How stupid am I..

Hi, appreciate all the advice in this subforum. I’ve gone through many of the threads here over many weeks, and they’ve helped me personally to no end.

Anyway, theres this girl ‘A’ and me in ‘love’. We keep no secrets from each other, and we know each others’ past history very well (She’s been in a couple of extremely short term relationships, and this is my first one).

Theres this girl ‘C’ she is best friends with. They have been hanging out with two guys for a year now. (Conflicting schedules and distance factors have led to me meeting ‘C’ just once in the 3 months I’ve been together with ‘A’). I’m a pretty short tempered and possessive type, and wasn’t in favour of A going out to the movies and all with C and these two other guys, one of whom has the hots for my gf. She doesn’t have those feelings for him, but nevertheless provides him with opportunities to flirt with her by hanging out with C and these 2 guys. Now I believe her, but do not appreciate her encouraging this flirtatious behaviour on his part. She hints that the other guy and C are on the verge of becoming a couple. She doesnt state this explicitly, but any half brained idiot would infer that from her accounts, and I trust that is the reason she ‘chaperones’ her friend C to these meetings with the two guys (who happen to be roommates).

Being possessive, I throw a tantrum (probably not mature, I know, but my blood has a pretty low boiling point ) and question the need for her presence in the group since this virtually equates to her and C double dating those two guys. She says she has zero feelings for the flirtatious guy, accuses me of not trusting her and is hurt by my behaviour.. Our relationship cools down.

Eventually we mend fences. Now, a month from then, it unintentionally slips out from her mouth that her best friend C is actually married for the past 2 years. Her husband lives 8 hours away and they live seperately while C completes her college graduation here in 6 months.

This comes as a total shock to me. A lot of questions.
A) Why the hell was this not disclosed to me earlier??? What sort of relationship are we in wherein she doesnt even bother to tell me her best friend is married??
B) If C is married, why the hell try to insinuate that she and this guy are trying to hook up? Why is she encouraging this behaviour on C’s part by accompanying her to these virtual double dates? Do marriage vows mean nothing to C or herself??
C) She now says C has no feelings for this other guy, and if I had inferred from her ramblings that she did have feelings for this guy, I was sadly mistaken. Now, I am certainly gullible, but not stupid enough to misinterpret this so badly.
D) Okay, assuming that C indeed doesnt have feelings for this guy, why the hell are they going to the movies and picnics with these 2 guys (one of whom flirts openly with my gf, by her own admission) when C is married, and my gf is my gf??

I know posing these questions to my gf is going to be futile, as it’ll just lead to her accusing me of not trusting her and doubting her character.

Am I being too immature in wanting my gf to stop going to the movies with a guy who openly flirts with her (heck, she doesnt even have the chaperoning excuse anymore)? Its pretty obvious she enjoys the attention this flirty guy showers on her. It is no longer a case of her tolerating his advances for the sake of her best friend.

The way I see it, I either am too immature and thus not ready for a serious relationship, or am a gullible, spineless fool being led around. Either way the relationship is doomed, isnt it?

Sorry for the rambling on. Its just that the fact that my GF would conceal the fact that her best friend is married shocks me to no end. I now feel like you can’t trust anyone with the truth.

Cliffs:

– GF hangs out with best friend, female named ‘C’ and two other guys, one of whom I’m led to believe is in the process of hooking up with C, and the other openly flirts with my GF.
– I object to her hanging out with flirty guy. She accuses me of not trusting her.
– A month later, it slips out of her mouth that her best friend C is actually married and living seperately from her husband due to career and education problems.
– This shocks me. Either it means she encourages a married woman hooking up with another guy, or that the story of her trying to hook up with this other guy was just an excuse for her to continue basking in the attention showered on her by Mr flirty guy.
Or maybe your girlfriend didn’t encourage her friend to hook up at all? Maybe her friend is in an unhappy marriage and sought it on her own? Why does your girlfriend have to play an underlying role in her friend’s infidelity? You said it yourself, you’re possessive and pretty short tempered, maybe you need to look outside of the options that YOU want to see.

As for not telling you about her marriage, maybe she figured you would react the way you’re acting now and wanted to avoid it?

Or maybe your girlfriend didn’t encourage her friend to hook up at all? Maybe her friend is in an unhappy marriage and sought it on her own? Why does your girlfriend have to play an underlying role in her friend’s infidelity? You said it yourself, you’re possessive and pretty short tempered, maybe you need to look outside of the options that YOU want to see.

As for not telling you about her marriage, maybe she figured you would react the way you’re acting now and wanted to avoid it?

Mate, who hides the marital status of best friend from an SO? My best friend, a great guy, is married, and that was one of the first things I told her even before I made my feelings for her clear and asked her out for a first date. What harm could have been done by telling me this at the start of the relationship? (She didn’t even know I had a short temper until a month after we started dating which was when I brought up the topic of her hanging out with the flirt making me uncomfortable for the first time. I couldn’t care less about how regular people behave with me in day to day life, and am therefore usually a calm guy. Its when loved ones hurt me that rankles me and makes me short tempered towards them. So my temper isn’t an excuse for her not telling me about the marital status of her friend) When was she planning to disclose this to me? Was there ever going to be a good time to get that piece of information into the open once she hid it from me? There is absolutely no way she figured on hiding this from me because I’m possessive and short-tempered, because this is the sort of stuff you disclose at the start of a relationship. There is no reason she could have hid something as seemingly trivial as this from a loved one unless she herself felt that piece of info would make the loved one see her indulgence with the other 3 people as wrong/immoral.

The marital status of a friend isn’t really that vital a piece of information, but the purposeful hiding of it for so long is what makes it so sinister and so frustating for me.

Besides there is also the matter of that flirtatious guy. He phones her regularly too, and on a couple of occasions she’s mentioned to me in a wistful voice, that he hadn’t called her in quite a while. How am I supposed to react to that? She doesnt mention this as merely an obversation, but in a manner that suggests she misses the attention he gives her by calling her up regularly.
at first, when i thought C was single, it seemed to me to be perfectly reasonable for you girlfriend to go along, to act sort of as a "wing man" (probably what the other guy was doing too, although he may have had other intentions). but the fact that she is married makes the whole situation kind of fishy. why would two women in serious relationships be going on regular outings with two random men, when their SOs aren’t even invited?

I would ask her about it and see if she says they’re all "just friends". if that’s the case, ask if you can come along next time of if you all can get together and do something. if she says no, i would start to worry.

at first, when i thought C was single, it seemed to me to be perfectly reasonable for you girlfriend to go along, to act sort of as a "wing man" (probably what the other guy was doing too, although he may have had other intentions). but the fact that she is married makes the whole situation kind of fishy. why would two women in serious relationships be going on regular outings with two random men, when their SOs aren’t even invited?

I would ask her about it and see if she says they’re all "just friends". if that’s the case, ask if you can come along next time of if you all can get together and do something. if she says no, i would start to worry.

tagging along as a watchdog?

that’s fine, just make sure it doesn’t look like that’s what you’re doing.

if you’re a bad actor, better not to do it at all?

at first, when i thought C was single, it seemed to me to be perfectly reasonable for you girlfriend to go along, to act sort of as a "wing man" (probably what the other guy was doing too, although he may have had other intentions). but the fact that she is married makes the whole situation kind of fishy. why would two women in serious relationships be going on regular outings with two random men, when their SOs aren’t even invited?

I would ask her about it and see if she says they’re all "just friends". if that’s the case, ask if you can come along next time of if you all can get together and do something. if she says no, i would start to worry.

You would not let your BF do it… esp if the other girl was hotter than you. so dont act like its perfectly ok.
she has poor taste in friends, or doesnt realize peoples friends are a reflection of the person.

AKA

Whores run in packs.

Good luck.

Thats what I figured too wrt my girl. I don’t even feel angry at the flirty guy all that much to be honest, as much as I do at my GF. The guy and I are acquainted, and he’s always behaved pleasantly with me on the rare occasions we cross paths in our place of work. Besides he rarely calls her up now (as I mentioned, it is my GF who is disappointed that he calls her up rarely nowadays). And I’m pretty sure he would stop flirting with her too if only she stopped encouraging him with a stern "no".

but the fact that she is married makes the whole situation kind of fishy. why would two women in serious relationships be going on regular outings with two random men, when their SOs aren’t even invited?

I would ask her about it and see if she says they’re all "just friends". if that’s the case, ask if you can come along next time of if you all can get together and do something. if she says no, i would start to worry.

So far I’ve resisted the temptation to ask her if I can tag along with them. I know for a fact that she would construe such a request as a sign of my mistrust for her and me wanting to ‘keep tabs’ on her and that guy. I’ve always considered that step a no-no for the healthy future of our relationship.

I’ve just called her up now. When I asked her about why her friend C goes out with this other guy, she says she doesn’t want to divulge her personal issues. Asked why she didn’t atleast mention before that she was married, she expressed surprise at the fact that I was making a mountain out of a molehill. That this was such a trivial thing, and predictably she went on the defensive as usual and gave me the "We’re all just good friends" line (in a tone of voice that is usually used for "Don’t you dare doubt my character").

she has poor taste in friends, or doesnt realize peoples friends are a reflection of the person.

AKA

Whores run in packs.

Good luck.

God, you’ve articulated precisely what thoughts are presently running at the back of my mind, but I dare not say out aloud. Even if she herself is innocent, why let herself be party to this sort of a situation?

Maybe because she enjoys herself?

Or because she enjoys the male attention, which confirms in her mind that she is with you because she chooses to be, not because she lacks options.

Maybe because she enjoys herself?

Or because she enjoys the male attention, which confirms in her mind that she is with you because she chooses to be, not because she lacks options.

or that shes cheating on you, or that she wants to know that you can be replaced or shes looking for the BBD
I wouldn’t want to date a girl with such loose morals. She should be trying to talk her friend out of putting herself in a position where she would be likely to cheat.
she should not keep friends who cheat on their husband.

if he was like "i’m gonna be wingman for my buddy at the bar, there will be another girl there too" i’d be totally fine with it. if he went all the time, and i was never invited, i’d start to worry.

Thats what I figured too wrt my girl. I don’t even feel angry at the flirty guy all that much to be honest, as much as I do at my GF. The guy and I are acquainted, and he’s always behaved pleasantly with me on the rare occasions we cross paths in our place of work. Besides he rarely calls her up now (as I mentioned, it is my GF who is disappointed that he calls her up rarely nowadays). And I’m pretty sure he would stop flirting with her too if only she stopped encouraging him with a stern "no".

So far I’ve resisted the temptation to ask her if I can tag along with them. I know for a fact that she would construe such a request as a sign of my mistrust for her and me wanting to ‘keep tabs’ on her and that guy. I’ve always considered that step a no-no for the healthy future of our relationship.

I’ve just called her up now. When I asked her about why her friend C goes out with this other guy, she says she doesn’t want to divulge her personal issues. Asked why she didn’t atleast mention before that she was married, she expressed surprise at the fact that I was making a mountain out of a molehill. That this was such a trivial thing, and predictably she went on the defensive as usual and gave me the "We’re all just good friends" line (in a tone of voice that is usually used for "Don’t you dare doubt my character").

seems weird to me. something must be odd if she is friends with a woman so willing to be unfaithful to her husband. have you ever met the husband?

and couldn’t you be like "oh i want to hang out to get to know these guys better, since they’re your good friends and all"?

now what if it was with a known man whore who has a wife?

If they were really all just good friends then she should want them to get to know you too.
The fact of the matter is she did keep secrets from you. Frankly, you can set a boundary with what you are comfortable with and go from there. If she’s not capable of existing in your comfort zone, then at least you found out early.

well i wouldn’t be immediately pissed, i’d just be like "why are you encouraging this? what is the deal with him and his wife?"

omgz those sluts omgz

for some people, it’s important to know their lover can be replaced, as it reestablishes the fact that they are there by choice rather than necessity.
yea i know that…. i had a great gf in college i fucked it by validating myself like that

ok. i see where you are coming from.

on the flip side, i don’t think i’ll be in any LTR’s again where either party is not getting validation

she has poor taste in friends, or doesnt realize Whores run in packs.

exactly, you’re not at fault, screw anyone who says different, and drop that slore.

Never even heard he existed until she blurted it out yesterday. And I’ve only met her best friend one too.

Talked a bit more to her today. and she says her friend has problems in her marriage, and them going out with the other guys keeps her mind off the problems.

She resents me suggesting she not see this flirty guy, says they’re just good friends and she can’t just stop seeing him because she knows him from before she even met me.

There is also another issue of her remaining friends with another guy who had proposed marriage to her one day around 8 months back. They had been good friends for a while, and he just popped the question out of the blue. She doesn’t find him physically attractive, and rejected his proposal. But they still remained friends (he’s her shoulder to cry on…she tells him everything). Now, a couple of months after he had been rejected by my GF, he went ahead and hooked up with another good friend of my GF’s. My GF told me once she was shocked how he just hooked up with her friend so soon after he had tried his luck with her. Where I’m going with this particular episode is this – my GF also used to hang out with this guy and her friend on quite a few occasions after those two had hooked up, but her friend was never told about how her current BF had once proposed marriage to my GF. When I asked her why they kept this girl in the dark about this, she said she didn’t want to ruin the relationship this guy and her friend were in.

This coupled with how she hid her best friends marital status from me shows that she just keeps inconvenient secrets from people just to stay involved in their lives and to avoid facing upto uncomfortable truths.

I think I’m going to take the general advice in this thread and end it with her. I can’t see a future with her now. I kept no secrets from her, even told her about a two year episode in my life wherein I just dropped out of college. That’s something I’m terribly ashamed of, and she’s the only one other than my family and best friends whom I’ve confided in about. Yet she thinks it perfectly fine to keep stuff like this from me. I can still remember the gasp she let out over the phone line when she realised she had blurted out the thing she had been keeping from me for whatever reason. Makes my blood boil.
You ought to be encouraging her. You ought not be repressing her.

Here’s why:

1. You should want to be good for your girlfriend.

2. Friendships – be they with males or females – are good for your girlfriend.

If you don’t want to be good for your girlfriend, dump her and save yourselves both some pain.

Where I’m going with this particular episode is this – my GF also used to hang out with this guy and her friend on quite a few occasions after those two had hooked up, but her friend was never told about how her current BF had once proposed marriage to my GF. When I asked her why they kept this girl in the dark about this, she said she didn’t want to ruin the relationship this guy and her friend were in.
This coupled with how she hid her best friends marital status from me shows that she just keeps inconvenient secrets from people just to stay involved in their lives and to avoid facing upto uncomfortable truths.

Honestly, if I were your GF in this particular situation (not the rest of the things in the thread), I would do the same thing. Its not her place to tell this girl that her BF proposed to her at one point. He should be the one to offer up that info. She’s right to stay out of it. I dont think it makes her a bad person to not get involved with it. Besides, it was months ago. Do you really want your bf/gf to give you a list of all the times they’ve considered marriage or go over how they proposed to someone but got rejected? If its over, its over.
Also, in the "girl-world" your GF saying "You know, he proposed to me once, but I rejected him" to that other girl could spin off into so many bad directions it’s not even worth it to start something like that. Bottom line, its between that couple, and your GF shouldnt have to say anything.

Honestly, if I were your GF in this particular situation (not the rest of the things in the thread), I would do the same thing. Its not her place to tell this girl that her BF proposed to her at one point. He should be the one to offer up that info. She’s right to stay out of it. I dont think it makes her a bad person to not get involved with it. Besides, it was months ago. Do you really want your bf/gf to give you a list of all the times they’ve considered marriage or go over how they proposed to someone but got rejected? If its over, its over.
Also, in the "girl-world" your GF saying "You know, he proposed to me once, but I rejected him" to that other girl could spin off into so many bad directions it’s not even worth it to start something like that. Bottom line, its between that couple, and your GF shouldnt have to say anything.

I highly doubt you’d feel this way if you were the girl who found out in time that your boy friend had proposed to one of your closest girlfriends just a couple of months before he expressed interest in you. And not to mention just the three of you hanging out together for months without either of them caring to inform you of that fact.

Heck, my GF has herself expressed shock at how he proposed to her friend so soon after doing so to herself.

You ought to be encouraging her. You ought not be repressing her.

Here’s why:

1. You should want to be good for your girlfriend.

2. Friendships – be they with males or females – are good for your girlfriend.

If you don’t want to be good for your girlfriend, dump her and save yourselves both some pain.

I am good to her. And I believe the same should apply to her too. We have conflicting work schedules, and I sacrifice a lot of my free time with my buddies to be with her as much a possible. Its been well over 3 months since I had a proper night out with the boys. I expect her to appreciate this. I keep no secrets from her. I expect the same of her. I do not ask of her to break friendships with males completely. We do have a few mutual male friends. But is it asking too much to expect her to not associate with a guy who wastes no opportunity in flirting with her?

I highly doubt you’d feel this way if you were the girl who found out in time that your boy friend had proposed to one of your closest girlfriends just a couple of months before he expressed interest in you. And not to mention just the three of you hanging out together for months without either of them caring to inform you of that fact.

Heck, my GF has herself expressed shock at how he proposed to her friend so soon after doing so to herself.

Right, so she should be deemed the "bitchy friend" intruding on other people’s business. No sir.

You need to open the lines of communication with your girlfriend.

WHy are you sacrificing things?

Would she want you to sacrifice things?

WHy are you sacrificing things?

Would she want you to sacrifice things?

I do this because I feel I’m on probation all the time. She questions if I’m losing interest in her if I don’t try and devote all my attention to her. I don’t know if its because we’re past the ‘chase’ stage. Its not that I resent having to give up spending time with my buddies to be with her, I absolutely love even simply being by her side just holding hands. Its that it irks me that she thinks I don’t trust her with this guy who flirts with her. It disturbs me that she looks at our actions through a prism of her own and isn’t open to considering that I might not be comfortable with certain aspects.

I dislike her attention whoring, I don’t think any girl in a relationship would put up with another guy flirting openly with her unless she loves the attention. I don’t know if it makes me a weak person for not wanting to tolerate this, especially now that she hid the fact that her friend is actually married. Why would a person hide things unless they felt they were indulging in something wrong?

Right, so she should be deemed the "bitchy friend" intruding on other people’s business. No sir.

You need to open the lines of communication with your girlfriend.

I admit I’m an introvert, and not very good at communicating my feelings to people. But I have talked these things over with her, and the end result of any of our discussions is that she is adamant she isn’t doing anything wrong or immoral and I’m not satisfied she’s being true with herself and not just staying in denial.

Which is why I need your help, guys. I need opinions and advice from people who are detached from the situation and have experience in these matters. This is my first ever serious relationship, and I don’t want to be hasty and make a mistake that would result in me losing her because she’s the sort of person I could just ‘be’ with, doing nothing except holding hands and watching her smile for hours on end.

I admit I’m an introvert, and not very good at communicating my feelings to people. But I have talked these things over with her, and the end result of any of our discussions is that she is adamant she isn’t doing anything wrong or immoral and I’m not satisfied she’s being true with herself and not just staying in denial.

Which is why I need your help, guys. I need opinions and advice from people who are detached from the situation and have experience in these matters. This is my first ever serious relationship, and I don’t want to be hasty and make a mistake that would result in me losing her because she’s the sort of person I could just ‘be’ with, doing nothing except holding hands and watching her smile for hours on end.

Well, you can’t control her.

1. You literally can’t.
2. Even if you could, she would resent you for it, which would be worse than if you were just letting her do her thing.

Here’s a tip about this kind of "problem".

It applies in relationships and outside of them.

Threats to you of this kind should just be opportunities to demonstrate to the girl that you are unthreatened.

For example:

You’re picking up a girl. She says, "I have a boyfriend." Logically, that should be the end of the conversation. But, let’s say you’re scum. And you want to pursue her anyway, even though she’s not single. Much as you (OP) are viewing your GF’s male friends as a threat to your goals, normally a girl having a boyfriend in this hypothetical pick-up would pose a bit of a problem for you. If you react naturally, you will view the boyfriend as a threat to your goals.

What’s the best line of approach? Saying, "I can offer you XYZ that your boyfriend can’t"? That shows you’re threatened because you feel you are in competition with her boyfriend. It’s equivalent to her boyfriend saying, "Don’t hang out with those guys because I’m more important." Ironically, this will backfire in either direction.

How about saying, "So what?" Unfortunately, that shows you’re threatened because you are starting an argument. It’s "trying" too hard.

The ideal response is neutral. Girl: "I have a boyfriend." You: "That’s cool, I’m single right now. How is that going for you?"

It’s too late for the neutral kind of response in your situation because you’ve already gone wayyyyy off course. But how about this:

Tell her you realized there’s nothing immoral about it per se, but that you just wanted to let her know it made you uncomfortable. And then drop it.

She will be surprised by your maturity and you can move on to other things, knowing that you did your best.

/long post

Glad you found them useful.

Anyway, theres this girl ‘A’ and me in ‘love’. We keep no secrets from each other, and we know each others’ past history very well (She’s been in a couple of extremely short term relationships, and this is my first one).

This is already starting off quite terrifying. Girl A? Love? Aaaaar she blows, I seeee’s an ice berg ahead matey.

Theres this girl ‘C’ she is best friends with. They have been hanging out with two guys for a year now. (Conflicting schedules and distance factors have led to me meeting ‘C’ just once in the 3 months I’ve been together with ‘A’). I’m a pretty short tempered and possessive type, and wasn’t in favour of A going out to the movies and all with C and these two other guys, one of whom has the hots for my gf.

You can’t control other people, and of course demonstrating possessive behavior or jealousy, or even temper will result in producing the very result you’d be trying to avoid. I hope you kept cool and just kept your mouth shut.

She doesn’t have those feelings for him, but nevertheless provides him with opportunities to flirt with her by hanging out with C and these 2 guys. Now I believe her, but do not appreciate her encouraging this flirtatious behaviour on his part.

I wouldn’t appreciate it either, in-fact I’d tell her I found it disrespectful and that I wouldn’t do that with other women. If she chose not to stop and I found it intolerable, I would end the relationship. A woman who flirts like that leads to putting herself in situations where she suddenly can’t say no — then the excuses come *I was drunk, I didn’t mean to cheat, it just sort of happened, I’m really really sorry*, you get the point.

She hints that the other guy and C are on the verge of becoming a couple. She doesnt state this explicitly, but any half brained idiot would infer that from her accounts, and I trust that is the reason she ‘chaperones’ her friend C to these meetings with the two guys (who happen to be roommates).

She doesn’t need a babysitter. She goes out with those guys because she likes going out with her friend and those guys. It’s that simple.

Being possessive, I throw a tantrum (probably not mature, I know, but my blood has a pretty low boiling point ) and question the need for her presence in the group since this virtually equates to her and C double dating those two guys. She says she has zero feelings for the flirtatious guy, accuses me of not trusting her and is hurt by my behaviour.. Our relationship cools down.

You need to set boundaries and express how you feel. You don’t like her behavior, so you tell her that. You can’t make her stop, but you can ask her to. If she chooses not to, then you have to decide whether you’re willing to tolerate it, or whether you feel too disrespected and intolerant to continue the relationship.

Personally, I would end a relationship with someone like that. I put my dignity over a relationship any day. Some people don’t mind tolerating that behavior, but I’m not one of them, and since relationships are highly individual, I get to choose who fits me best.

Eventually we mend fences. Now, a month from then, it unintentionally slips out from her mouth that her best friend C is actually married for the past 2 years. Her husband lives 8 hours away and they live seperately while C completes her college graduation here in 6 months.

The context of the girls separation makes a big difference. People stay married all the time, even though they aren’t "romantically" in love with the person anymore. It takes time to divorce, including money a lot of the time, so people often wait around and or do nothing about it until a time comes when they want to remarry.

Also, I don’t know whether this person is separated only to attend school, or because they had marriage conflict. Context makes it count.

This comes as a total shock to me. A lot of questions.
A) Why the hell was this not disclosed to me earlier??? What sort of relationship are we in wherein she doesnt even bother to tell me her best friend is married??

Depending on the context, the first reason would be a valid justification for not telling you, since it’s an issue that was already handled. A separation that is permanent, with only a marriage certificate stating otherwise, doesn’t matter, it’s not something most people would think twice about discussing, especially if it’s someone else’s business.

B) If C is married, why the hell try to insinuate that she and this guy are trying to hook up? Why is she encouraging this behaviour on C’s part by accompanying her to these virtual double dates? Do marriage vows mean nothing to C or herself??

Context. You’d have to understand why the marriage still existed and what type of contract/arrangment the couple have/had. Both may have agreed to go their separate ways and have entirely separate relationships, and there is nothing underhanded about that. However she may be cheating on her partner while separated too — or she may be considering it, but all this is speculation, not facts.

C) She now says C has no feelings for this other guy, and if I had inferred from her ramblings that she did have feelings for this guy, I was sadly mistaken. Now, I am certainly gullible, but not stupid enough to misinterpret this so badly.

Red flag. If you’re confused by a girl you’re dating, it means there is much more trouble ahead. Confusion is the first sign of breakdown in most relationships. Take heed of that. Even if everyone is being honest, confusion leads to misunderstandings, which often lead to serious fault lines.

D) Okay, assuming that C indeed doesnt have feelings for this guy, why the hell are they going to the movies and picnics with these 2 guys (one of whom flirts openly with my gf, by her own admission) when C is married, and my gf is my gf??

There are perhaps a couple reasons.

1: She’s naturally a flirt, and is friends with this guy. Which is a red flag.
2: She’s actually cheating on you, which is an instant relationship killer
3: She’s just hanging out with people, with no ulterior motive

I know posing these questions to my gf is going to be futile, as it’ll just lead to her accusing me of not trusting her and doubting her character.

Since you doubt her character already, which you do, the relationship is already over. You can take that to the bank. I gaurantee it. You may want to protect yourself now by slowly detaching from her. I would not get angry, volatile, or try to "make" her tell you the truth, or otherwise. You will suffer unbearably and will not like the outcome.

Am I being too immature in wanting my gf to stop going to the movies with a guy who openly flirts with her (heck, she doesnt even have the chaperoning excuse anymore)?

It’s not a matter of maturity in my opinion, it’s a matter of what you feel. You clearly feel it’s disrespectful and you don’t like it. If you voiced this feeling in an appropriate way, and she simply chose to ignore it, then you are incompatible with this person.

You do not trust this girl, probably because in your gut you know something is wrong, and as I always say "If you feel like something might be wrong, something probably is, you may not always be right 100% of the time, but you can bet your ass you’ll be right most of the time, and even if you were wrong and you went your own separate way, there are plenty of other women out there.

Its pretty obvious she enjoys the attention this flirty guy showers on her. It is no longer a case of her tolerating his advances for the sake of her best friend.

And it’s pretty obvious you don’t enjoy your girlfriend provoking and embracing attention from men who flirt with her, and there is nothing wrong with that as long as you handle it appropriately instead of trying to force someone to change, or yelling, screaming, manipulating or otherwise twisting the situation to get what you want.

You simply say what you want, and if you get it, great, and if you don’t, you evaluate whether or not it’s critical to the relationships endurance and survival. If it isn’t, you end it, and save yourself intense suffering and wasted time. Remember, time is the most precious thing you have. You can always make more money, but you’ll never make more time.

The way I see it, I either am too immature and thus not ready for a serious relationship, or am a gullible, spineless fool being led around. Either way the relationship is doomed, isnt it?

It’s the second one. You can resolve it quickly though and take your dignity back. If you’ve already said what you want, and she’s denied you, end the relationship. And the answer to your last question is yes.
Sorry for the rambling on. Its just that the fact that my GF would conceal the fact that her best friend is married shocks me to no end. I now feel like you can’t trust anyone with the truth.

Yuppy is right. Birds of a feather. It doesn’t really matter what the truth is at this point, the drama and red flags are more than enough for me to terminate the relationship if it were me, and trust me — I would terminate it right now. I’d call by phone too, just to make it convient for myself. I don’t care about someone else’s feelings when I feel in my gut that something is wrong.

Never even heard he existed until she blurted it out yesterday. And I’ve only met her best friend one too.

Talked a bit more to her today. and she says her friend has problems in her marriage, and them going out with the other guys keeps her mind off the problems.

She resents me suggesting she not see this flirty guy, says they’re just good friends and she can’t just stop seeing him because she knows him from before she even met me.

The facts don’t even matter anymore, because all this girl produces in relationship to you is drama, drama, drama, drama, drama — it doesn’t matter who is at fault, the relationship is crippled and dying.

There is also another issue of her remaining friends with another guy who had proposed marriage to her one day around 8 months back. They had been good friends for a while, and he just popped the question out of the blue. She doesn’t find him physically attractive, and rejected his proposal. But they still remained friends (he’s her shoulder to cry on…she tells him everything). Now, a couple of months after he had been rejected by my GF, he went ahead and hooked up with another good friend of my GF’s. My GF told me once she was shocked how he just hooked up with her friend so soon after he had tried his luck with her. Where I’m going with this particular episode is this – my GF also used to hang out with this guy and her friend on quite a few occasions after those two had hooked up, but her friend was never told about how her current BF had once proposed marriage to my GF. When I asked her why they kept this girl in the dark about this, she said she didn’t want to ruin the relationship this guy and her friend were in.

Drama, drama, drama, drama, drama, drama — you get the point. Details can get confusing, I try to avoid them in my "off-line" life. Keep it simple and to the point, that’s how my romantic life is with my girl.

This coupled with how she hid her best friends marital status from me shows that she just keeps inconvenient secrets from people just to stay involved in their lives and to avoid facing upto uncomfortable truths.

I think I’m going to take the general advice in this thread and end it with her. I can’t see a future with her now. I kept no secrets from her, even told her about a two year episode in my life wherein I just dropped out of college. That’s something I’m terribly ashamed of, and she’s the only one other than my family and best friends whom I’ve confided in about. Yet she thinks it perfectly fine to keep stuff like this from me. I can still remember the gasp she let out over the phone line when she realised she had blurted out the thing she had been keeping from me for whatever reason. Makes my blood boil.

Smart man, end it. Facts don’t matter, your feelings and your deep rifted frustration are what matter.

And there it is. She’s cheating on you. It’s the perfect setup. BF suspects something is wrong. Girlfriend punishes BF for having such feelings, going to great depths to make him doubt his gut feelings in order to continue using him. These types of women get a kick out of men being at their beckon and call. Attention whores, literally.

I don’t know if its because we’re past the ‘chase’ stage. Its not that I resent having to give up spending time with my buddies to be with her, I absolutely love even simply being by her side just holding hands. Its that it irks me that she thinks I don’t trust her with this guy who flirts with her. It disturbs me that she looks at our actions through a prism of her own and isn’t open to considering that I might not be comfortable with certain aspects.

It’s the fact that she won’t set a boundary with the guy regarding very specific types of behavior. She could "easily" avoid going into those discussions without giving up her relationship with her friends. Saying "No" or simply avoiding putting herself into situations is a very small thing to ask for, because we all know how men are. Even if we trust our girlfriends, men have ways of seducing and breaking even the strongest moral conviction.

I dislike her attention whoring, I don’t think any girl in a relationship would put up with another guy flirting openly with her unless she loves the attention. I don’t know if it makes me a weak person for not wanting to tolerate this, especially now that she hid the fact that her friend is actually married. Why would a person hide things unless they felt they were indulging in something wrong?

See? She made you doubt yourself! You’re not weak, you’re just trying to figure out how to handle things appropriately. Trust yourself man, trust yourself because I’ll tell you — you’ll never trust anyone else more than you trust yourself.

she has poor taste in friends, or doesnt realize peoples friends are a reflection of the person.

AKA

Whores run in packs.

Good luck.

Agreed

Thats why I keep my friends to a minimum. I dont hang out with drug users, alcoholics, and WOMEN WHO CHEAT ON THEIR HUSBANDS. You label yourself with the people you associate yourself with. I keep friends that have their shit together. C obviously is out of her mind.
yeah, she sounds just like my ex-gf who insisted on hanging out with her guy friend

she made me feel bad for questioning it and insisted that they were only friends

well, she was fucking him all along and using me to pay the bills and babysit her kids while she went out

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