kudos for trying to step up.

Get a lawyer, get an order for a paternity test NOW before the fiance puts his name on the birth certificate [edit] when the baby is born.
She is engaged to her boyfriend of 5 years and decides to sleep with you not once but numerous times??? The fiancé still wants to be with her regardless of the fact that the child she is carrying may not be his??? You get a smack in the face for involving yourself with her but a nice pat on the back for stepping up and taking responsibility for the child if its yours. I hope your financially and mentally stable to be a father. What is most likely going to happen, because at this point nothing will go right, you will be the father, fiancé will flip out every time he sees you, physical altercation might occur, he will finally snap back to reality and leave the bitch. So since their "family" is fucked you need to be the one constant stable thing in her life. Kids are great and they will change your life for the better.
My real advice is don’t sign the birth certificate and don’t let the finace sign the birth certificate UNLESS you know which one is the father. You don’t want to be financially and legally tied to a child that IS NOT yours.

If thats really the case and you arent interested in all the drama, you better be serious enough to try and get custody. If not let them give the girl a life, you would be ruining it by trying to visit on occasion.

Stepping up and doing the right thing would be to let the girl grow up in a normal family. Think of yourself as a sperm donor and nothing more.

It’s just suspicious to me. It seems like in a way you want her back. If the bf has made threats to you, do you really think it’s worth risking your life over this?

Stick to posting your unhelpful and fucking worthless replies in the vag.

To the OP, I can’t judge you on your past decisions because I wasn’t in your boots, but as others have said, seek legal advice and resolve who the actual father is as soon as possible…

And if the baby is yours then I wish you all the best for wanting to take responsibility for the child’s sake.

This is very true. Let her grow up in a ‘normal’ family. If you still want to find out if the kid is yours, do what you need to do but remember that passing a baby around back and forth is going to cause issues and more problems for you, the child, and the mother in the future. This can be said because of how they’re treating you right now (and I honestly don’t blame them if what you’re saying IS the full story).

I disagree i think stepping up and finding out who the real father is doing the right thing. I would love to be a part of her life also. I can’t think of myself as a sperm donor i think of myself as a potential father. I believe that is the correct thing to do. I have an older brother who is a "sperm donor" for 3 kids. We went to pick them up from their mother when they were around 2 and 4 years old. They had no idea who any of us were. They were TERRIFIED. I don’t want my child to go through that. I want to her to know I’m her father.

No I don’t want her back. Her bf isn’t going to do anything. He just talks a lot of shit.

Well, good luck then. I don’t know what you want us to tell you.

I hope you aren’t secretly hoping to get back with her because I wouldn’t be surprised if a few months down the road, things don’t work out with her and the fiance, and she’ll want you back in her life especially if the child is indeed yours.

You said it was stupid for you to have unprotected sex w/her. It was even more STUPID for you to have sex with her period. She was in a serious relationship and trying to get pregnant with somebody else. I do give you a lot of credit for wanting to take responsibility of the child if it is yours but I don’t get the sense that you truly grasp how badly you fucked up.

Wouldn’t that part of your reply count as the same thing?

Also, to the TC:

Considering she has bounced around between the two of you before, be prepared for it to happen again. If the child is not yours, DO NOT put up with this, if she comes back to you if things go badly with her fiancee, do not take her back.

The absolute best thing you could do if the kid is not yours is to get the heck away from this situation entirely, and never come back.

thanks for the advice/opinions. That’s all I’m looking for. Just other avenues to explore.

I was thinking the same thing.

My further point would be that kind of mistake on his part needs to be pointed out countless times to the OP himself and to others so hopefully they don’t make the same mistake in the future.

Honestly I’m torn on how to feel about this. I to find it noble that you really want to know if the kid is yours so you can be a father to him/her…but I’m thinking if it is in fact the OP’s child I don’t really know what’s worse-finding out you are the result of your ignorant mother’s affair (who stayed with her original mate), or being raised by the guy who wasn’t your biological father maybe to find that out later in life after they most likely divorce. Either way, I feel bad for the kid.

No shit. OP didn’t have a commitment to anyone. The biggest douchebag in this scenario is the fiance for getting back with the girl when he isn’t even certain that baby is his.

I would definatley urge you to get a lawyer. If you indeed turn out to be the father than you have rights.
I like how everyone is quick on giving him advice on what he should do after he already did it. As if this isn’t a big enough sign to prevent it happening in the future.

It just sounds more arrogant than honorable to me. You’re only thinking of yourself and the child and not the other two parties involved. Even if you are the child’s birth father, if those two stay together and get married, you’ll never be a real father to her. The best that you can hope for is to confuse the hell out of her.

You never know Look at Killumnati still going after married chicks. Some people never learn.

I think you need to know if you’re prepared to be a father, financially and physically. I agree with you only because the child always seems to find out when they’re older. Secrets this big are hard to keep, even if she gets older and looks nothing like her parents. Its your decision but once the truth is discovered, there is no taking it back. You’re in it for the good and bad times. It WILL be frustrating raising a child that lives 4 days a week at another mans house.
That’s my brother (uptown josh) he is a fuckign idiot hahahah I rag on him to this day about this. Good luck with a kid bro. he’s the same dude that was hitting that chick w ith no condom who’s "been with over 40 dudes" that I posted about in the Vag. Get a std test bro!!

It’s not really that cool or even mature to make fun of your brother’s foolish choices. You should be helping him learn to make better decisions.

And really…from your threads, you need the same lessons.

He slept with an engaged woman, you had an affair with a married woman…so what gives you the right to talk like you’re any better than him?

Who cares about the other two parties? All that should matter is the child at this point – the other two have obviously proved their "worth."

And who’re you to say he’ll never be a "real" father? For all you know, they’ll divorce and then the kid will be out not one, but two fathers. I think it’s great he wants to be part of the child’s life.

To the original poster, though: you better fucking be the best person you can be to this child, or you will fuck the poor kid up.

To be honest if I was in the guy’s shoes I’d do the same thing. The couple’s lives are just as important as the bastard child’s though. Looking at it from their perspective, I’d appreciate that he’d step up to offer support and to be a father, but it should be my choice to turn him down.

Thanks!! I appreciate that post. EXACTLY my point all I am worried about is the child. I think she has a right to know her biological father and if that happens to me I’ll do my best. I will be the best fuckin father I can to this kid. I want to step up and take full responsibility for my foolish actions. I would never advise anyone to get into a situation like this. It has been hell for 8 months!! They are inducing in 16 days!!! I’m so anxious and ready for this to be over with. I will definetely update. I’m sure there will be more drama before then!!!

Wrong. It should be the child’s choice to turn him down, when it’s older.

It should only be your choice to turn him down if he’s truly unfit to be a father and not just an inconvenience to your life.

Wait…I’m confused. Are you the possible father or is Uptown Josh? I thought you were his brother and he was the maybe-father….

fake drama
Everyone that writes stuff like "You shouldn’t be so stupid and have sex with a engaged woman" etc should just shut up.

My brother was logged on my computer I didn’t notice. definately not fake!!

How funny. I was just using you as an example in his thread!

Of course you two are brothers…

this has maury show all over it, this guy will not get paternity test, neither will the husband&wife, in 5 years that baby will look nothing like the husband, he’ll leave the bitch… and THEN she’ll sue for child support & paternity test of the OP

I called DHS. They said the best thing to do is wait until the baby is born. I can then fill out an application give them 25 bucks and they will subpoena her to get a paternity test. I am going to go that route. I’m not even going to tell the girl I’m just gonna surpise her with a subpoena.
So let me get this straight…Both you and your brother specifically go after women who are married or taken with no remorse?

Explain why? Do you want this to be accepted by society? I sure dont.

At least have the decency to inform her that you are going to get a paternity test.

it’s her baby too.

why be remorseful. if you really love someone you should want them to be happy, even if that means them cheating on you (not that i’d ever put up with that)

fuck that.

huh?

wat

I’ve told her a thousand times I want a paternity test. She pretty much says "if I feel like it I might later on" She’s being a bitch about this for sure. She won’t give me a definite answer. I’m just going to stop contact with her and get that subpoena served. I’ve tried the nice guy route over and over. It doesn’t work with her. Why should I tell her I’m subpoeaning her??

YOU SHOULDNT

Listen to an Asshole like me for once in your life. I’m an asshole most of the time because most of the time I speak from my experiences in the world. That experience gives me confidence in my belief that I am right.

Just do it.
just say "Listen bitch, the kid could be mine and I want to know if it is or not, if you’re not going to do a paternity test by me just asking you then it’s going to be a pain in the ass for the both of us because im going to talk to a lawyer and have this forcefully done"

That should do it

LOL. Are you and I the only ones who are ???

In for BAN!

shut the fuck up
ok my bro must have posted under my username by mistake we share a computer and I just keep the stay logged on box checked.

Sorry for ragging on him in here but he’s my brother and I do it all the time he made a dumb move. All of our friends let him have it big time.

I feel like i am not the one who is committed so I don’t really feel any remorse if I don’t know the dude or anything… Wouldn’t do it to a friend though. But I think our opinion differs on this.

If someone have multiple identities and is making up BS stories on here, they ought to be banned.
Did I mention I’m 24 and this girl just turned 19?? I talked with her Aunt tonight. She sympathizes with me. She is going to talk to her.

I hope some day you do feel remorse for your actions.

Because it isn’t helping this situation.

Have i said that?

Wow, this shit just gets better and better

I’ve given up hope on the human race honestly.

you’re boned.

This is why I always tell people to be super careful about sex. Unless yu know you absolutely want to have a baby with someone, do everything in your power to prevent pregnancy. I don’t care what she says (regarding being on BC, not wanting to use it, liking the feeling of it raw better), no matter what, use a condom every time. No way in hell am I not taking every precaution I can. Because what it comes down to, is I only really know what I do, not what SHE does.

It only takes one time of not being careful to completely turn two people’s lives upside down. In this case, it’s three people, at least until the baby’s father is known.
You need to demand a paternity test.
I am not sure what legal rights you have to demand a test (talk to a lawyer) but it is such an important thing that you NEED TO DEMAND IT.

Here is the lowdown.
There is a type of law, I don’t know what it is called, it is a state law and is different depending on what state you live in.
This law says that if a man doesnt challenge paternity after a certain period of time (can be a year in some states and many years in others) THAT MAN IS LEGALLY THE FATHER AND IS NO LONGER ABLE TO FIGHT IT WITH A PATERNITY TEST.

At the exact second circumstances are in your favor. She is with the fiance and he is acting like the dad. If the period of time that your state requires goes by and the circumstances stay that way then he will be the legal dad even if you are proven to be the bio-dad later.

But….

If she changes her mind at any point the winds could push this thing to fall on your lap.

You need to learn about this law in your state, make a photocopy of it and approach her.
Say to her, ‘Hey if I am the babies Dad then I will do everything legally and morally I should do as the babies Dad. But if I am not this law concerns me. We need a paternity test for MY peace of mind.’.

This may be one of the most important things you do in your entire life.

Read my post, the joke may not be on the OP…..

I have got to find out what that law is called.

If they don’t learn from their mistakes the first time they’re probably not going to listen to some person online bitching at them for the mistake they’ve made the first time.
This is the Asylum guys..either give the kid advise or get the fuck out. He’s already going through a shitty time and this is suppose to be the place you get to go for help not to feel more like garbage.

Good luck kid. Hopefully she’ll do the right thing and will want to know who the real father of her kid is.

.

There are loads of people here who gives crap to people and then when they later ask for advice themselves and get the same crap they freak out.
A few of them posted in here, you know who you are.
Then again, this is a forum on internet, it’s very few who walk their talk.
UPDATE..
Well I found out today she actually had the baby last thursday 4/3/08. She didn’t even have the decency to tell me. I am BEYOND mad. I called her phone and her bf answers. He asked me why I was calling. I said I wanted to see about the baby. He said it was none of my business and to never call this number again or there would be consequences. I told him to fuck off. He hung up. They are giving me such a hard time. DAMN.

It’s probably not even yours.

Get a lawyer, get a paternity test. Don’t talk to them unless it’s through your lawyer. Update us when you get the results.

OP, if you find out after everything the child isn’t your will you continue you try and talk to the girl?

That, indeed, would be the epitome of "lesson not learned."
uptown josh’s brother signing in:

Get this josh just got a call from the Sherriff’s deputy saying they got a call from the boyfriend saying that josh is harrassing and threatening him and if he comes to the house he will press charges for trespassing.

What a bitch. That’s some bullshit.

maybe.. maybe not. But I still want to know.

HELL NO!!

Do you guys not realize why you two have really no justifiable reason to complain about this shit?

You got yourselves into it…so stop complaining, do what needs to be done, and move on.

Bitching and moaning about it will solve NOTHING, and may give you a bad attitude which is not going to help your image when dealing with the lawyers and other legal people.

Face it, the bf is going to hate josh, because he either got his gf pregnant, or she cheated with him.

Stop focusing on her. You can’t do squat about her. Since you are family, you CAN help out your brother (and yourself) and seriously try to figure out why you you two get yourselves into such fucked up situations.

I plan to.

I bet its neither one of theirs

haha wouldn’t it be something if it turns out to be another different race entirely!!

you should read the book Sperm Wars by Robin Baker. It will open your eyes…
UPDATE:

I know this is an old thread but i just wanted to let everyone know I’m NOT a father. After much waiting the paternity test was finally done.

A little twist she is back at work now. As part of my job I have to work with her. She has apologized for everything. As long as I’ve known her this is the only time she has said she was sorry. She says a lot of the correspondence was her boyfriend writing emails to me. I have accepted her apology partly because I have to work with her 6+ hours a day and partly because I think she is genuinely sorry about how the situation turned out. We are actually getting along better than we ever have as just friends nothing more. This didn’t turn out so bad.

DO NOT let this turn into more…again.

Yay, you aren’t the father

we really need a "you are not the father" dancing smiley
Sooo uhhh.. did they do a parternity test on the fiance? Is he the father or they just did it on you? I’d feel so bad if I knew they did it on just you and they’re assuming its the other guy but it might not be at all.. I mean, hell, if she could cheat on a 5 year relationship, get with a guy she works with, gets knocked up.. whats not to say she didn’t fool around with other dudes?

That’s exactly what I did ran around screaming hell nah I’m not the Pa!!

Just the fiance. It came back > 99.9999% or something to that effect saying it was his. I’ll take those odds!

I don’t plan on it. I’ll admit I’m a very forgiving person though. My friends and family think I’m crazy for forgiving her. But I feel it’s the right thing to do. Feels a lot better than holding a grudge for months! I blame it on immaturity on both of our parts and carelessness. She’s grown up a lot since having the baby. I’m happy, she’s happy, the fiance is happy, we are all happy!

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I am 20 years old. Yesterday night 2 guys came over my our house to see my sister after my parents left. One of them was 19 and the other was 18. I REALLY felt like something bad was happening here and I wanted to kick them out. But I didn’t since nobody else in my family has said anything about it. What should I do next time?
My sister went on bc when she was a teen but it was to regulate her period. She definitely didn’t hang out with 20 year old dudes when she was 15. Eww.

I agree with you that’s messed up.

It sounds to me that while your mom got knocked up when she was young, she’s trying to prevent your sis from having the same thing happend to her by putting her on BC. You seem to think that by putting her on BC, your mom and dad (by omission) are giving her the go ahead on having sex….I dont see it this way…I mean, if she is having sex, and your parents cant really stop it, the least they can do is keep her from getting pregnant. Think about what might happen if they just say "Just dont have sex"….I’m sure that would work out great.

This, on the other hand, may be something your parents/you can do something about. Dude, there were guys in your house that you didnt want there. As the only adult in the house, you have the right to say who can be there and who cant. Next time this happends, kick them out. If your sis complains to your parents (which I doubt will happen) just ask her what the hell she’s doing having 18/19 yr old dudes over w/o your parents home/knowing whats going on…
i went on birth control when i was 15 better safe than sorry, IMO.

you can be in denial about your kids being sexually active and pretend like if she’s not on birth control then she’s not having sex, but that doesn’t work so well when she gets pregnant at age 16. your mom is probably trying to protect her from getting pregnant at a young age. yes, i think it’s a bit inappropriate for her to be hanging out with lots of older guys, but at least she’s not going to get knocked up.

So its messed up that a 15yr old girl is trying NOT to get pregant? WTF?

Pretty sure the only messed up thing in the situation is the fact that she’s hanging out and possibly sexually active with men 5 years older than her at the age of 15. She’s still a kid.
With the whole going on birth control thing…there are various reasons why it is a good idea…obviously prevention of pregnancy, but also regulation of periods and hormones. So that, you’re overreacting about.

Now, as far as the older guys coming over….TALK TO YOUR PARENTS! Don’t make a thread about it on a message board, go to your parents and tell them what happened. Say something like "Hey, I don’t think this is an appropriate thing to do while you guys are gone".
So, you WANT her to get knocked up?

Also, ignore it and bail out of that house. Go to college, then graduate/medical training, and then they can all go f themselves.

Sure it’s messed up but not nearly as messed up as being completely oblivious to the fact her 15 year old daughter is regularly getting poked by 20 year olds. She obvioulsy doesn’t want the cycle to continue and well, sometimes you just can’t tell a teenager something is wrong to do because they’re going to do it anyways.

I’m actually glad the mom took some steps instead of sticking her head in the sand. It’s not perfect, far from it but at least the mom is acknowledging the fact her daughter is getting laid and is probably retarded about birth control as most teenagers are.

. I don’t see the big deal. I went on BC when I was 15. Better to be have safe sex than run around having unprotected sex. Let’s be honest, if she wants to have sex no amount of wrist slapping and telling her NOT to have sex is going to work. At least the mother is going about this is a responsible manner. It’s just the nature of teenagers these days.

Edit: As for the 20 year old men, that’s a whole separate issue and needs to be addressed as such.
would you rather her be on BC or rely on her or her partner using condoms? the girl is going to have sex whether anyone wants her to or not so she might as well make sure she’s not going to be knocked up

sounds like you’re just pissed because your little sister is getting dick.
Better she’s on birth control instead of fucking guys without a condom or BC.

Weren’t you having sex with that girl without a condom?

her having sex with people 4-5 years older than her is a completely separate issue. Fact is, if she’s having sex, being on BC is better than not being on it.

I hope they’re still using condoms tho

or just call the cops and tell them two adults are in your house with you and your 15 year old sister, and you’re not sure what’s going on
Kids these days are getting more and more "mature" younger and younger. I personally don’t think its that weird to see a 15 year old on BC. I work at victorias secret, and I see many girls her age or younger come in to buy sexy panties and outfits.

I think you should realize that your sister is not a child anymore, shes getting older. You should be happy that she is atleast using BC, and hopefully using condoms. As an older brother, I would just talk to her about being safe, and talk to your parents about who she hangs out with. In the end, it’s your parents decision and not yours about that stuff.

I would personally just try to encourage her to BE SAFE, and be supportive and understanding of her. I love my brothers because they are there for me and someone to confide in when I can’t talk to my parents about certain issues. Tell her she can come to you about things, and she won’t be judged. It will probably give you a better relationship. I know it did with my brothers.
That sucks and is really messed up. But she’s obviously sexually active anyway so getting her on BC was the right thing to do. If I were you I would be supportive and talk to her about condom usage. Sometimes kids that age are embarrassed about getting them or don’t know where to get them, so maybe you can help out that way. It sounds crazy but she’s not this innocent little girl in your mind anymore, so you have to face and deal with reality accordingly instead of trying to force her into being someone she’s not. It sucks that she’s fucking 19/20 year olds. I mean that is illegal isn’t it? But it’s better to do it in her own home than some other random place.
As a parent, I have to be realistic. Teenagers (even younger now days) are going to have sex if they want to no matter what a parent does to try to prevent it. Seriously, when I was in high school we had people getting caught IN school having sex.

Knowing this, the only defense I feel I have in protecting my kids is education and making sure they are using the proper protection.

My bf has full custody of his 15 yrs old daughter and she looks at me as a mom. After discussing it with my bf (making him fully aware that if she is going to have sex she will do it no matter what we say) I took her to planned parenthood got her on BC pills, got her started on the HPV vaccinations, and instructed her how to put a condom on a guy and made sure she had some in her purse because she should never trust him to have protection and she should make sure she is always protecting herself.

However, I have also educated her on not only the physical risk but also the emotional risk associated with having sex.

So, I completely understand why your mom has put her on BC pills and think that was a wise decision.

As far as the older guys coming to the house….TELL YOUR PARENTS!!!!!!
I would be IRATE if this sort of thing went on behind my back when we left the house. You are 20 yrs old and have every right to kick these guys out of the house, at the very least (if your parents have a cell phone) call them and tell them these guys are at the house and let them come back and bust your sister and kick these guys out.
Or how about as a parent you raise the girls to respect themselves enough to not have sex at 15? Damn thats a crazy concept isn’t it?

That is such a stupid argument. "oh if they are going to have sex anyways". Your kids are going to use drugs, why not provide them with clean needles? LOL

You need to give your children goals and focus. Being in situations, where a 15 yr old girl is having sex should not be acceptable. At 15 you should be focused on school, sports, or whatever else you are passionate about. Stay classy America.

regardless, if she’s having sex, it’s better she’ s on BC than not

Although I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having sex at 15, I’d encourage my child to wait a bit longer.

But this girl is already having sex. Good luck with trying to make her stop.
I’ve heard the way these guys talk to my sister and her girlfriends. They are all white kids from the suburbs, but they say shit to each other like "don’t trip", "why you gotta play me like that", and other things that stupid people say. The guys call them all "bitches", and tell them to "shut yo mouth ho". They dress like gangsters too. They also tell her how they are gonna fuck her in the ass later. She is part of an uneducated crowd. They are all morons, and they are all going to end up as white trash.

So yeah, raising your kids to have some self respect would be the best solution. My parents failed.

I don’t love my sister or anyone else in the family, so I’m really not going to do anything about it. It’s just gross to watch these older losers hanging out with young girls because girls 18-20 years old actually know that those guys are fucking homos. And it’s unbelievable how my sister and her retarded little friends actually seem to enjoy being treated like "hoe’s" and being told to shut the fuck up. Idiots. I’m gonna bail on this trash family as soon as I have enough money saved up.
no. She definitely got it because my mom doesn’t want her getting pregnant at a young age like she did.

I am SOOOOO glad I don’t have you for a brother. Hearing that, I honestly feel bad for her, and I don’t think you made this thread to try and help her.

She has probably came from a shit family, which includes you. So no wonder she has no self respect. And you aren’t helping her out or giving it to her. In a girls life, an older brother is usually a VERY respected and good thing to have. They are there to protect, to help their sister out when they need it, to be there to listen, and to make sure no bad shit happens.

You are a failure of that.

*I’m sorry to be so rude, but the poster was acting like he was concerned, and then making a post like that proves it wrong. And it’s very upsetting to me, the poor girl probably doesn’t know anybetter..

and that’s a bad thing?

No, I meant I agree with him that it’s messed up that a 15 year old is hanging out with 20 year old guys, not that she’s on bc. As I said, my sister was on bc as a teenager, too.
It’s clear she needs more guidance, but I’m glad she’s on birthcontrol, the situation could be worse. Pregnant by a 20 year old at 15/16, that is bad news.
The BC wollah, but the Parents not doing enough in terms of education. I think the word ‘mature’ is totally incorrect placed in this context. Fucked up is more like it. I know my father would have smashed those 20 year olds into the ground, and showed every corner of the house to that 15 year old lady , just to make it clear that its not ok to get knocked up by random 20 year olds. Cares not to use violence if it prevents her from falling into a greater misery.

These guys are just thinking ‘we can get some easy pussy here’, they knock her up and then leave her.

Parents are supposed to protect their children against predators, and i am not seeing it happening here. You shouldn’t allow these messed up situations in your life. If you let it slide your just giving the green ‘go ahead and mess up my life’ signal, with all the bad consequenses attached to it.

he has stated in his most recent post that he doesn’t care about her.

Well that’s the problem, he ‘should’ care, instead of letting everything fall apart. People need to step up and stop a messed up situation, not letting it continue to go out of control.

I see it like this, if the faucet in the kitchen is leaking, you can just let it go and fill up the entire house with water (troubles) or you can immediatly try to fix it from escalating into a bigger problem, and doing the latter is definitly the better of the two ,instead of just ‘shrugging’ it off saying ‘oh golly what a mess, running away and letting the situation escalate.
You already know shes getting banged like a screen door in a hurricane. We were all that age once, and we all know what teenagers do when mommy and daddy aren’t home. Hell I did it even when my parents were home when the door was open. Guys that age do not stick around unless they are getting something out of it, and I am sure they are.

and

its possible to both teach kids to wait AND provide them with BC. my parents raised me that i should wait til marriage. but also told me that if i was thinking about having sex, to let them know so they could help me get on the pill. i waited until i was older and then got on the pill by myself. unlike my friends, who parents raised them to wait until they were married and offered them no alternatives (they all had sex and got pregnant btw)
It’s the same with drinking. You can’t stop kids in high schools these days from drinking, but you CAN educate them about the dangers, and teach them to be responsible.

My mom always told me and my brother: "I don’t want you to drink while you’re in high school, but if you ever do, don’t be afraid to call for a ride home."

In other words, you want to teach your kids to wait and be safe, but you don’t want to make them so scared of punishment that they won’t turn to you for help.

Call the cops and have them arrested for statutory rape if you know they are 18 and older and having sex with your 15 year old sister. That should learn them

.

That’s how my parents raised me. I’m 20 now and getting plenty from a long term relationship that will most likely turn out to be awesome in the future.

No idea why people think that kids NEED SEX OMG at a young age. Of course they’ll be horny as fuck but need some decent priorities set at the age of 15.

Yep, I was raised the same way. I’m now doing pretty well. It’s the ones that either didn’t have parents that cared or did it on the sly that had the issues.

The whole age of consent is just a social construct anyway. Who is to say a 14 year old in NZ is old enough to give consent when a 16 year old in the US isn’t?

you joined 3 years after I did. You stole my name
my cousin and I are 12 days apart. (both girls).

when I turned 14 my dad took me down to the gyno and put me on BC.
my uncle did not take my cousin.

my cousin now has a 5 year old (we’re 20), and I have a life and am getting a college education.

I wasn’t even sexually active until I was 18 and out of HS, but by then I’d been on BC for 4 years.

BTW, I also hung out with much older guys when I was in HS (when I was 15/16 I dated guys that were 18-20 that went to the colleges nearby), and never had sex with any of them. Then again, the guys you’re describing sound much different than the ones I dated…

Just try to be a positive influence on your sister, if she likes hanging out with older people, take her out with you and your (responsible) friends, where you can keep an eye out. Nothing wrong with surrounding her with decent people.
… that is if you care (you saying you don’t love her is terrible)

We do teach our children self respect and on the importance of abstinence…however, no matter what you TRY to teach your kid’s they are going to do whatever they want with or without your approval.

It would be my greatest joy if my kid’s wait until they are much older to have sex. I have to realize as a parent that it is up to me to not only teach them self respect but also how to protect themselves because I am not always going to be by their side 24/7.

Plus, part of growing up is making mistakes and hopefully learning from them. I would certainly prefer my children be on BC, get HPV vaccinations, and use condoms to at least protect themselves from more serious consequences from their actions (STD’s and/or pregnancy). Sometimes as a parent we not only have to protect our kid’s from other people but also themselves!!!!!

That’s a horrible thing to say. You as her brother seeing your sister in a situation like she is in now should try to stand up for her. I say stand up for her because she could not really be knowing what she’s getting into given that she is still so young. You should still try to help her with what you see she’s doing wrong. The whole BC thing isn’t so messed up but the fact that your parents don’t seem as if they’re really explaining things to her or anything just like "Oh here have sum BC" and that’s it is kinda… I don’t know. Like they’re just trying to prevent something rather than educating your sister.

Even though you might not agree by how your family is taking this situation they’re still your family and you saying "I’m gonna bail on this trash family" is awful. You are putting yourself in no more of a better position with your indifference to want to even be a part of and help out in it.

Here’s a thought. If you’re not willing to do anything to change a situation, don’t complain about it.
Sounds like your parents didn’t do their job as parents and are now relying on birth control.

As an older brother, you should talk to those older guys who come and visit her. Take them aside and inform them how awfully pathetic they are hanging out with girls 5 years younger than them. Ask them if they can’t meet girls their own age. Make it clear to them how sick it is that they have to approach an underage girl desperate for attention.
I’d kick them out of the house. If your sister makes a big deal out of it, tell her to talk to mom and dad. They’ll be on your side.

You need to make sure your sister understands the situation. She doesn’t see things the way you see it. She’s a dumb little girl who is easy to please and loves the attention these older guys are giving her. She doesn’t have the experience nor the ability to look back on her life and realize what’s going on. You need to do the best you can to inform her why she is acting the way she is and why she feels the way she feels. Also make a point at showing how pathetic those dudes are. They should have other things going on for them in their lives. When I was 18 I was going to university and pursuing my future career, not hanging around 15 year old girls that I have nothing in common with. Point this out to everybody.
Is your gf on BC familyguy? Because you’re not so brgiht either considering you cum inside her all the time…

As a parent there are many things you can do to not let your daughter put herself in those situations. Set a curfew, don’t let her out past certain times. DO NOT ALLOW BOYS to come over and "hang out". Also do not let your daughter go over to boy’s place to "hang out". Teach her its disrespectful to you as parents for that to happen. Sure she can go hang out with guys at the movies or bowling alley, but don’t let her put herself in a situation where something "might happen". The girls in my highschool that had sex early were the ones that had laid-back parents. They would be allowed to have guys over when the parents weren’t home, or they were allowed to go over to a guys house when his parents weren’t home. Those are the situations you need to stress are unacceptable. Can she find a place to have sex if she really wants too? Sure.. but don’t let her put herself in those situations easily. Teach her the value of education or a passion like sports/music/art. Like I said before, there are a lot more important things that a teenage girl should be thinking about other than sex.

I completly disagree with that. It’s not the ones with the laid back parents that are the problems – yes, they have sex (so what?) but it is usually in a safe location using protection. Good on them. A natural part of life. Enjoy it. Be safe.

It’s the ones that don’t care about the safety or are in denial about how sweet their little angel is that are generally the ones that get into trouble. Tend to have sex in a less safe place, less inclined to use birth control and generally does not occur anywhere near as safely as above.

Lets face it, teenagers have fun. It’s what they are biologically designed to do. It’s just society that places the different values on them. The best thing a parent can do is be open about these things, not make rash decision and end up sending them away to a much less safe location to have their fun.

He must care since he made this thread. Kinda funny how that works

I plan to be very open with my children regarding sex, drugs, alcohol, etc, and while I’ll try to instill a strong sense of ‘wait til later’ in them, I’ll also have them know that I won’t freak out on them and disown them if they don’t.

In my opinion this is the MOST important thing to show your kid’s. That you will NOT freak out on them for making mistakes. If you do freak out on them they will NEVER come to you and tell you anything, however if you remain calm and help them decide what is in their best interest, they will usually come to you FIRST before making any mistakes.

My bf’s daughter (now 15) came to me about THINKING about losing her virginity (sadly because all her friends were). We discussed all the self-respect issues, consequences (mental and physical) , taught her all about protection, got her on the pill, HPV vaccinations , and taught her about condoms.

Here’s the ironic part….are you ready….because of me being so open with her about all this and telling her about my horrible mistakes that I have made. She has decided that she wants to wait until she is much older and promised me to talk to me about it again before she thinks about it because, and I quote "you are the coolest adult I have ever know because you didnt flip out on me. Plus, you made me think about this and I didnt know there was soo much involved with it"

Currently both 15 yrs old girls in our house have no desire (yet) to lose their virginity. Must be doing something right huh?

No, I think he was expecting most of us to agree with him, and we didn’t. He hasn’t post on this thread again yet, so I’m assuming he doesn’t care what we have to say, exp. based on his other threads he posts.
I don’t know where the hell you live, but in this great nation of the United States of America, that sort of thing is illegal. Call the police! That is fucking sick!
Ok, you guys don’t need to address that being on BC is ok. We fucking get that.

The point is, she’s hanging out with old guys. That shit is fucked up. If I were the OP I would kick the shit out of the guys right away and then call the police.
Regardless of whether or not you think you’re going to bail on your family, your family has (as far as we know) cared enough about YOU to put a roof on your head instead of kicking YOU out when you turned 18.

If you’re allowing 20 year old losers to come into your home and fuck your fifteen year old sister WHILE YOU ARE HOME, you have failed as a brother. Even if you don’t love your sister, you owe it to your parents who DO love her to not allow that bullshit.

You can hate your "fucked up family" all you want, but she’s only a kid, and doesn’t deserve to be abandoned by her older brother.

that’s a smart idea. The police would arrive right on time to take you in on assault/battery charges.
I can’t believe no one cares that a 15 year old is fucking a 20 year old. Its illegal… If that was my kid she would be punished and some guys would have their ass kicked.

Congrats?

of course we care. It’s completely inappropriate…the thing is, none of us can do anything about it.

The OP could, but he doesn’t want to, because he doesn’t care about her.

But to be fair…from reading other posts of his in the past, he does not come across as having a good attitude in the first place.

It’s not innapropriate, it’s illegal. Age of consent is such a fluid concept it’s hard to determine when someone is ready or not.
Better to be on bc than not, shes going to have sex. But personally I would kick those guys fucking ass. And If your a small dude… its called a bat or a 2×4 and each of these is called an "equilizer". They should be jailed for what they are doing.

And so should people who would actually do what you are suggesting. Yes it’s wrong, but come on the daughter is obviously allowing this to happen somewhat…so assaulting these guys is a good way for the OP to get himself thrown in jail.

If they show up again without his parents’ permission, he should call the cops, not try to kick their asses.
If he was adament about saying he doesn’t even "love" his own sister he wouldn’t be making this thread….

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