I know I’m not the only one in this forum who has issues with this, so maybe this thread can help more than just me.

First of all, let me give you all a little background on myself.

I *think* I have an issue with what is commonly called "The Fear of Abandonment". I don’t know exactly how serious it is, but I know it’s there. I think it’s part of my issues with friendships.

All through my childhood up to the age of about 13, I had many friends. I’d go over to their house and stay every weekend. You know, typical kid type friendships. I had no issues with maintaining friendships or getting close to people at the time.

At 13, I had a seriously tramatic issue with my first girlfriend that I allowed to dominate my entire life. I pushed all my friends away and became a recluse for 4 long years. No friends, no girlfriends. Nothing. I would make excuses for why I couldn’t do things with the people who wanted to hang out with me. All the way up to my senior year of high school. FINALLY, during that year, I managed to get hooked into a group of three other guys and we did stuff together. Hung out at the movies, played pool, went bowling, went to school dances and shit, etc. I thought that I was finally getting over my issues from my first gf.

And then we graduated, and my best friend at the time went into the military and we lost contact. The group dissolved rather quickly and I found myself without any close friends again.

My very first friend in school, his name was Woody (lol), was my first friend and about the middle of second grade he moved away.

I changed schools at the same time, and ended up befriending two other kids. I hung at their there houses on the weekends all the way up until my issues at 13, when I pulled myself away and stopped hanging with them. My one friend, to this day, still pretty much acts like I don’t exist. I know it made him angry that I stopped talking to him, but it wasn’t HIS fault. But yet he never even asked WHY I stopped. I’ve since realized that although me pulling away wasn’t a very "friendly" thing to do, that him not even giving a shit why I reclused myself shows what kind of friend he truly was. If he even cared, he would’ve asked why I pulled away. But no, he just stopped talking to me.

My other friend, I still see him once in a while, but I feel so ashamed of pulling away that I don’t really do much but talk to him when I see him. He still says that we should hang out and stuff but I rarely see him. I keep telling myself that next time I see him, I’ll actually set a time to hang out with him. But he’s pretty busy anyways and has his own life and stuff, so I never see him and don’t really know how to contact him anyway.

Anyways, back to graduation. After graduating I got a part time job at McDonald’s during my first years of college. I made some friends there, and ended up hanging out with a few of them (I even got a girlfriend at that time–which ended after like 2 months). And then I met the girl who would become my wife, and ended up losing contact with those friends because I moved away to go to school. Ended up getting married and focused EVERYTHING on my marriage and didn’t even TRY to make any friends or anything.

All the while, I watched as several people who I was really close to in my family die. My cousin, who was like a second mother to me, died. Both my grandmas (never even knew my grandfathers because they pretty much died before I got old enough to know them). My aunt. My uncle. All the people that *I* was closest to in my family died.

Anyways, about a year and a half ago my marriage ended. And I found myself all alone. But the funny thing is, that since all my friendships have dissolved and my close family have died, I have discovered that I have issues with allowing people to get close to me and because of that, I have forgotten how to cultivate friendships and am afraid to get too close anyways.

The thing is, however, that I’ve gotten a lot more social in the past year. I’ve gotten out and met a lot of people and made new acquaintances. But I keep finding myself afraid to get close. To actually turn these acquaintences into friendships. I’ve forgotten how to be a friend myself and how it works. As a result, I find myself putting myself into social GROUPS of people, without getting close to anybody specific.

Couple that with the fact that my job is full of people WAY older than me and there’s nothing in common with the people I work with, and I live in a shit town with NOTHING going on, and I’m finding it hard to even meet people anymore with which I could even cultivate friendships.

I keep trying. I’m trying to find another job anyways, but that’s slow because there is NO work in my town that is paying what I am making without a specialized degree. I’m looking to go back to school and now that my divorce is final, and my finances are almost straight again, I am ready to start focusing on a new career and cultivating friendships.

But I honestly don’t know how. At least in real life. I’ve gotten really good at making friends on the internet. I even have a couple of friends from the net that I’ll call once in a while on the phone. But just as my last relationship was an e-relationship, I am noticing that I am doint it because I am afraid to let people get TOO close. I keep a distance. In fact, I figure even my body language screams distance to people without me even knowing it.

Anyways, I wanted to put that out there and get some advice. I figure the top advice will be to see a shrink, which I’m starting to really consider, but I have no idea how to find a good shrink.

So, the advice I am looking for is two-fold:

1. How do I cultivate friendships again and allow myself to get close to me again without fearing that they’ll leave?

2. How do I find a GOOD shrink? I’ve looked in the phone book and shit, but it’s hard to just pick a name out of the phone book and go with it. Is there any website that helps with this?

Thanks for any advice you can give.
Brother; I honestly recommend some serious fresh air…… You are spending WAY too much time on here; ranting raving and questioning yourself. You need to THINK less and DO MORE. No advise is going to help you… Do some work on your own.

The problem is that you are spending too much time on the internet and not enough time ‘off’ of it. That is why you’re getting better at e-friends, and having yourself believe you can’t cultivate a real friendship.

A real friendship requires you to be active. So get out there!

Well, to be fair, MOST of my time here is spent during my working hours. I suppose IF I ever find another job that’ll take care of it, but it’s hard to stop posting here during the days.

As far as nights, I usually don’t come on here until 8 or 9 ‘o clock at least, and at the very least after dark. During winter I spend more time on the net in the evenings because there’s not daylight to get out. I’ve been trying to go out more in the evenings and do things you can do after dark, but that takes money which I’ve had to really watch lately to get my finances straight.

Fortunately, with spring coming Softball will start up again and I hope to play again this year.

Good, be active, get out there, find and enjoy your hobbies, join associations clubs or events where people of like mindedness/interest are available.

I strongly recommend you pick up a book by Osho called "courage" or "love freedom and aloneness" I think the concepts within it will greatly help you realize your independence.

Life is change, you can not ever expect that people won’t come and go in and out of your life; you can only live NOW and do the best you can.

We often concentrate so much on our past/future out of fear, we lose track of NOW and inevitably push people away, or hold ourselves back.

Last year I took a 3 month break from message boards in general and I pushed myself to be really active and get things going. It was probably one of the greatest things I ever did to move past my marriage and shit.

Working a job like this, at a desk, though, has really made it difficult to remove myself from message boards and shit.

In any case, I’ll have to read that book. I’m always open to a good book.

You’re assuming and almost trying to blame him, do you notice that? At 13 years old I was temperamental and young. You were this kids best friend and then one day you stopped talking to him cold turkey! Do you realize how much that can fuck with someone’s self esteem at that age? Especially a young boy.

He most likely first thought "what did I do?" followed by a stubborn "well screw him!" Most guys are like that anyway, you all don’t fucking talk to one another. And it’s not like you ever sought him out to apologize for abandoning your friendship. Why should he be the one to seek you out?

Tell him. You know you want to apologize for the past. If you do you will finally feel closure and he might laugh it off which will only make you feel better. Then you can move on and have at least naother actual friend.

I personally have an extremely hard time letting people in. I’ve been burned by "friends" and it took years to be able to trust others again. My best friend and other good friend died suddenly at age 19. Even now I keep a very close small group of friends who I ultimately trust completely. I meet new people all the time but it takes me a lot of "hanging" to let them in. I’m even worse in relationships but that’s a whole different story. It really is all about the fear of getting used, left, hurt, etc. But I work on it constantly. I have to basically tell myself to call certain people to hang out but I do it because it’s ultimately more beneficial than sitting at home beign loney.

Again, I have the same problem. But you just have to do it. You’re the only one who can change how you handle these friendships. It’s not as if you have to become best buds sending every minute together. You are a grown up, grown up friendships I find are much different and easily attainable. You see them maybe once a week or here and there when you feel like it. If you want to go to the dog track (totally random example, but go with it) then call the guy you like that you met last week and see if he wants to go. While you are at it iit’s not a crime to invite a few others that you think would approve of the event. There’s nothing wrong with hanging out with a group of people. You can still get to know people on a one-on-one basis while in a group.

Hell, I’ve met tons of people that I met via the internet first. The good thing is you realize why you are doing it and again only you have the power to work through it. Your problem is fixable. You just have to have the willpower.

I went to a shrink very briefly…but god damn man, it always felt awesome. I recently finally got my sister (who is beyond broke BTW) to see one and even she is feeling better. Sometimes it just feels amazing to tell your issues to someone who is:
*willing to actually listen
*give back helpful suggestions
*won’t judge you
When I went I went through one throuh my insurance. She actually wasn’t even the greatest shrink IMO, but I felt much better relatively fast. Most people who see psychiatrist’s will tell you it’s the kind of thing you need to look around for. I actually saw two because the first I really didn’t care for. Sometimes you have to find one that you think understands you better. My sister got one on the first try who is unbelievable, I even wanna meet her

Definitely pick it up, start with love freedom and aloneness

Yeah, I used to reason that I didn’t have the money to see a shrink, but in the last couple of weeks I’ve been going to the field with a guy at work who has a son that lost an eye. He was telling me that his son was going to a shrink, and that he only had to pay the deductible on the insurance and then after that it was like a $15 copay per visit. I think I can manage that for a while if I could only find one.

I’m kind of scared of the idea though, on the one hand. On the other I think it’d be really good for me. I’m trying to force myself to make the first step and give it a shot.

Sounds pretty good to me.

I’ll add that I really dont think you’ve "forgotten" how to make friends. Last time you did so – I think it was some time in college you mentioned – did you sit around and write long drawn out rants and analysis of your inability to make friends? Did you do that in elementary school? I’m guessing not. And while the person you are now and the people you’re trying to be friends with are a wee bit different from back then, the principals are the same. You didnt have to have a "plan" or a "concept" back then and you dont need one now.

I really think this is a good idea, especially if you know you can afford it. Even if you cant quite afford it monitarily, I think it’ll help so much that its "worth" whatever money (ok, not really "at any cost" but you get my drift) you spend on it
P.S: I do NOT think a shrink is a good idea; you need to rely on yourself and not use someone else as a crutch. Coming on here and asking for advise is one thing; trust me READ the book, and GET OUT THERE, be active. Using a shrink to scrutinize your life once more and ‘talk talk talk’ ‘think think think’ will only have you hooked on constant visits with little progress.

Psychiatry does little good in the long-run.
YOU are the common denominator here.

I would generally expand on my reasons, however I simply don’t have the patience for it anymore, I’ve voiced my opinions on here plenty of times regarding shrinks and pharmaceuticals.

Honestly, GET OUT THERE.
Viper, no comments on any of my other points? I put a lot of thought into them

Heh, well, I’m going to take both advice.

I’m in the process of getting my own place, and once I get that settled, I’m probably going to take another break from the net again.

But I’m also going to see a shrink as well. I want to EXHAUST every option I have available to me, because I never want to make these mistakes again. I’ve went through complete HELL the past year scrutinizing every little detail about my marriage and myself and facing my insecurities and because of it, I am a stronger person today because I have faced emotional hell and come back from it.

I feel like I am in a "rebuilding" phase now as opposed to a "cleaning up" phase, so things are rapidly changing with how I deal with things. I’m not going to beat myself up anymore. I’m ready to move on now that I faced myself and my insecurities.

But I do want to go to a few sessions with a shrink just to see if he/she can tell me something I haven’t already discovered about myself.

Heh, I’m going to re-read everything you wrote. I want to make sure I’ve digested everything you’ve said before I comment on the other stuff.

I’ll put up a reply within the next half hour hopefully.

I think I kinda just reasoned it that way to alleviate my own guilt. The other friend still makes an attempt at hanging out when I see him and the other one just acts weird if I ever see him (which is rare). I also figure that his parents probably gave him advice to just not say anything to me and move on anyways.

I hear what you are saying though. I suppose I came up with that to try to make myself feel better for just dropping everything and pushing him out. I was already pushing him away anyways by the time I met the girl because at the time I was HEAVY into church and my church was very "cultish" and he was one of two non-christian friends I had.

My best friend IN church at the time suddenly became most important to me, even though when the whole thing blew up (we ended up leaving the church because the preacher was accused of fucking my girlfriend at the time and she was 15 lol–fucked up ain’t it?), he hasn’t talked to me since. Yet another fucked up friend experience really.

If I ever see him again. You realize that this would be VERY hard to do, though, right? lol I’d be drudging up the past and hell, who knows if he even THINKS that I purposely shut him out. perhaps he thinks we just drifted apart. Because he doesn’t act like anything is wrong like my other friend has (I haven’t seen the other one for YEARS though).

Yeah, I know. And I’m trying to cultivate new friendships. i don’t want to be afraid.

Here, I’ll give you another example of a friendship gone awry in my life. Right before I got married, I started hanging out with a guy I was friends with in high school. He was a social outcast himself (I always tended to gravitate towards those people and like those people more because they seemed more real to me), but he was always cool to me even though he was a dick to everyone else.

My ex-wife HATED him, but for a while I didn’t allow her to affect my hanging out with him. The thing is, we had two common interests: we both loved to read and we both loved to go to the movies. So our hanging out consisted mainly of going to the movies and getting something to eat before or afterwards. At the time, I wondered if people thought I was gay for going out on what is considered a typical "date" for guy/girl relationships around here: dinner and a movie.

I didn’t allow it to stop me or get to me though, because I know I’m not gay and that it was just what we liked to do together.

But one night we ended up getting to the movies too late to see the evening movie and had to wait for the late movie which started at like 10:30 PM I think.I didn’t get home until almost 2 AM that night, and my ex-wife (then she was my girlfriend) was calling my mom to see where I was and why I wasn’t calling her. So when I get home late, my mom is at the door (I had a curfew back then of 1 AM anyways) and she’s fucking PISSED at me and screaming at me for being out late and making everyone worry.

Understandable.

Then, out of nowhere she starts talking about my friend. Here’s the gist of what she said:

"What’s the draw to KC anyways? He’s an asshole to everyone. Why are you friends with him? What’s the draw to go to the movies with him? Are you queer together or something?"

That really shocked me that my own mother would call me gay. I pretty much shut her out and didn’t talk to her for days until she finally apologized–not for accusing me of being gay with this guy, but for yelling at me and the way she talked.

THAT really fucked me up. I ended up getting married that summer, and we moved away and I lost contact with my friend and I never felt right hanging with him after that ANYWAY.

Yeah, I know. Those are good points.Finding groups to hang out with has been tough around here because there’s literally NOTHING to do. I’ve been looking around. I managed to get into softball last year for 4 months and I hope to do it again this year. But I DO want to make closer friends than just groups of people.

Yeah, and my e-friends have been really supportive to me. But again, it’s still a way of distancing myself.
Friendships need nurturing.

Offline – call people just to say "what’s up". it shows that you are comfortable being friends outside of work/school and are open for communication. i’ve been doing this more and more lately and it helps people remember who you are.

Online – IM people for no reason you’re bored, they’re bored, why not connect. i need to work on this.

I’m probably TOO good at this. I don’t need help with internet dealings because I’m pretty comfortable with friendships online because of the distance that is already there.
So any advice on finding the right shrink?

I’m kind of shooting blindly here.

Because you’d want to see someone local it would be best to get first-hand knowledge from someone who’s been to see them, so I want to suggest you ask friends/family if they’d heard of anyone good. However, I can see how this can be awkward b/c then you’d actually have to tell your friends/family that you want to see a shrink, so thats kinda out.

Do you have another doctor that you see – even a primary care physician, a podiatrist, any other doctor you like/trust? Even if they’re not in the same specialty as the kind of doc your looking for, they can often give a good reccomendation b/c they either know the doctor personally or have heard from another patient that they’re good.
When you said "fear of abandonment", I absolutely know what you mean. When I was 15, I moved from Malaysia to America, leaving behind all the good friends I made over the course of those years.

Those friends used to snail mail me pretty regularly. I enjoyed hearing from them. But over time, the mails dwindled…eventually to nothing. I remember when I was 18, sitting in college, mass emailing friends, finally one friend replied and said "you know, long distance friendships don’t work". This guy used to be one of my best friends for a few years. I was absolutely crushed and disappointed, then decided to cut off all contact with this guy.

Over the years, I made new friends. Most of the ones in high school are still some of my closest and best friends. College friends disappeared after we graduated. But now, even the high school ones have moved away to other cities and I’m left feeling abandoned. I hardly get called to do anything. This made me have an urge to move to another city far away. At least if I have no friends, it’s because I’m in a new city right? not because I was ‘abandoned’.

but anyway, I struggle with my insecurities of my friendships. I wonder if all this was attributed to feeling ‘abandoned’ by old malaysian friends.

But I am returning to Malaysia this year, and they have reached out to me, insisting I hang out with them and stay with them. I feel happy and realize that…maybe I wasn’t abandoned. Maybe distance did indeed leave us not much to say to each other but from time to time, exchanging emails and keeping each other updated with our lives…there IS still friendship. I wasn’t really abandoned entirely…this gives me hope for friendship.

In my bid to understand what friendship was all about…I found this site a few days ago:

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