PS. what it does to people is just fucked up.

whatever it takes to make more and more money.. i agree its horrible

it preys on peoples hearts

I agree with you to a certain degree, but I can’t really say that I hate holidays. I’m just really not that into them anymore. I don’t take Christmas very seriously, and only really care about it because it’s one of the few times of the year that I know for a fact I’ll be home and will have a chance to spend time with family and friends. I do despise the commercialization of the holidays, but I just don’t want to make the effort to hate them.
Just try to ignore all the madness, and you’ll get through it fine. It always helps to have like-minded friends, especially on some of the more ridiculous occasions, like v-day.

it pissed me off when i wasn’t single as well, digs like this are not part of this sub forum, check it at the door.

Oh thanks for telling me how I feel. You should really read forum rules.

k, lemme check them out

mod edit: yes please check them out, it saves me a lot of deleting, remember that the Asylum is an emotional hide-out, which means we have to preserve eachothers emotional state of balance.

Welcome to growing up, when you realize holidays are just another day, there is no tooth fairy, santa clause isnt real, and jesus was black. I keep the mysticism regarding holidays like christmas alive for the kids, and hope they enjoy the holidays as much as I used to. No need to get all angry about it, its part of life.
The only reason I like holidays is because you get days off from work/school.

its how fucked up people get that pisses me off. I am tired of bullshit and the amount of stress. Don’t fucking tell me about growing up. I run two decent sized companies and work part time for another. I know about responsibility, blah blah blah. Still doesn’t change the fact that they are over commercialized bullshit.

Woah there buddy. I know you said you were got angry about holidays, and there were some pretty cheap shots in the begining of this thread (now deleted b/c they were way outta line), but chill out. I think okita was just trying to put some perspective on things - Yes, holidays blow and one of the reasons is that when youre an adult (like most of us are), theres no magic in it anymore. It happends to alot of people, and alot of people feel (at least some degree) of the way you do, so there’s no reason to let it get to you. You said yourself it was irrational…

It just seems like a useless exercise that attempts to make people happy and just ends up getting people pissed off or hurt. I didn’t come in here to be here to spoken down to like I was some kid who just realized there is no santa. I picked up on that one at the age of 5 or so. My major issue is that when these big things go down people lean on me to make sure things happen. Or people come crying to me about this and that. I get enough stress as it is and for all I can tell the only real motivation to have these holidays in this country is to sell shit.
I used to hate all holidays simply because most of them are based on bullshit.
But as I got older and nostalgia began to kick in, I learned to appreciate my childhood memories of the holidays and all the commercial and all the stupid stress involved began to fade away.

Now I just cherish the memories of my childhood and all the stress and cynical commercialism kind of fades into the background.
I don’t look at the negative. I just enjoy the celebration. Everyday is Valentines day to me, or Christmas, or Thanksgiving — but on those particular days, others are more conscious, so I can share it with them.
i’m kinda in-between on the subject. i generally dont like the holidays themselves (not all, just some) but i like the residual that stems from it.

for example, i hate the "commercialized" holidays of halloween, vday, and xmas; but i like the resultant days off and the general "feeling" of the day. say what you will about the holidays themselves, but there are very few occasions where a great mass of people just have that palpable energy that you can feed off of. essentially, it’s the "spirit" of the holidays that i like.

the funny thing is, i don’t even celebrate the majority of holidays. growing up, they were never heavily emphasized in my household, so i never put much stock in them (case in point, i stopped observing xmas in elementary school). however, i still like that feeling of being witness to something "bigger," even if i’m technically not a part of it.

see I had a bad childhood and it did not impress good memories of these holidays to begin with.

Same here. I had the best childhood

Well if you don’t have fond memories yourself, maybe you can at least take some solace in that you know it’s all bullshit.
Something a lot of people never find out.
I know I feel kind of wiser than people that rush out Christmas shopping for instance just to get some meaningless material junk.

Maybe this sounds corny but try find out what the holidays mean to you.
I like the holidays not because of what they signify, but it can make me become closer to my family and loved ones.

I know a valentines Day is a cynical ploy by malls to sell more shit, but if I can find a gift that has some sentimental and deeper meaning than just a Hallmark card and give it to my girlfriend, and she loves it , it makes me feel good and closer to her.
What I think is funny, is that no one makes you celebrate the holidays a certain way. Some of you say its "made for money" or a Hallmark holiday. Valentines Day was first celebrated in the 11th Century. The government didn’t "make" it. They might have commercialized on it, but the holiday still has a deeper meaning, just like Christmas. Many have turned them Hallmark, but why do you have to? Understand the meaning of the holiday, and if you don’t wanna give gifts and flowers and waste money, then just don’t. How simple! Just spend the day around the house with your SO, and celebrate the day for what it was meant to be. Same with Christmas. If you don’t like the worlds materialistic view of Christmas, then don’t celebrate it that way. Sit around your house and pray and talk about jesus being born.

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I wouldn’t go that far. They like to be treated like you’ve got something going for you other than "her."

If you’ve got a life and you’re active, and she comprises a "portion" of your life, rather than half, or 3/4ths, then chances are you’ll be able to be a good guy and she won’t look down on you. Now if you seem needy or as though she’s worth more than you are, she’s going to abandon you.

Be polite and courteous, but don’t be a bitch.

Define treat her nice and respect her.

Men who don’t adhere to these qualities get their asses handed to them. You attract what you are most of the time. If you’re a douche, you’ll attract a douche, if you’re an idiot, that’s what you’ll get:

Any man who exibits any combination of the following behaviors consistently will do well with meeting attractive women.

a2.) DOESNT invest all his emotion/time into a relationship too early on. He remains an ambiguous challenge

As you can see from the rest of the thread no, it is not possible to be nice and keep your GF.

Well, let me rephrase, be "nice" but dont be a fucking faggot and let her walk on you, keep your self respect and KNOW that there is a ton of lady’s out there.

Talk like she is special, treat her like she isnt and maybe a little on holidays.
I can’t remember who said it, but work on being a "Good" man, not necessarily a "nice" man.

Be respectful and polite. Be confident, secure, autonomous, in control of your life. Don’t make your world revolve around her, and you will be fine.

Who is "everyone"? I certainly don’t like being treated like crap. I have too much respect for myself to tolerate that. I had a few different guys pull the asshole treatment on me thinking it’d keep me around. It didn’t work out so well for them. Then they called back a few weeks later wanting to know what happened

How hard is it to just be yourself, and treat others (whether a potential love interest, friend or co worker) with the same respect you would want?
be a good guy by respecting her (when she deserves it). reward her only when she exhibits good behavior. stand your ground and speak out if the bitch steps out of line. girls look up to a man who doesnt take bs from ANYONE, including the gf.
im talking to two girls right now, both swear up and down I am the cutest sweetest man alive. Take it for what you will.

I have never been the "asshole" I don’t have alot of relationships but the ones I do have last.

bingo.
when I stopped being a pissed off faggot, and started having fun, women wanted to come around me more. At least 3 of them did, which is more in the last 2 months than I’ve had in the last 4 years.

AWESOME

Exactly. That kind of man is a keeper.

Yeah…uh that would be me from another thread.

Otherwise you show her disrespect? No thanks.

Who peed in your Cheerios? Don’t be so bitter dude.

How would you feel if your girlfriend treated you this way?

Nope….not a shred of truth to it.

Why? It’s all about perspective.

So picture that I have this hot g/f that all kinds of guys would like to date. I’m Mr. NiceGuy and she takes advantage of that and treats me like shit. Then we break up…..ok….so most people see that simply as losing or finishing last.

However, from a different perspective, perhaps we weren’t right for each other. Perhaps I needed a g/f that likes nice people and will respect that….and yes, there are hot ones like this.

Everyone likes easy and simple answers….such as:

• Hot chicks like bad boys
• Nice chicks aren’t hot
• Being Nice = No hotness for joo

But come on….realize that this doesn’t apply to everyone….or even the majority. Sure on OT, that’s all you’ll hear about….but this is not a representative sample of the US or even the world.

Everyone is different and wants different things in a mate. The trick is finding one that is perfect for you…..so if losing this hot chick that isn’t perfect for you moves you closer to finding that other hot chick that IS perfect for you……how is that finishing last??

AMEN to this!!!!! I think if you are lucky enough to find the right person for you…The one who "completes" you and together you feel "whole"..well…that by NO means if finishing LAST, it’s more like winning the lottery that was a 1 in a million chance!

Just be yourself and NEVER try to change who you are to please anyone!!!

Thanks….I’m glad you liked it.

It’s so interesting to me that so many chase the hot chicks…simply because they are hot. I saw this so much in my Frat that it was kind of funny…but back then I was all caught up in it also but found that most of the ones I was chasing were just not right for me. Then I found one that was hot and good for me and wow….what an eye opening experience!

But you know…this concept isn’t just applicable to relationships. It can also apply to jobs, homes, friends or anything else we choose to have in our lives.
women don’t want a puppy dog for a boyfriend. I learned this years ago, but only started practicing it recently.
I’m so afraid for you, because you already hold her on this ridiculous pedestal, and that if anything could have her turn on you in the future. As long as she loves you for you (which will stand tyhe test of time after 8 months or so) she’s worth it. You should never change yourself just to keep a woman, either you are right together or you aren’t It’s a tough pill most people don’t like to swallow.
Most girls want a man who will treat them like a princess but is not afraid to put them in their place.

So, yes you can be "nice" and keep your woman.

Big thing is:

1. Don’t back down on things you WILL NEVER change (these are the things that define you and if you don’t know them then you don’t need to be dating and need to take some time to figure out who you are).

2. Never listen to what she SAYS. Always look at what she DOES. Actions speak much louder than words.

3. Don’t get too comfortable. If all you do is lay around the house and you never take her out, she’s going to get insanely bored with you.

4. Don’t be afraid to argue. Don’t wimp out when you disagree. Don’t be afraid to hurt her feelings. Learn the difference between "being there for her" and "giving her space".

5. Have a life outside of her. You don’t have to spend every day together. Have friends, have a social life, be your own person.

6. But above all else, don’t base your happiness on whether or not she’s happy. If you are with her because she makes you happy, then you are going to live a rough life. Be with her to SHARE your happiness with her and enrich each other’s lives.

You don’t have to be a dick to do these things, but sometimes you have to be really firm because a girl will shit test the shit out of you, push you to your limits, and push the boundaries almost all the fucking time just to see what you are made of.

Ditto! I always love "hearing" what Coottie has to say

(I only read this post)

Women respond when you provoke emotion from them. Many of them go back to the assholes who treat them like shit / abuse them / whatever because the guy provokes emotion from them (this is subconscious).

Don’t be the jerk who treats them like shit.

Be the guy who provokes them in positive ways. PUA push/pull is really effective. Look into and see if it’s something you’re comfortable doing. Being the nice guy/good guy puts you at a disadvantage, but it can work. Make sure you’re provoking emotion and keeping her interested. Don’t get complacent.
Cheers

Took the words out of my mouth..

Well I’ll agree with that

I agree wtih everything you said except these 2 things. You shouldn’t be afraid to disagree but arguing really isn’t necessary. You can have a calm mature discussion about things instead of arguing.

And what exactly do you mean by "don’t be afraid to hurt her feelings"? I don’t think you should be trying to hurt someone’s feelings if you care about them. You should feel free to express your opinions and disagreements but you can do that tactfully without hurting the other person.

It’s my sloppy way of saying not to be a pushover. Two things that keep a nice guy from standing up for himself is he doesn’t want to argue and he is afraid of hurting someone’s feelings.
I always calculate this by what you do when a girl doesn’t show interest in you.

I still dont know how to handle those situations, it’s almost like you can’t help but be needy.
there’s a fine line between being "nice" and being a sappy pushover. Be nice but don’t overdo it (this is a problem I had in the past). women don’t want to be treated like crap but they don’t a boring, wimpy momma’s boy either.
I think about it like that friend we’ve all had who just kinda hung around and sat on the couch, who really didn’t do anything. No one wants to hang out with that guy. If you don’t get out and have fun, while doing things other than sitting around being in love with the more recent woman, then of course the women will find other men to hang out with who are more enjoyable.

I’ve learned in the past few months to
1. Only call women when I have something to talk about or do…do not be the guy on the couch.

2. Be fun and be positive. I want the women I’m after to make my life more entertaining, they want the same thing.

3. Fuck them like a warrior, and break something like a lamp or a clock. You want it, and they want it too.

I’m really sweet, caring person. I’m working on making myself have fun and to trust women enough to not keep an eye on them 24/7 in fear of them cheating on me. I already have the sex part down, which is the easiest but an equally important part. Eventually I think emotional intimacy comes in, which I’ll probably fuck up, but not initially. If a woman has a guy who makes life fun, doesn’t bitch and whine all the time, and fucks like a chinese whore, what else could she want?

/thread

Hey Thanks!!

girls don’t love being treated like crap and the ones that do are not the ones you should be involved with to begin with, so push that thought out of your head.

it’s only been a month, emotions are running high, so go with them, but keep your head on straight. you should be nice and respectful, especially since you care for her. makes no sense not to.

if you think you’re going to get screwed, you will. therefore, stop thinking that way. there is some truth to that, mostly because nice isn’t good enough to keep a relationship going. if that’s all you have to offer her, then the relationship will fizzle out.

don’t get lazy nor complacent. put effort in to the relationship, offer her more than just "nice". keep her interest level high and don’t forget to be selfish to an extent. remember, she shouldn’t get lazy or complacent either. she should be putting in the effort and trying to keep your interest level high as well. if she does, then you should be doing the same in return.

since you say she’s crazy about you, it means you’re doing something right, so don’t worry about it too much or she’ll pick up on it.

I think I just experienced a soul-changing experience. Really weird, but I think now I’m going to start acting like that.

EDIT: I was going to bitch about how so many women go for the assholes who abuse and mistreat them, but instead of whining I’m going to just wonder about that but not let it get to me. Fuck, I think I really am going to change. Seriously.

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I promise! I’ve been dealing with tons of health issues these past 20 months and its been a huge burden. Lost my gallbladder, had tons of other procedures, 10 doctors later and no answers. Finally found out I had Strongyloides Stercoralis. It’s a nasty parasite and messes you up bad.

Well these past 20 months have been the hardest of my life. I’ve had to go through so much…I knew I wasn’t crazy but most of the doctors didn’t listen to me. It wasn’t until I started doing weekly stool tests for my dietician and then was referred to an infectious disease doctor that they found out what was going on.

My whole life I’ve been a Christian, went to Christian school, grew up in church but over the years I somewhat "lost my way". During this whole health battle I really grew close to the Lord. I really understood how Job and Paul felt. I understand so much more why I’m here on earth and to be greatful for every day.

Just the other day I got into Shands @ UF which took me 6 months. Met with 3 docs who then in turn met with 5 other ID docs and now my case is being presented to 30 other ID docs at a meeting on this Wednesday. I feel like I’m finally coming to the end of this long tunnel! It felt like forever! I never gave up…I wanted to on several occasions. Starting law school last year was the hardest thing in my life. I was 4 days post surgery and had to start.

My point in all of this is that there is peace there is hope. It’s hard to explain but God really does give you a peace of mind about the whole situation. When you are close to Him he lets your mind rest even when your body is in extreme pain. I still have a good battle ahead of me getting my immune system back up, gaining back my 30lbs, and putting back on some muscle. But I can do it!

A verse that has comforted me through all of this is Psalm 37:5 "Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass."

I feel that it is necessary to share this with so many of you who are hurting.

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Jeremiah 29:11

Even if you suffer on this earth you are not alone, Christ has been through everything we have and God promises eternal life through Christ. If you’d like to know more I encourage you to post up and or PM me.

I wrote a song a few months back when I was feeling horrid. I grabbed my guitar and started playing. I cried to God and wrote this…

This is the condensed version - If I typed my whole story I would definitely get a
That’s great that it works for you and your beliefs gave you the strength to stay positive.

lmfao

but yeah man, you bring hope to this forum, thanks for sharing a positive story
Fusion, I am LOVING your post My best friend is going through some hard core health problems right now and her doctors are telling her they can’t find anything wrong. We are both Christians and I can’t wait to pass your post on to her- I know it she will find strength and hope from it. Thanks Fusion So glad you’re feeling better

No related posts.

But then I started reading the threads here in the Asylum… and I realized that my single bad work day isn’t so bad. Thanks asylum!

PS: Still a shitty day, just not as bad as it could be!
bummer man, cheer up…. but im not seeing the pic…..
awww no pic… sad.. I even hosted it myself…

click here:
The biggest thing is I spent like, 2 months doing this programming and now they changed it all so I literally have to go back to square one… I hate that!

I LOVE that pic!

I’m sorry your day sucked ass, but hey- at least it’s almost bed time

Tomorrow is a new day
it is a new day, and all is better! It’s not billable hours as I’m salary, but meh… I’m over it now. That pic makes me smile every time.

I gotta say, the rest of the week went fairly well. I still had to redo it all, but it’s coming on a lot faster than I figured so all is working out… and right now I’m totally smashed so that makes it better too… I’ve had to rewrite this a few times because of spelling errors

No related posts.

I’m making a decision to begin a treatment tomorrow that is in opposition to my specialists opinion. I stayed with this specialist because my research lead me to him, I trusted him, and over 6 years his treatment was partially effective in targeting the infection we presumed was the cause of my suffering. I think we were partially correct.

I suspect there is a piece of the puzzle my specialist is missing and so I’ve gone again in search and drawn a pretty solid hypothesis. It is a "guess" at best, but a guess with very real circumstantial evidence supporting it. I will be using an antibiotic, I will attempt to attack an infection called Bartonella, often a co-infection spread along side Lyme Disease which is carried by ticks. Medical science is in extreme flux over both diseases, as to whether they exist or not in chronic form. Regardless, the fact is — antibiotics work in my case, so it’s a bacterial infection, but it appears to be deep rooted and resisting improvement with the Tetracycline. Some symptoms specifically have improved greatly, pain, muscle cramps, fatigue, joint pain, but the digestive and psychiatric symptoms have only improved perhaps 25% relative to the others.

It is my suspicion that if I use an antibiotic which this Bartonella like organism is extremely sensitive to, I should improve pretty quickly. The improvements should be psychiatric, (mood, cognitive, dreams, sleep, memory, behavior modulation) as well as digestive (Upper digestive disease, and lower — but inflamed, often painful, and bloated). Bartonella is known for causing both as it’s primary symptoms.

The drug is Levaquin, which is a very dangerous drug when used for more than 2 weeks. I have managed to convince one physician to prescribe and take responsibility for the treatment, and another to blood test every 2 weeks. Neither of them is my infectious disease specialist. They’re depending on me to make the right choice. The treatment will last 3-4 months. I’m terrified. I have used Levaquin in the past. I used it via IV while hospitalized and then orally for two weeks upon leaving the hospital. My health improved drastically after using it, within a months time I suddenly could walk more, go outside longer, etc. The problem with my hypothesis is that I was also using IV Vancomycin, Oral Pencilin, and Bactrim all within the same period of the Levaquin. I suspect based on my research that neither Pen or Bac contributed significantly to the improvement, as neither targets Lyme or Bartonella very much. However, IV Vanco attacks Lyme quite harshly, thus that could have been the cause of my improvements. Levaquin on the other hand could have been the cause of my improvements as my psychiatric, digestive as well as other physical symptoms improved. Either drug could have been the cause. Now, the factor that led me to narrow down further to Levaquin was that during the use of IV Vanc and Oral Pen, I developed an allergy to one of them. None of the doctors know which one since I was one both at the time. So, going back to both isn’t a wise option, — Oral Pen would be useless, but IV Vanco might hold the key. Regardless, I can’t return easily to it as the risk is much higher than going after the Levaquin first.

I certainly hope this makes sense.

I have done my research, consulted my other physicians and I’ve gotten an array of responses, mostly positive. I am informed. My physicians feel that we’re on the cutting edge of science, that medicine can’t tell me what to do at this point, I have to experiment based on the best possible data available, and so I am. I am fortunate I have support from people willing to possibly do harm, to take risks with me. I absolve them of the consequences of treatment should they be a poor outcome, including death.

Making this decision is hard on me, and I wanted to tell you all that, because I need support. I don’t know whether the treatment will work. I know my presumption is reasonable enough to warrant the attempt. I know the risks, and I’m nervous. Have I said that? You know I really am! Going against the only doctor who has helped me, and improved my health is enormous. He and I had a discussion recently, and I told him there may come a time when I will have to — in spite of my trust and respect of him — choose to oppose him in some cases and make decisions on my own. I told him "You are a fantastic physician, you have saved my life, but you have not cured me, and that you told me you could do. Clearly we now see that you can not, having spent 6 years fighting this war. He agreed, he could not say that was in his power anymore. and I said "While you may not have all the answers, you’ve certainly become someone I depend on and debate the process with regardless of whether I follow your instruction. Until now I have done everything your way willingly, I will likely need to take risks you don’t support." His response was simple "You’re right, I can only work within the framework of good science, and you’ve reached that limit. You’ve done everything in your power and I’ve tried my best as well. I don’t have the answers now."

So that day has come.

It is unfortunate I don’t have all the answers and have to make a decision like this alone (ultimately it really is alone since no one else knows what to do either), but sometimes that is necessary in life. Sometimes we can do our very best and still lose. I prefer this not be one of those times.

Thank you for reading, and perhaps even empathizing.

1: Starting a new dangerous treatment that may answer the questions as to why I have not improved as much as I should have over the last 6 years.
2: I’m afraid.
3: My specialist who has helped me improve my health does not support my hypothesis. He has hit a wall and admits he doesn’t know what else to do. I’m 50% improved most of the time, but still disabled.
4: I managed to get support from other physicians based on my presentation to each one. They saw merit.
5: I have the drug, and begin tomorrow.
6: Please support me, whether with stories of your own risks you’ve taken, or times you had to stand alone when others told you that you were wrong (And you ended up being right).

Wow
I am totally speechless.
You are such an inspiration!
And even though I don’t know you nor talked to you on OT before, I am so proud of you for having such great strength to do something like this.

If you ever need support or just someone to talk to you, you can always PM me.. it would really be an honor to talk to someone like you.

I hope you find the cure, and all the answers that you’ve been so long searching for. And I hope you continue to be as strong (or stronger) in fighting your illness.

And if the mod can create a sticky here where you can keep us updated that would awesome!
If a sticky can’t be made for some reason, then please update us (or me) with whatever you come up with.

Good luck and my prayers are definitely with you.
i hope you have done your research and follow the doctor who gave you the script’s instructions to the T.

I hope it works out for you.

While I respect your overwhelming response of support (thank you), I feel that if you were to step into my shoes you would realize that breathing is as natural to you, as fighting this war to regain my health is to me. It is hard to see myself as inspiring, because I am simply "learning to breath." I do appreciate if others get something out of my misfortune and my willingness or ability to try to overcome those obstacles, but I am by no means grateful or happy to have endured it. And in that, I wish I weren’t inspiring, at least not in this way.

Thank you. I think I understand the value of talking about these things.

I feel so inadequate. Isn’t that ironic and a bit sad? I don’t see strength, I see exhaustion, years lost, relationships torn apart, and a loss of control over my own behavior. I know literally what it’s like to go insane, to live inside a mind which is no working. A biological infection, consuming me, and causing me to yell at people I love, act strangely, to be irritable and cruel, self centered, and entirely a miserable human being. I did not choose these things, they were the result of damage being done to my body and brain, but I still had to be responsible for the results, because that is life, and that is the limit of which others can understand. Imagine yelling at someone you love — being entirely irrational — and knowing it while you’re doing it, but not being able to stop. Knowing you’re losing your mind, and literally parts of yourself, yet entirely unable to isolate the behavior. You can’t compartmentalize this illness, not like other conditions. It attacks everything. There is no place to hide, not even in your mind.

I am deeply hateful and disturbed by what I’ve fought. I do not take credit for my survival. I think my survival was fortunate, often a result of intervention from people, books, or external events I witnessed, which again often were by good fortune. The only part I’m willing to take any credit for is that I made a conscious decision to stay alive at all cost, to finish the war in one of two ways. I either win, or lose, and if I lose — the condition either must kill me, or I will go to my grave into old age fighting the illness.

The other option was suicide, which is extremely common among patients with this illness. People judge suicidal patients, but until it happens to them, they can’t possibly understand that the feelings aren’t necessarily a reflection of character. I have a very strong character, I know my sense of self which is waiting for me beneath this dysfunctional body and mind — I’ve written it down, like copying a hard drive of the mind, onto paper. I’ve written down who I am, when small glimpses would appear. It’s not commitment, passion, or anything other than pure desire to survive which led me to do that. I had to find away to keep my psyche in tac even while it dissolved.

Thank you. I do not want this thread to have a sticky, but I will update it. It will be hard on me to do so, but I have to write an update everyday anyway. I really don’t want to die. It’s just not who I choose to be at this time.

Faith, that’s a whole other battle field that I’m struggling with.

Thank you, for all the advice or knowledge I’ve ever taken, or given — I’ve not for one moment avoided with full passion to take my own advice first and to master it, before expecting anyone else to.

It is an irony that I’m taking a script from someone who has not idea why he’s giving it to me, beyond a guess — a shot in the dark based on some data that could easily be distorted by numerous variables, and yet — he’s taking the risk.

The instructions are simple:

1: Take broad spectrum probiotics each day, separated from the time of the antibiotic by 3 hours each way.
2: Take the rest of my medications as instructed.
3: Use 500mg Magnesium a day to avoid tendon rupture (Levaquin causes this in some cases), as well as 500mg x 1 of the Levaquin, and finally the proton pump inhibitor, which increases the strength of the Levaquin in fighting the Bartonella — otherwise known as Nexium. I must take that separately from my morning drugs, as I already take another antibiotic — Tetracycline, prescribed by the Infectious Disease specialist.
4: Last but not least the prescribing doctor recommended testing my blood once per month. I did one better and recommended every 2 weeks instead. The risk of kidney failure, liver failure, brain damage, and damage to the immune system as well as joints are all major concerns with long term use of Levaquin, so I think even greater monitoring is wise.

I would say I’m doing my best to adhere to the recommendations on the use of the Levaquin, but as far as whether I "should" be using it to begin with — that’s where no one agrees. Nobody knows what is right or wrong. It scares me, but I am committed and will find away to detach my feelings once I begin. I can’t be afraid the moment I pop that first pill in 6 hours.
As you guys show support, please be aware I will express feelings at length about whatever is said. I obviously am in a position where I need to really be self centered, and that may mean pulling apart what you say to express how I am feeling. I need to do that, to center myself. It has nothing to do with any of you personally. It helps me to talk at people, not merely to them in situations like this.

Thank you, I just began the first dose. I read the pamphlet that came with the medication to make sure I didn’t miss anything and sure enough, I did. I’m glad I’ve constantly reviewed everything.

What I missed was this: You have to take the Magesium supplement 2 hours away from the Levaquin. I totally forgot about that. So I was able to take the Levaquin aound 8:30 a.m. and now I’ll take the Mag at 12.
Update: I will not be pursuing this therapy. I’m extremely upset. I’m not upset so much that I am unable to pursue the therapy, but rather that the one physician who has improved my situation greatly has made it abundantly clear he may no longer be my doctor as a result of pursuing this proposal. I sent him an update today before making any further decisions, and his response was strong enough to warrant discontinuation.

I am shocked, very anxious that he may no longer treat me, but I don’t believe I made poor decisions. I had to make sure I’d covered my ground and made a solid attempt. I needed to make the right decision.

Here is Dr. D’s response:

Thank you for the note/update; I appreciate that you have to make some of your own decisions, but I can’t condone the use of Levaquin for treatment of Lyme disease or any of the coinfections, as there is no credible data currently available in that regard, and I remain concerned about both the known risks of neurotoxicity and tendon damage.

You are welcome to transfer your care to Dr Cooke and continue under the care of your PCP, but I will not be able to prescribe additional tetracycline while you are on Levaquin.

Please also note that I will not be able to respond to patient emails in the future.

Best wishes
Dr Donta

My response:

Dr. D,
Treatment for Lyme is more important than using the Levaquin. I thought you may not be comfortable so I e-mailed the update today to confirm your opinion. I will not pursue that protocol. I appreciate the candid
response. I would prefer to continue working together.

Sincerely,
Michael P.
All I can say is - "Do not fuck up."

Whats else you want us to say?

Good Luck.

If I was going to continue, that’s about the best advice anyone could give me. I appreciate it, because it was really all about morale.
Good luck Metallic. I dont post much in here but I always read your posts.
Suffering from physical problems is never good.

Thank you, I appreciate your response. I’ve chosen to abandon this new treatment.
Your doctor is probably worried since the effects of the therapy are unknown.. and that is very scary.

I think you made the right decision by sticking with your doctor.. especially since he’s been treating you for so long, and you have shown some improvement with him (?).

But please do continue to update us with your illness in either case.

Thank you for your post. Yes I have improved. I was most certainly going to die had my specialists (Lyme Disease) antibiotic therapy not worked. I had seen so many doctors and no one knew what to do, and those who did think they knew what to do either wanted me on psychiatric meds, or steroids. They kept diagnosing me with so many things, but none of them had solutions, nor were any of their treatments working.

This doctor has improved my health to a point where I’m split, nearly 50/50. It’s not enough to live a good life, but it’s not enough where I’m in agony or going to die. I’m caught in a sort of limbo. I look and appear entirely healthy, yet my symptoms are strong enough to prevent me from being functional in a consistent way that allows me to pursue goals, schooling, etc.

It’s a very unhappy place to be, but it’s far better than death. I am terribly concerned now. He may not wish to continue working with me. It is clear he is angry, though restraining himself. I’m sure it is hard to say what he’s saying to a patient he’s worked with for 6 years. Firing a patient is tough for health care professionals, but it’s also hard to fire them from my point of view, since I’ve had to do that a lot in my life.

My anxiety will settle once I get a clear response from him whether he’ll continue working with me and whether his response over "E-mail" was a coincidence applicable to all patients, or a slap in the face aimed at only me.
I think you made a good choice also. It was probably hard for you’re Dr who has been treating you to hear you wanted to try something else. I think it put him in a hard place also. If anything went wrong, it could have been a liability to him. He probably felt torn between continuing with a patient who hes been seeing and probably cares about, and having a possible death or something else bad associated with a dangerous treatment.

Either way, I think you made a good decision.

I’m real sorry about your limbo state though. I can only imagine being well enough to apear well, but ill enough to not be able to function. You say you’ve been sick for 29 years. How old are you now if you don’t mind me asking? I’ve read up on some Lyme Disease websites, and many say treatment normally "cures" it, and the course is only a few weeks. I’m curious as to how this has been taking so long. Was it not caught early enough for it to be treated succesfully? Don’t mean to pry, just curious.

You so accurately reflected exactly what I felt. Thank you for that. I feel quite alone even though I know I have support, so it helps reading this from someone else.

I think so too. I don’t like to flip flop, but I have to gauge the views people hold constantly in regards to this. I’m in a bad position.

That is where the controversy is. There are two separate medical "camps" in regards to Lyme Disease. One group says Lyme is hard to catch, easy to cure. The other group says it’s an extremely persistent infection which resists antibiotic therapy, and requires chronic antibiotic use to overcome the illness or — in some cases — suppress the illness to prevent the patients suffering. I’m sadly in the second group. I was not diagnosed soon enough. I was 9 years old when I was infected (1987), but I was not diagnosed until 2002. I’ve been ill since age 9, I’m currently turning 30 shortly. I won’t ever accept that there isn’t an answer, but I have to constantly weigh and balance cutting edge views against the backdrop.

If only I could somehow find an answer. I search endlessly. I’ve studied relentlessly and I still can’t solve this problem. The key is in some for of antibiotic, but one which is effective entirely does not appear to exist.

Go to Wikipedia and read up on Lyme Disease there, and you’ll get the full picture. You’ll be shocked, it’s disturbing.
Thats a long time to not catch it. What were the diagnosis’s for those 15 years? Man that must have been frustrating. Did they end up asking "Have you ever been bitten by a tick?" And you remembered 15 years ago you were camping or whatever? I had no idea the NE was so effected by lyme. I lived in North New Jersey for 13 years as a kid and I would run around in the woods, do normal kid stuff. Scary to think about now. I’m in a slightly anxious state right now. In reading about Lyme, I was side tracked by an article on Bell’s Palsy, read symptoms of that for about 45 minutes, so now I’m in a bit of a nervous state, so I’m gonna hold off on the Wiki of Lyme, lol. Hypochondriacs should have blocks put on any medical website, lol.

It was awfu. I fought tooth and nail to get the correct diagnosis. It turned out Lyme causes all these symptoms and these are common misdiagnosis or secondary diagnosis underlying Lyme.

Manic Depression, Clinical Depression, Anorexia, ADHD, Crohn’s Disease, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Acid Reflux, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, Mood Disorder, Social Anxiety Disorder, Insomnia, Hypoglycemia, Kidney Stones, Hypochondria, Anemia, Chronic Lyme Disease.

Here is the progression of symptoms. I’ve kept records of everything:

I had been bitten by ticks, however I didn’t remember the exact tick that bit me. I remember coming home from camping in Rhode Island, and I came down with the most diabilitating fever and pain in my legs. It was clearly connected as my health continued declining from that point forward. It happened within 2-3 weeks of returning from camping.

Yes, Lyme Disease is a very serious problem in the NE as well as other areas. The problem is that people are often misdiagnosed. So people with MS, Fibro, CFS — all sorts of things, could actually be infected, but they simply aren’t getting diagnosed. Testing is very inaccurate for Lyme, so it’s hard to pick up objectively.

Yeah, Hypochondria can be very hard to deal with.

Man, half that shit I get just from eating fajitas.
Whats odd is that almost all of those are very common for people with GAD (generalized anxiety disorder). I have had almost all of them.

A

Thats a list of your things that I also have had since my anxiety started in 2003. Just kinda weird that we’ve had many of the same symptoms.

Then perhaps it’s not generalized anxiety disorder. You’d know if it were more serious though, as you’d become disabled and the symptoms would gradually worsen.

I’m guessing the severity is worse for you on alot of those though. Like, everyone gets muscle cramps, headaches, nightmares, irritability, etc. But, Do you think the severity of the symptoms you were getting are above the average level?

Yes, but that’s also one of the reasons for the controversy, because people infected with Lyme often don’t have those symptoms to the level I do, but they’re still infected, but they are dismissed by doctors — as though it’s all in their head. That’s what happened to me. It wasn’t until I was diagnosed correctly and put on long term antibiotics that I began improving. It took years of therapy to even see consistent results where I knew I was on the right track.

No he didn’t. I really hope he does. I think he’s very angry with me. He probably feels insulted even though he says otherwise. I don’t think he thought I’d really go this far to make my own way.

Hopefully he’ll return my phone call and we can talk it out. My goal is to get well. His goal is to get me well and he’s invested a lot of time in getting me this far, so it must have felt like a slap in the face, especially knowing how dangerous the treatment is, and his experience with it.
Do you believe this doctor is invested in seeing you through this disease?

And if so, do you believe this doctor is familiar enough with the area to be able to see you through this disease.

And lastly, assuming the above two are true, when can you expect a significant remission of symptoms to the point where you are essentially either cured or at least asymptomatic?

Good luck to you.
Its normal for a human to fight and do what he has to do to survive. If a treatment is working 50%, I don’t think it was wrong that you went looking for answers and options, I think its on more of a personal level, which it shouldn’t be.

When I was in therapy for my panic attacks, I went for about 9 weeks with little to no improvement. I told my therapist I didn’t want to come anymore because I was going to try seeing a hypnotherapist. He laughed. When I asked why, he rolled his eyes and said "Hypnosis? OK, good luck with that one." I walked out. He was only making me 1% better, and that 1% was only because he said I wasn’t the only one with this. I was hypnotised ONCE and I have only had about 6 or 7 panic attacks in 5 years. Thats going from 6 or 7 a DAY for a long time. I still worry, think irrationally, and have some mild anxiety and hypochondria, but I can live with it and improve it. Before, I was desperate, scared and about to check into a hospital. About 4 months later, I went back to that therapist to tell him I was cured of my panic attacks from hypnosis and next time someone wanted to take another route, not to laugh at them. He seemed annoyed.

But, I think its normal for us as suffering humans to always seek out ways of getting healthy. I don’t think it was rude or wrong of you to want that other 50% back. I think it was rude for this to turn personal in the eyes of the Dr, because thats where I believe the tension is coming from. That and the liability. But anger? I don’t think thats justified.

Yes

Sadly I don’t think anyone is, there is too much they don’t know objectively, but if anyone is going to find an answer, he’s certainly in the top tier.

Originally it was to take 18 months, but when 18 months came and went and I hadn’t seen any improvements he simply said, "It’s unfortunate, but that’s how it is with some patients. We’ll keep going because you will see improvement eventually" of course I was bitter and said "When, seriously, when?"

I doubted his ability for a long time, doubted the diagnosis, doubted the treatment. I was so sick and I’d spent so much time researching, that I had no where else to go. I’d seen 150 + doctors. It was so painfully sad, no one had an answer beyond "I don’t know, a misdiagnosis, or a vague diagnosis only labeling a small portion of the overall disease (Acid reflux as an example, or Depression). I spent 3 1/2 years "not" seeing any meaningful results. So not only did 18 months go by, it ended up taking 30 months to see "something". Then, right around 2005 we did a round of IV antibiotics and that seemed to kick it up a notch, and I began noticing that the Tetracycline was now also working. We had chipped away enough to where I actually began to start feeling better.

When I began seeing days where I was 40% functional, I knew I was on the right track. When I was able to shower myself, and brush my teeth consistently, and I could walk around without a cane. When I began going outside for brief periods I really felt I was on the right track. When I saw 50%, I absolutely felt confident. I even peaked sometimes where I was around 60%. I could lift weights, ride my bike, do push ups. I still had a lot of symptoms and cognitive problems were always ongoing, but I was "better" — however peaks don’t last. He told me they wouldn’t, that it’s a gradual chipping away process, but then you backslid as the infection takes hold again. Gradually the infection load is reduced, but it persists.

I am improving, but we’ve invested so many years. His answer is always consistent and always the same. "Persistence is key with Chronic Lyme. It’s extremely slow, and I understand that, but keep going."

He’s been right about everything except that he could solve the problem within the original time frame. He told me that I’m unfortunately one of a small percentage who just don’t respond well to the available treatments.

Thank you Johan. I’m really desperate for an answer, but not a foolish one. I felt good about my idea, but I most certainly didn’t know where it would go and I refused to lie or hide anything. People were giving me all sorts of advice. Take the med, but don’t tell him! No fuckin’ way was I going to do that. Our relationship was solid and I trusted him enough to always be forthcoming.

In the end, I figured as long as I could stay with Dr. D and do the Levaquin, I could take the risk and if it worked, fantastic, if it didn’t I could continue on as I had. Dr. D however as you can see was seriously concerned about the danger, and he should be. He was so concerned that even though another doctor prescribed it for a different illness, he was still going to drop me! I was concerned too, but I was willing to take the risk, but I am "not" willing to do it if that means losing Dr. D.

Exactly. I’m sure Dr. D knows that. He surely felt offended, but also extremely concerned I think, because he knew I was serious. He needed to scare me I think. He has never been so curt and cold before. It was a clear hardline.

Scoffing at things which aren’t fully understood but which can do no harm is not wise. It’s a different story when you’re hooking up electric jumper cables to your nut sack thinking it will cure Cancer. Believe it or not people do things like that.

I’m skeptical about a lot of things, but being cynical is foolish.

My mother told me she could see both sides. She explained what she felt was going on with him. After she talked to me I was more willing to embrace his view. He’s certainly pissed because he saw that in-spite of his prior advice about pursuing this avenue I still arranged everything and managed to actually get the prescription. He also thinks — I’m sure — that by getting the prescription from Dr. C (Another doctor who indicated he could use Levaquin for Inflammatory Bowel Disease) that it was deception as a way to get the medication.

Dr. D and I need to talk directly, that’s what it comes down to. He won’t call me though until he is both available and not pissed.
Dude…levaquin is not dangerous. I suffer from chronic sinus infections that only levaquin gets rid of. I’ve been on it for over a month several times with no ill effect.
Dr. D responded finally. Here is what he said:

Thank you for your response.
If you feel like you’re at a plateau, we could try adding azithromycin and amantadine to the tetracycline. I think the azithromycin will be ok regards Crohn’s, but we’d have to wait and see. Otherwise, it’d be the tetracycline by itself for another few months.
Let me know if you want to try the added meds.
Best wishes for the New Year
Dr D

——

Notice he was warm and interested in my feelings. This is how we’ve always interacted. It’s always been amicable. We talk about things, you know?

My response to him:

Dr. Donta,
I appreciate the fast reply as well as your intensively persuasive
response. I realize my safety was your main concern and thus you responded
as you did. I do want to apologize to you if it seemed I was offensive in
arranging the planning and discussion of Levaquin as I did. I had no
intention of going off on my own with another physician if it meant being
disrespectful to your authority and the effort you’ve invested in my
treatment. I was extremely sensitive in explaining that to each doctor,
especially Dr. Cooke. I just needed to find out what everyone thought, as
they are my "team."

Had Dr Cooke told me the Levaquin would be used for Bartonella alone, and
that he would prescribe it, I would not have accepted it. It was pure
coincidence that he also used the drug for Inflammatory Bowel disease and
since I’d been complaining he prescribed it. Frankly I had no idea that
option existed for inflammatory bowel. I knew Flagyl and Cipro were
commonly used in fistulizing cases and that’s it. I would never undermine
or be devious in respect to your opinion and try to coax anyone on my team
into prescribing a dangerous medication.

You’ve gotten me a really long way, but there is a long way to go. I know
you know how to get me to the finish line, and I know you know I’m not
incompetent or unobjective. I may be desperate, but I’m not a fool. I hope
you respect and trust me to make the right decisions, just like I am making
this decision to continue with you in light of your hard-line warning of
Levaquin.

And of course I was entirely forthcoming in my update to you as I’ve always
been — in discussing exactly what I was doing or going to do prior to
making decisions. Your opinion was ultimately the most important and so I
listened and accepted it.

I will begin the azithromycin and amantadine. If you would fax the
prescription to the same place you’ve been filling my Tetracycline I would
appreciate it. Tell me how you want the medication used.

Sincerely,
Michael Parent
Good luck man - I’ve been through some crazy times these past almost 2 years. Strongyloides horrible staph infection gallbladder out every test under the sun hang in there I just started Cipro for 2 weeks

I started Cipro first then I got to Levaquin a little later then augmentin and then prednisone so much crap but here is to getting better!
OMG, I am so sorry that I missed this thread when it was originally posted.

I could call the doctors I mentioned before to you and get their opinion on the Zithromax and amantadine if you like. (As well as the Levaquin, just out of curiosity).

I know that you and Dr D have built a long standing relationship with your health. I am sure the reason he responded in the way he did is because if the Levaquin cause any serious damage then he would feel somewhat responsible. I know it is very difficult for any GOOD doctor to threaten to fire a patient (especially one they have built such a good repore with) but they will do whatever is necessary (tough love thing) to ensure the well being of their patients.

I am very glad that the two of you can work past this and continue to try new and safer ways to treat your illness.

I can not even begin to imagine what you are going through or how you are feeling. I want you to know though, I am here if you need someone to talk to or lend that helping hand in any way I can. You may feel alone with your illness, but you are not alone when it comes to support.

Hell, even if you are just angry and need someone to yell at/to, PM me (I’m really good at not taking things to heart when someone is angry and lashing out…lot’s of experience with that in the field I’m in.)

I know this is not the way you want to be an inspiration to others, but you have to remember, to go though any struggle and not give up and continue to fight, that DOES take a lot of courage and strength and that in itself is truly inspiring to others to not give up no matter how hard the battle.

I wish you all the luck Metallic, even though I don’t know you personally, you seem to be a very good and caring person and you deserve the best that life has to offer you. Again, if there is anything I can do to help, please do not hesitate to let me know.

Don’t worry about it.

Levaquin is a no-go, but I have been using the Zithromax and Amantadine. I’m about 2 weeks in and I’m getting a Herxheimer reaction. I feel like shit. You can ask the doctors about their opinions on that combination if you wish. Always interesting to hear from others.

You’re right.

I won’t stop until I beat it. I’ve had to take risks and go in the direction that was likely to have the best probability of giving me a solution. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong.

I’m fine really. This has been a battle for 2 decades and the worst is over. I’m on the upswing, it’s just a matter of how long it’ll takes until I’m functional and consistent. This last two months I’ve been disabled and homebound.

Thanks, but seriously I’ve had my cheese and my whine and spilled my guts in the past to people who had no answers. No one could possibly understand what this condition is like except those who endure it, so I don’t talk about it emotionally. Everything is intellectualized and debated

If I have something to say about the deeper feelings I have I say it to one or two people, or my doctors and counselor.

Of course it’s not the way I want it. If others are inspired, good for them. I don’t want a pat on the back for surviving.

"Let the right say I was wrong, let the weak say I was strong, it won’t be long, until I’m gone beyond the setting sun." - JF

In the end, I’m just using what I was given. I’ll do it until I die. Everyone is doing that, given their model of the world. Weak, strong, right, wrong, we all meet the same fate.

I do what is in my best interest, it’s just a coincidence that other people are influenced by it. Either I’ll accomplish the results I’m trying to create or I won’t, but I hardly deserve it more than you or anyone else. You get what you get, and you use it to your ability.

I sincerly hope this medication cures you, and that your recovery will be fast and safe from here on. I look forward to reading your updates.
I just wanted to add to the thread, although it’s past due, that it looks like you’re really doing your research rather than sitting around and being depressed about your situation and I really wanted to commend you on that. For someone who is weak from your condition you sound like a really strong person. My prayers are definitely with you and keep us updated you’ll be on my mind and in my heart.
Stay strong and positive. I hope you find a therapy that works for you.

I just had a bite from a tick a few days ago, I found it within 3 hours of it attaching it’s self and it’s now being tested. I’m on the westcoast, so only around 2% of ticks carry lyme. I’ll be fine though.
Good luck man, I think your taking the correct approach being pro-active, its exactly what my friend OT’er Steve Cronin did that landed him a diagnosis for a lymes infection (of which you helped him a great deal insofar as I can tell)

Best of luck

Yeah, Steve’s case bothered me quite a bit. I was confident in the diagnosis, but at the same time very worried that he wasn’t responding to earlier treatments. A lot of people here on OT, in his personal life and in his medical visits to physicians were telling him the diagnosis was basically wrong or they kept pushing other alternatives. Not only did it bother me, but it was very hard on him, he didn’t really know what to do and was being pulled back and forth. I think he took a big risk coming to Massachusetts, and spending the type of money he has to chase what others for the most part said was a ghost that some one he didn’t know on Off-topic was adamant about. I knew he’d respond to an antibiotic, I just wasn’t sure which one.
Wow, it’s too late for me to read the whole thread right now, but I read the first couple of posts and want to say something before I go to sleep. I had no idea man, though I see you post in here all the time.

I hope it works out for you sir.
I hope the day when you are free of this nightmare comes soon.

My troubles are tiny in comparison to yours, and your challenge has helped me gain some perspective on it. I thank you for this, and I once again wish you good luck.

Ever seen the Shawshank Redemption? It got me through my hardest times, perhaps it will help you as well.

Cheers.

Maybe I’m just having a bad day, I don’t know, but I feel like screaming at the top of my lungs. I hate this fucking disease, I hate that I’ve done everything in my power to beat it, and I hate that it’s hurting so many people.

I just need to say this, I need to yell and scream and just get angry. I’m so frustrated! I’m really really fuckin’ frustrated. And it’s not even about the letters, it’s just — it’s so overwhelming. It literally brings tears to my eyes how awful my life has been because of Lyme, how awful it must be affecting other people, and I feel so powerless sometimes to protect myself, never mind others, from what it’s done. I just want the pain to stop, and I want to fix the pain others are feeling — but I can’t do it all, I can’t expect that. I can’t even expect that I can fix myself. It hurts so God damn much.

I just, I don’t know — I just needed to say how I felt here, because it hurts a lot facing this. I’ve fought for so many years just to survive and I suddenly feel so weak. I don’t feel like the "strong" person everyone tells me I am. I feel tired, weak, exhausted. I feel like breathing takes more energy than I have right now.

I know somebody with Lyme disease. She is very young (~21). She doesn’t know I know she has Lyme. I’ve heard her talk sometimes about being ill all the time and hearing it made me very, very sad.

You’re trying to raise awareness, and this woman’s concerns are … what, exactly?

There’s a great deal of pain in the world, some from nature, some from simple selfishness, some from religion, but there’s a lot of good and a LOT of potential for good.

It silently breaks my heart every time I hear of someone else with it. I don’t show it much, but that’s what happens.

The quotes above in my last post with the bold, include her letters. It’s not even that she’s off. She’s accurate in what she’s saying - I’m just so overwhelmed by how to do the project. I guess her letter triggered my feelings. It brings up the truth that hundreds of thousands of people are affected when I do this project. People who are really hurting, you know, and I don’t want to fuck up and make it worse.

I just want to be apart of the good for once. You know? Make a difference and not be consumed in the process.
It a new day, and I’m pissed off as usual. I’ve been on the Azithromycin and Amantadine for about a month or so. I feel like shit, and I’m having my doubts as to whether it will work.

God I’m frustrated. Just needed to say that. I’m trying and trying to make this work but it appears I have a limited amount of options.

1: Stay with Donta, hope for the best with whatever treatments he tosses my way.
2: Spend some money and get expensive blood testing through specialty labs which lack credibility but may tell me more about what I’m facing and why I’m not improving.
3: Find a new doctor who will in most likely hood charge me a lot more, and I won’t be able to keep up financially which will lead to my bankrupcy.

I’m in a shit position. My girlfriend asked me today "Would you be willing to go behind your doctors back and treat other medication that may work?" I simply said I couldn’t be dishonest like that, not as long as I have a working relationship with him. If that relationship ends, then fine, but I won’t be deceitful.

I’m trapped in a fuckin’ prison, and I can’t seem to get out.

So, you have seen no improvement at all?

I know this must be very difficult for you right now. Sometimes we run into a dead end and we just have to turn around and try to find the next aisle to go down in the maze. It can be very frustrating but eventually we can make it through. You are NOT defeated here. There is a solution, you just haven’t found it YET. I know that you WILL find the solution because you ARE strong and you will not give up the fight right?

You know I have been told by several doctor’s before that when a doctor has a patient for a long period of time, they (unintentionally) become too close to the patient and their circumstance. When this happens they sometimes try to hang on to the patient, try other things they are not really sure about, or can’t admit (due to either ego or feeling like a failure) they have run out of ideas because they truly want to help their patient. Unfortunately, this can ultimately hinder or even harm the patient. This is why, when you have a serious illness and your MD seems to have run out of ideas, it is a wise to seek out a new doctor to get a fresh perspective and possibly new ideas on methods of treatment. This can be a very scary thing to do because of fear of the unknown and fear of getting your hopes up only to be let down again. However, when it appears that you and your doctor have reached some sort of plateau, you have to ask yourself if you are willing to remain only 50% better and accept that or do you want to take the risk of being let down again to have some sort of chance to actually get 60-90% better or possibly cured?

I truly wish there was an easier way to deal with your situation or better advise I could give you to help. Hang in there, don’t give up, you will win this fight (I have faith). Only you can decide what path to travel at this point, however if you need someone to lean on or a helping hand along that path, remember you have friends and family that care about you to lend you those things if needed.
No improvement that I’ve seen Punky but it can take awhile longer, and you’re right. And Z, thanks for writing me back. I’m looking at alternative testing sites now, trying to find labs that I believe can do the job correctly to test for somethings that may have come along for the ride with the Lyme Disease.

It’s possible a co-infection is present that just isn’t being resolved. It could be something else entirely. I’m financially trying to work out the issue now.

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She talks about how her husband isn’t really there for her, they don’t see each other much, and rather than stay home with her when they are both off, would want to go party with people he doesn’t like. She says she wished he thought like I did. She has this second job as well, and has been wanting me to go work with her there, which I ended up doing. Now I see her everyday, and it hurts like fuck dealing with this and knowing she is married. She invites me to do things with her and her friends, and soon me and her are doing something together, a memorial for her religion or something, which her husband would never do because he is a different religion than her and doesn’t really support her in that way. I’ve never met her husband, and other than talking about his problems, and other things he has in common with me, she doesn’t really mention him much. She trys to get us alone to talk to each other quite often.

She is amazing and seems like the girl of my dreams… I know she likes me a lot, as a friend at least, and I would never give that up. I would also NEVER do anything romantic/sexual with her unless she admitted she was getting out of her current relationship. I am just trying to deal with the pain here, and it gets really difficult, ruins my day sometimes. I try to tell myself, ‘oh she is not my type’, ‘remember? she is MARRIED and TWENTY SEVEN’, ‘Your young, youll find someone more suited for you eventually, you have plenty of time, forget about her in this respect’. I know the best option would be to distance myself from her, but I am already pretty close to her, and I will not do that. I am one of twp of her GOOD friends, besides another girl from work.

I know exactly what I should do, but every time I see/talk to her, it gets more difficult. I am capable of forcing shit from my mind, but this has become incredibly difficult… Writing this out makes me feel a lot better, as I have not told anyone about my feelings for her, as most of my other friends know her, or know a friend that knows her, and it could get around and cause problems, we don’t need that drama… anyway, thanks for reading, and opinion/suggestions are welcome.
This isn’t going to end well for either of you, and you know that. Like you said, you know what you NEED to do. I suggest you follow that.

If you choose not too, that is up to you, but know that your heart will get stomped on in the process.

Best of luck to you
I say, to avoid any drama that you are not prepared for (confronting her husband, and maybe getting into physical/legal battles over it), it is better to define your relationship with her now. Like you said, if she is not committed to leaving her husband, don’t harbor any more illusion and make it clear with her that it is only friendship. It will probably really hurt you a lot, but this is a lot better than getting into the murky water of breaking up a marriage, especially at your age.
ugh.

I hate hearing stories like this, because it just makes me think of how many steps of escalation I can point out to the individual.

Just as a general rule of thumb: if you find yourself attracted to someone, and it’s not going to work out, minimize contact. Since you work with her, you will have to see her, but there should be NO reason to need to continue talking to her outside of work or texting her.

It’s good you realize that you and her would never work…her saying she wants to be with you or what not is not truly what she feels. She is probably just lonely, reaching out, and enjoying the attention from you and the feeling of flirting with another man.

On the other hand, you need to own up to the fact that you allowed your attraction to build to the point where it is causing you grief. You can’t fall for someone unless you make a choice to do so at some point.
thanks all. i know what i need to do, but its hard to actually do it
Odds are you’ll get burnt but you gotta play the hand you’ve got. I’ll disagree with the people here and say that you might as well give it a shot if she’s into it. Her marriage sucks and it isn’t going to last anyway, I wouldn’t feel bad about that. Just don’t develop some notion in your mind that she’s going to be available to you right away, or even at all, ever, because she is married.

This is most likely the route I will take. I absolutely will NOT do anything with her sexually/romantically unless she gets out of the marriage, but I will stay friends with her, even though it means a lot of pain for some time, and nothing is guaranteed. If it comes down to it, I’ll explain just that notion to her, and it will be up to her whether anything comes of it. For now, I guess I will have to keep her off my mind.
You can take this or leave it but I say this from experience DISTANCE YOURSELF IMMEDIATELY!!!, if not you will only torture yourself down the road and it gets REAL ugly.

yep. I know someone who was once in the same position you’re in now. He wishes he would have run away the second her married ass started flirting with him. No good sir, no good!
You are her re-bound. Her husband doesn’t pay attention to her so she is using you for attention and to build up strength to leave him possibly. Either way it will turn out bad…REALLY bad. NEVER get involved with someone who is currently in a relationship or just recently out of one PERIOD!!!!
anyone have aim here, i would like to talk more about this if possible, and its much easier that way

pimpinpenguin050 ( i like penguins, and thought a pimpin penguin would be funny, so sue me =P )

anyway ill update this if anything happens, as i see her every day. i want to push her out of my mind, which i have done before, but still remains good friends with her. hard as fuck, but i will not strand her like that. im one of two of her only good friends…

cool, im off to bed though, hopefully we can talk tomorrow sometime
thanks

ahhhh that mentality, I remember that. Good luck man, for your own good just remember what I said.

no problem, ill be online on and off throughout the day.

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Do you show him the same amount of affection you would like? You need to communicate with him. Let him know what’s bothering you. Shouldn’t you be thinking about this before he became your fiancee?? I mean a fiancee is someone who you’re getting married too…Can you honestly say that you can live with him for the rest of your life. Truly loving someone for who they are, flaws and all, is not the same as loving someone for who they can become. So, please talk to him and get this situation fixed right away.

Love is a verb in my opinion. Knowing is not enough, you must be willing, willing is not enough, you must do. Clearly being passive, timid and meek about expressing yourself hasn’t shocked him into the reality of the relationship.

You can’t change who he is obviously, but you can set definitive boundaries by changing yourself and tell ing him how you feel. When you change, others are forced to adapt or they’re forced to leave. Here are some basic outlines of how you could approach it:

You: You know I love you, and I express it in a different way than you, right?
Him: Yeah.
You: And I know you love me and you communicate that in your own way.
Him: Right.
You: I feel disrespected and unhappy when you say, A,B, C, or don’t say A,B,C
Him: (Either he’ll listen or he’ll defend himself)

If he listens, continue:

You: From now on I will not tolerate being told A,B,C, nor feeling neglected and that is my boundaries.
Him: Ok, I didn’t realize. Blah blah.

If he defends himself:

You: I’m really not interested in explanations, I feel how I feel, and from now on I expect to be treated like This, This and This. I will not tolerate disrespect from anyone, but especially from the man I love.
Him: (If he gets pissed and starts yelling or arguing, walk away, if he just accepts it great)

And at the end:

You: Oh and another thing, Love is a verb. I expect to be shown affection, and told I’m loved. That’s the bare minimum, and I won’t accept anything less.
Man, i can’t believe people run into these kind of issues. Any relationship i’ve ever been in it’s always been over-appreciative.
You know, that sounds a lot like my situation, only the situation is reversed. Being the oldest in her family, my wife had grown up being accustomed to barking out orders and running the family… they weren’t a really lovey-dovey type of family either so they didn’t share a lot of nurturing, huggy type positive reinforcement as well.

So that’s kind of crossed over into our relationship… she sometimes crosses the line in terms of barking out orders to me and there are some periods where she’s not affectionate enough for me as well.

I think part of it involves understanding — I know it may be because she’s tired and frustrated from work. I know perhaps she’s just so used to taking the leadership role in her own family she’s assuming the same role in our relationship.

The other part just involves regularly discussing this with your partner. There have been a few times where I’ve just put my foot down and said "Look, I feel I need more respect…I’m willing to do A, B, & C, for you, but you do need to ask me in a way that treats me like an equal partner" You just need to make yourself heard once in a while. Know when to push back when you need to.
As far as the affection goes, well…I’m still working on that myself. I’ve come to learn that my partner is more affectionate under different conditions, but when I really pay attention to the details I can see she shows me she loves me in many other ways.

I think if you’re looking to change his character (e.g. needing him to hold your hands when maybe he may not be comfortable showing public affection for instance), this may be a difficult thing to do overnight if ever at all. But talk it out, and be careful not to let this eat away at you so that it builds into ugly insecurity.
have you gained weight or stopped wearing make up around him?

Spend a little time on yourself and he’ll notice, or he’ll notice the looks other guys give you hah. That’ll bring him around.

I’ve actually lost some weight. I’m pretty much always conscious about what I look like so I almost always wear make up. I once asked him what he would think if some guy was hitting on me and he said he would laugh. So he’s obviously not the jealous type.

Or the caring type

Run.
But then again, lot of girls like a man who doesnt care

Not me…I want him to be jealous. But no guy has ever actually hit on me so I don’t know for sure what he would really do if someone did. I turn 21 next month so I’m sure I’ll find out once I’m able to go to the bars.

I’m not really the jealous type but if I see a guy thats getting a bit friendly with my girl I make my presence known.

This is instinctual for most.

Right, instinctual for EVERYONE, whenever any man hit on any of the girls i’ve dated i’ve always made it blatently obvious to go the fuck away..

Some girls like that, some girls dont..

Ditto, and if they try to pull that pick-up artist shit with me trying to "disarm the obstacle", then I get mean. I know my own game.

@ 6′5” 240lbs I don’t have to do much but stand there

my girl calls me her "silverback", I guess also to note on my primal instinct.

This explains it all. This is the first real relationship for both of you and you guys are too young to recognize when things are over. This guy is giving you plenty of signs that he is no longer into the relationship but you are not experienced enough to see them.

This is why people always say not to get married/engaged so young. You are obviously not happy here and you are settling for this guy because you haven’t experienced anything else. I bet if I asked you why you are with him you would just give excuses like "I love him" or "we’ve been through so much together". Loving someone is not a reason to stay in a relationship, you can still love him and care about him after you break up. And you will go through lots of things with lots of people in your life, that’s still no reason to be with someone when you aren’t happy. This guy is not going to change once you get married, things will only get worse.

again

Your advice is spot on tonight my friend.
I find it sad that people get so far and deep into a relationship when something as small as "he doesn’t show me affection" and "he doesn’t show me any appreciation" are not small insignificant things at all! They are actually the kinds of things that can make or break a relationship.

When someone in a relationship craves and needs affection to feel loved and the other SO knows that but reciprocate it that’s not necessarily their fault…but no one should be expected to change these things about themselves. You’re just different from each other in that way. However, either they love you enough to work on it, or they don’t.

Sounds to me like you are settling because he’s your first real love and you are young. I know you’ll battle this fact to the ends of the earth, but it still has to be said. You need to really sit him down and talk about what’s bugging you.

He could be completely oblivious to the fact that he’s unappreciative of you…or he could know and really not be into the relationship anymore.

Edit:

Yikes, after reading this comment of yours in the "moving in with my gf" thread it’s pretty apparent you guys are having issues. You need to have your own life. Living together with your SO does not mean you are together all day everyday. He might be getting sick of you. You have to have hobbies, a job, a life of your own outside him. This may definitely be why he’s lost a lot of affection. You guys really need to talk.

I actually think you’re jumping to conclusions. First of all, this is not his first relationship. He dated a girl for about a year before he started dating me. Oh and I posted something else in the forum about being afraid to move in together that will clear up a little bit too. Also, I never said I thought he wasn’t interested in the relationship anymore. He asked me to marry him, and trust me, he’s not the type of person to ask someone to marry him if he wasn’t interested anymore. He knows what he wants and doesn’t want, and if he doesn’t want something, he says so. All I was originally trying to get at was that I wish he would be more affectionate. And I guess maybe I should have said this before, but the reason he always points out that I never clean up the house or anything is because I don’t. So he’s absolutely right about that. It’s not completely him that’s the problem. And I’ve actually just realized this over the last few days since I started this. So I decided to make a change in myself. Tuesday I washed and folded all of the towels, did the dishes, took out the trash, and cleaned the bedroom. He was thrilled. Doing that actually made him more affectionate towards me. So I think I figured out that the reason he seemed like he didn’t care as much is because he was probably upset about always having to be the one to do everything around the house. I would be upset about that too if I were him. Someone earlier asked if I was showing him the affection that I wanted him to show me. And the truth is, I wasn’t. I can’t be upset at him for never holding my hand or hugging me or anything if I don’t do it to him either. So yesterday I wanted to try that out. I left a short I love you note for him to find before he went to class. Even just that helped a little. So I think I need to work on changing myself, and most likely this will help the situation. I don’t want people to think that I’m trying to change him. I love him more than anything. I just want the relationship to go back to how it was when we first started dating. But I know that relationships don’t stay in the phase where everything is new and exciting. But it would be nice if they could.
Oh and also, you guys are right. I do need to sit down and talk to him about it. It’s hard though, because talking about his feelings is not one of his strong points. He didn’t grow up in a household where they communicated and shared their feelings and stuff. But I will talk to him about it because communication is one of the most important things in a relationship.

Here are two resources I think you and your boyfriend can read. Print a copy out for each of you, sit at the table, read them. Then discuss things using the information you learned. This will help you both communicate, while also setting appropriate boundaries.

Boundaries -

Communication -

I knew you’d say something like that. High school relationships are not real relationships, that means nothing.

No you didn’t say that, the rest of us can see that from your post. He would laugh if a guy hit on you? That’s not what a guy that’s really into you would do. Why exactly would he be laughing? Does he think you aren’t that attractive so the idea of a guy actually wanting to hit on you is a complete joke to him?

Well that’s good that you are doing something about yourself instead of just putting all the blame on him.

Things like this are why all of us say that these young relationships are destined to fail. You haven’t had enough experience to understand how relationships go. You assume that things will just be happy and fun forever without any work involved and that’s just not the way things go. You have to be realistic about things. It takes a lot more than just love for a relationship to work.
dont try to make him jealous. thats just childish.

why dont you plan a date for him for saturday? line up a restaurant and maybe a fun thing to do after. then while on the date suggest that it should be a weekly thing and he should plan it next time.

my gf and i still go on dates after 3 years now. i plan the 1st friday every month and she does the 3rd. rules are person planning the date has to set everything up and it has to be outside somewhere.

give it a shot?
He would laugh if a guy hit on you? That’s not what a guy that’s really into you would do. Why exactly would he be laughing? Does he think you aren’t that attractive so the idea of a guy actually wanting to hit on you is a complete joke to him?

He says he would laugh but I don’t know that he actually would if we were really in that situation. I honestly think he said it just to mess with me. I actually have been hit on before and he walked up and put his arm around me. So I mean he probably would at least do that. I wouldn’t want him to come over and start a fight.

Things like this are why all of us say that these young relationships are destined to fail. You haven’t had enough experience to understand how relationships go. You assume that things will just be happy and fun forever without any work involved and that’s just not the way things go. You have to be realistic about things. It takes a lot more than just love for a relationship to work.[/quote]

Our relationship is not destined to fail. It’s hard for me to explain it to you because you’re not there when we’re together. I know you think that I’m just being naive, and I don’t blame you. But I can tell that he loves me and that he wants to be with me. I have no way of convincing you of that because we don’t know each other so you don’t know anything about our relationship other than what I’ve told you. I really do appreciate your input though. And I will keep it in mind. But I’m not going to end it just because you think it’s destined to fail.

Oh I would never try to make him jealous. You’re right that would be childish and it would probably just get us into a fight.

The date idea is really good. The problem is that we really don’t have the money to go out every week. We live on our own and are both in school so it’s hard to come up with the money to go out a lot. But I’m sure we could figure something out. Or I could cook him dinner and we could go eat it in a park or something. Thanks for the idea!

So play cards, or a board game together. Do a crossword puzzle, play chess, make a special dinner with things from your freezer and cupboard that you usually don’t use. Read a book to each other.

The list is huge for things you can do at home together on a cheap budget.

Those are great ideas. I had thought of a game and puzzles but you gave me even more suggestions. Thanks!

There are websites with lists of things to do with your partner at home. Romantic things, fun things, all sorts. Search engine "Things to do at home"

Well to give you an idea of what we’ve done….dinner at a place in Venice Beach at a place where we can split a huge plate for $20 and then we sat on top of a parking lot by LAX playing a guessing game as to what brand the airline coming in was. You dont need to have tons of money.

Also good ideas. We are planning a trip to Kansas City next month for just the two of us. Just getting away from our normal daily routine should help too. And there will be a hot tub in the hotel room which is also a bonus

I took my girlfriend, or should I say my ex — to Cape Cod here in Mass. Right on the beach, hot tub in the room etc. 9 times, 24 hours, no shit.

yeah i had an ex who complained at one point that i wasn’t being affectionate enough for her. i learned its easy to say ok i will be in the future but then to forget about it. it took going out of town and doing more cuddling when we were alone and that was that. after being with someone for so long i guess you gotta be careful taking things for granted
You are way too young to get married…but unfortunately, you won’t realize that for a few more years.
I can’t contribute much in the way of advice, but pick up a copy of The five love languages by Gary Chapman. It really opened my eyes to the way people communicate and interact and made a considerable difference in my relationship with my SO.

Best of luck to you

I HATE when people say that. In the past people got married when they were like 14. The actual age doesn’t really matter. As long as you can be committed, responsible, financially stable, and everything else, why does it matter how old you are. I’ll be 22 when I get married. I have a great job that I could turn into a career if I want to, I will be out of college, I have enough money to support myself, and I’m mature enough to know what I want. My age isn’t a factor.

But also, people who lived in the past and got married at ridiculous ages were usually miserable when they were older and just stayed married because divorce either wasn’t even an option, or it was a shameful thing to do…It’s not as if couples in the early to mid-1900’s were all blissfully happy.

I’m just saying is all.

I’m not overly cynical of marriage. It all depends on the type of marriage you’ll have, and whether it’s right for you. Me personally, my marriage will be a celebration for "one" day of the love I share before those around me all at once to witness. That day will otherwise be no different than the days before it. I will not make promises I know I can’t keep before people I may never see again, I can’t commit to vows which ask me to do what love itself could never ask from a human being.

I will do my very best to wake each day and for that one day, let my partner know I love them, until a days comes when I no longer may. And no one should curse me for it if that days comes.

The irony is, people think committing to a lifelong promise binds people closer together. The reality is that it has nothing to do with moving you closer. In-fact it’s quite the opposite, it often moves you further apart as a result of contractual obligation, of "having to" during periods when you may not feel that strong love, or maybe don’t feel it at all. If you don’t feel it much, you don’t have to feel like you should feel otherwise because of a promise made 23 years ago. You can say "Hey I don’t feel this today….and that’s fine. Maybe tomorrow you will, or maybe you’ll figure out the reasons or how to turn it around."

If you love someone, you love them because "you " are bonded to them inside, emotionally, not because you’re obligated.

I like the way you put that and I completely agree with it.
Love is different and experienced differently by everyone and the truth is, is that we all need it. In my 50 odd years of being on this planet, if there is one thing I could advise two people who love one another is that they communicate on ALL levels and to read "Loving Each Other" by Leo Buscaglia. His insights into the thing called "love" are remarkable.

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Going to his funeral later today… it feels so weird

I still didn’t expect it… he was just too young. I really thought he was okay

What was it?

He had heart problems, as well muscular dystrophy.

But he always appeared stable to me, because he was always under care.
A while ago he was rushed to critical care, and we all rushed there too, but he came out okay… that was the most near-death situation.

I’m just thinking about it right now, and with all he’s gone through…
He was 23, and been living with both illnesses for the majority of his life. He couldn’t do 3/4 of what a normal kid could do growing up. Yet he never complained to me and he always looked content and accepting.

This is just too weird. I hope he knows how much I miss him bc this is hard.
That really blows- I am so sorry for your loss Daneeyah
Thanks everyone, I appreciate your replies.

I’m feeling much better than before
Well in his memory, when you’re able to, make a donation to some MD foundation. I’m sure he didn’t want you to worry about him though… and now at least he is free of his pain. Good luck to you daneeyah.
Oh jeez…I’m so sorry to hear this Daneeyah.

You know it’s very common to think everything will be ok. I mean, we all know people that from time to time get sick but always seem to pull through. And yeah 23 is too young to be so sick and then to pass away….that’s really sad.

But you know, the illnesses you’re describing, it might be more of a blessing for him even if it’s very difficult on those left behind.

I’m also convinced that those who pass know how much we cared for them and how much we miss them….even if we aren’t always able to express those feelings or even always act in accordance with them.

Hang in there my friend.
That really sucks to hear. I’m sorry for your loss. Hopefully you have the strength to get through this. Remember we are always here with an open ear.
Thanks you guys.. your replies are really helpful and comforting to read.

I went to the funeral, and seriously everyone was either crying or tearing.
The mother stayed strong, but she also looked really out of it and sort of in a daze.

I felt better after the funeral for some reason… even though it still hasn’t hit me. I guess I’m numb right now which is sort of good and bad at the same time.

Stuff like this just gets you thinking about life more than anything… its just so weird how the cycle of life is. I overheard one of the ladies there telling another that, "we are all just waiting our turn".
And I guess it got me thinking about how one day I’m gonna be in that coffin and people will be crying (I hope) over me.
I dunno, just a rant…

But thanks again and again for all your support and replies, it really means more than you know.
I am sorry for your loss, I have been down this road many times over the last couple of years. I wish your heart a speedy recovery.

Thanks you two.
I’m feeling much better.. it’s sunken in now.
I saw his sisters today.. they’re being really strong.

One of his sisters was actually overseas, and she just flew in this morning.
Crazy thing is, she found out through facebook.
Apparently one of her friends wrote on her wall, "I’m sorry about the death of your brother"… and she had no idea what was going on til’ she called her mom.

I can’t imagine finding out about the death of one of my brothers or family members that way… o man
It’s not fun to lose a friend, that’s for sure. Went through that about a year and a half ago. I hope all goes well for you and I wish the best for his family.

I truely am sorry for your loss.

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she’s trying to get back in it right now but i’m having mixed feelings for her because i can’t trust her worth a shit. recently she sent a huge message via facebook when i didn’t answer her calls/texts after getting off with her and telling her that i didn’t love her and the reasons why i didn’t.

that’s the most honest she’s ever been with me up front. i want to trust her but even after her coming up here for a few nights a couple times within the past couple of weeks i still don’t think i can. she communicates only when she wants to communicate, when i want to talk she never has "time."

really, this is mostly a vent. if you read all of that, tell me what you think from the limited knowledge of our background that i’ve given. if you didn’t but have totally written off people in the past and overcome their repeated "attacks" to get back into your life only to put you on an emotional roller coaster, tell me how.
if you stop being a people pleaser you will be happier…. take up a hobby and be GENUINELY BUSY…. too busy for her.

i have hobbies but they’re expensive

i need to get another job, my personal life was better when i was working. was a good balance, made me appreciate good times more.

ok i read it

ok the girls a whore dating Josh and Matt? Sweet friend….

she just lied… she compared the 2 of you….

she seems desperate. i dont know if you will be happier or not without her. but i think that you guys have some differences that you will never completely recover from

she was married to josh. matt was their roommate. she fucked matt when she told josh she was getting a divorce in november, which was right when she started to force her way back into my life after more than a year of no contact.

i know she’s a liar, that’s why i don’t trust her. she said she’s loved me since she met me 6 years ago but she’s fucked 4 guys since.

at one point, yes i did love her. i loved her as much as i could with her being in a relationship with someone else, if that makes sense. i genuinely don’t love her anymore. i care about her in the sense that i wouldn’t wish physical harm upon her and some as a friend but i realize its better to blow her off completely as she’s never brought me any good. my problem is that i can’t ignore her forever. she gives up after a while but always comes back.
wow she seems like a good decision maker. 4 guys in her life ever isnt bad though…. you dont need to be her ‘fall back guy’

what you do need is a girlfriend who’s not her.

its hard to swear people off like that; the best you can do is let them run free and live their life. but you can untangle yourself from them too. the only way for you to keep her out of your life is to ACTIVELY AVOID HER. Meaning, call screening. dont reply to that facebook message….. etc

Rule: Always trust your gut, if you think something is wrong, something is.

Rule: Be ruthless in cutting off users, losers and abusers. If someone confuses you constantly, it’s a red flag. Here is the list of red flags:

– Red Flags Avoid these people with these patterns: Abusive parents, abusive ex-husbands, abusive ex-boyfriends, alcoholism, drugs, talks about ex on first, second dates, negativity, disrespectful, confuses you, arrogance/condescending, Cheated in past, self-centered, Breaks Dates, Makes excuses, lies, cusses a lot, No Class, Inflexible, Distrusting, Bitter, Nags, gossips. Women who say something, but their actions and body language reflect different signals. Women with low self-esteem, fixated on money, or have psychological problems, or psychiatric problems. Remember, life isn’t fair. I personally fall into some of these areas, and I’d expect a female to be ruthless in cutting me off too if she felt I wouldn’t be a good mate for her.

Rule:

1: Never go back
2: She hasn’t changed.
3: You’re going to get hurt some more.

See red flags.

By realizing the drama they create isn’t worth the cost to benefit. Everything is a cost to benefit ratio with me. I want to be "in the green" with my relationships, just like with my money, not emotionally and psychologically in the red. Emotional bankruptcy is something you can prevent, but you have to recognize when it’s time to cut a losing stock, just like a losing relationship.

I’ve seen guys in the stock market wait and wait, and wait hoping the stock will go back up, only to see it become worthless eventually and then they get pissed off because the stock market fucked them over. Bullshit, they fucked themselves over. They weren’t willing to let go of a loser. You have to see the sign of the times. You have to investigate the company behind the stock carefully to make sure it has substance (the company), to make sure it’s not just an over-valued piece of shit stock that’s going to crash because there is no intrinsic value. The same goes for the women in your life and your friends. You have to keep detached until and investigate until you’re ready to invest. People get too attached to bullshit stocks just like bullshit people.

Relationships are the same way. What does a woman have to offer me? What does a friend have to offer me? What is their intrinsic value and character? Are they going to come through for me when shit hits the fan? Is this stock going to stay strong even when the market is going into a recession? I’m all for investing in my relationships, but they have to cost less than they benefit me. I must get a lot out of it, not just headaches and stress.
I’ll be writing this cute little post as though I’m you, it helps it flow better. After reading it, I was actually compelled to respond from an outside point of view, because I saw exactly what she was trying to do, and man did it get under my skin.

She’s a user, a very sneaky one and the gullible and naive easily fall prey. She’s an emotional vampire, seriously, and she’ll drain anyone she comes in contact with nice and slowly.

Of course you don’t agree with it, because it’s the truth. Vampires don’t like holy water, superman doesn’t like kryptonite, stupid bitches don’t like truth. See how it works cutie?

Because you’re a liar and I don’t trust liars.

You thought wrong.

The guys at OT told me that it’s a red flag when girls bring up ex-boyfriends. They’re right.

And yet, why is it I don’t believe you? Hmmm

Never want to be with him,……but you slept with him, interesting.

You’re a lying whore, and you intentionally brought it up because you know that I know that it’s going to fuck with my head, but OH no, not this time.

Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it, what do you think I am, fuckin’ stupid?

No, I’m not a douche bag like you, I actually "like" people.

Because I feel what I feel. Feelings are like smoke alarms. When they go off there is a god damn good reason, because there is fuckin’ smoke!

So you’re saying you fuck insubstantial people.

It’s February 18th, not June 19th, so obviously we have a problem you stupid bitch.

No, what makes me insecure is that you’re speaking in womanese. What I hear is "I am, am, am getting back together with him, and he’s better than you, that’s why I keep bringing him up, and trust me, we don’t just have history, we have "a present" too, I hope that’s understandable."

Translation from Womanse to logic: "I’m telling you, I will be fuckin’ him soon enough, just thought you should know."

1 time, shame on you. Second time, shame on me. Slut.

Actions speak louder than words, which is obviously true because I can’t hear a word you’re saying, but then again I have my hands over my ears and I’m hoping you spontaneously combust into a million skittles in front of a group of fat kids.

I bet you say that to all the ladies, er… I mean nice guys.

I’m looking for a bridge I can’t burn down, but you’re too quick for me, someone call the fire department.

You’re an idiot, seriously. Manipulative cunt.

That or until you test negative for Syphillis.

Translation: "I want to get on, get off, and get out. I want to find a guy I can use, and abuse, something that can handle not only my bullshit, but also betrayl, deception, confusion, negativity, drama, as well as what can only be defined as an irrational need for attention."

Translation continued: "And like me because I’m cute but have absolutely not substance or value besides being his filthy cum receptable for the population paste his best friend will be injecting into me on a regular basis without him knowing."

Of course you’re happy, because you’re making me miserable.

That’s because you have no soul.

And that’s exactly what you want to do to me, but I’m not some blind bumbling dipshit who is going to fall into your little trap.

Oh you realized it. You knew exactly what you were doing and it’s the same thing you’re trying to do to me right now, and that’s fuck me up.

Typical, taking no responsibility. Boo hoo "Oh poor me, I know I did wrong, BUT……………….I’m the victim, it’s his fault."

Clearly, I wish I could go back in time and kick your mother in the stomach while she was pregnant with you.

Funny you mention footprints, because everytime I come in contact with you, I’m covered in them!

And your vagina.

Come on now, we know a couple girls have made you who you are too. *wink wink*

No, you like to hear about my past so you can use it to manipulate me like a puppet on a string.

It’s not so much a fear, as in…..a knowing.

You just did not 2 minutes ago.

You just did it again!

You know, that sounds quite enticing right about now.

And I love……..I’d love to see you die in a fire.

Great I’m glad we could wait 6 years to do this. Seriously, I really appreciate it.

Because you did say one thing and do another, but thanks for trying to turn it back around on me.

You should join a 12 step program. Step 1: Admitting you have a problem.

Yeah, to learn how far you could push them before they came after you with an ax.

Somehow I don’t think sarcasm is the right word. More like cynical euphemism. We don’t want to accidentally misuse words now.

No, all women are crazy, moody, senseless and bored, you’re an entirely different breed.

I appreciate you reminding me of that again and making me responsible for your feelings. It’s really nice to be reassured, seriously…..please die.

Translation: "I haven’t changed, I’m still a coniving bitch who uses people, and hopefully you’re still a sucker, because I’ve been craving a nice guy, and you’re just puuuuurfect."

You’re right, people don’t stop learning. Those who learn from the past, never stop learning. Remember the past? Yeah we talked about that a few minutes ago. You know what else I’ve learned? I’ve learned that when I put my hand on a hot stove, that I’m going to get burned. When I let you into my life, I’m going to get emotionally raped, and then you’re going to blame me for it.

No, what you need is to be chemically spayed so you don’t breed and bring other retards like yourself into the world.

Good, I’m glad. More is better, better is good.

I see what you did there. You’re a tricky one. No seriously, go fuck yourself.

God I hope you mean it.

No, you created a work of fiction. Something tells me it’s not going to be a best seller though. Keep your chin up kid.

You are the weakest link, …..seriously. Please swallow a handfull of sleeping pills.

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this is going to be confusing as hell since i don’t remember half of the things she has done.

i have been a member to this trance website for about a year and a half and there was a female member who was also around where i live. (well, i live in nj and she lives in ny) anyhow, we started talking this june and i was talking to her everyday for about 2-3 years and we got so close that we used to tell each other all the shit that was happening in our life. i got to see her more than like 4-5 times in trance events that were happening around the city so i eventually met her.

after talking to her for couple of months, i noticed that she was flirty and that she was flirting with almost everyone from the website. after couple of months, i finally asked her for her msn ( i didn’t wanna ask her for a long time since the websites messaging system was awesome) so she told me that she was having a problem and that she was never able to go on msn. she also told this to several people from the website.

so around november, there was a big event (armin van buuren) and the night before that she told me that she would make out with me and she promised me that we would hang out at least for 10 minutes and dance and do other things so when i got there, i saw her with her friend and this other guy who was a promoter. she got in for free and she was basically with him the whole night and she didn’t even hang out with me. ever since that day, we started having this drama with her and we always used to fight but then end up talking to each other meanwhile, she told me and everyone else on the website that she didn’t have her phone since june.

out other fight was again after this huge event on thanksgiving. i was talking to her the day of the event and asking her if she was going to attend it and she wasn’t so sure about it. at the same time, she was talking to this other kid from nyc thru guestbook messaging which is where anyone can see what they type to each other. he invited her to over his place with her friends and 5 minutes later, she told me that she was pretty sure that she wasn’t attending it. couple of months ago, i found out thru someone else that there were rumors about how she gave him head and it was obviously that night. we once again got in a fight about why i wasn’t able to hang out with her even tho we were that close. eventually, we ended up talking. i also heard thru other people about how she was fake/flakey.

i don’t remember the other shits she has done to me but the last thing she did to me was like 2 weeks ago. someone hacked her myspace and sent me all her comments to her cousins ( i had her on my myspace but not her cousins) and aim away messages ( she also had me blocked on aim) and some of her comments consisted of talking to her cousins saying (give me a call……i’ll text you in the morning ..etc). before this hacking thing happened, she promised me that we would finally hang out wednesday which was 2 days after the hacking thing. so i flipped out on her saying what kind of fake bitch she is and how i was always stupid to go back to her and how she was just playing games and how i would make a topic about her and let everyone know what kind of piece of she is. she deleted me on myspace saying that i hacked her thing and then she was only online on the website for only like an hour or two everyday even tho she was online for hours before this happened.

so i started talking shit about her everytime someone mentioned her name and she wrote me a message about how i was being immature and bunch of shit. just 2 days ago, we started talking again and she promised me that we’re definitely hanging out next week.

i’m really confused. i had feelings for this girl ever since the beginning which is the main reason why always went back to her i do think that she is fake but then i don’t wanna accept it. why would she waste her time with me for hours every day for the past 6 months? i understand that she might have had me blocked on aim since she probably wanted to separate her real life friends with her friends from the website and the messaging system was really awesome (kinda like aim and other stuff) so i was okay with that but then why would she not give me her number? who wouldn’t have their phone since the summer? i also don’t get the fact that she is still talking to me after cursing her out and telling her bunch of shit in my last messages. i’m really confused.

i look like a freaking retard still talking to her after all but i have feelings for her and i’m just confused with what she’s trying to do. (i told her that i had feelings for her in my last message when i flipped out on her) and now i’m really wondering if she really is going to hang out with me next weekend.

Btw, i’m 19 and she’s 18. i forgot to mention that she e every time she goes clubbing and she pretty much tried everything.
it’s like i fucking lost my virginity to her lol i go back to her no matter what she does and she still keeps talking to me. i was never a jealous type of person and ever since i started talking to her and of course met her, i freaking changed.

she’s driving me to insanity. she’s on my mind every single second. i can’t even work anymore, my boss always asks me who i’m thinking off. i also got insomnia and i can’t go to sleep before 4 even if i have to wake up at 7 for work
she said she would make otu with you?? uhh

well heres what you do, either quit that forum and find a new one…. or just IL+1 her.

you dont need her shit, and if you dont think about her, it wont be a problem…..
and dude, if you had feelings for this girl by just meeting her over the net, the feelings you are having are not real to her, they may be real to you, but she doesnt care.

you really should stay away from this girl if shes whoring it up on the net anyway.. you want a girl who likes club promoters? no you dont. thats called a trashy club whore…..

u deserve better and will get it someday, once you put her behind you
You really need to move yourself passed this. She’s totally played you for a fool, and it seems that she’s done this before.

You’ve grown too attached to someone who obviously doesn’t care enough about you to even tell the truth or commit to even hanging out with you for 10 fucking minutes at a concert.

It’ll be best for you to simply forget her, like Yuppy said, IL+1.

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